576 replies to this topic

[Roland]

SethAbercromby, on 30 July 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

And what does that make you? That sounds like the sort of elitist bullcrap you get from self-entiteld hardcores. If you think yourself as a good player, learn some frickin humility.

- a filthy casual

In your haste to get defensive, you misunderstood my post and the context of the conversation.

You should perhaps read the conversation, and then apologize for the ridiculousness of your response.

To help you better understand it, note that i pointed out that most veterans were in fact not the super awesome players than some are claiming them to be, and that the fact clan mechs are rolling inner sphere mechs is because certain clan mechs are in fact the best mechs in the game.

The idea that people who bought clan mechs are better is utterly without basis. Hell, there are tons of players who are explicitly bad, and who bought clan mechs for the advantage they give, to try and boost their terrible play.

Again, this is why pay to win is bad. Because it taints your victory.

When i drive a clan mech, it's not because i earned it. It's because i paid some money. And when i drive my twolf or ryoken and score a thousand damage and 6 kills (which happens with absolutely absurd regularity), it's not because i suddenly got miraculously better. It's because those mechs are absolute beasts.

And for someone to not recognize or admit such things to themselves is tragic on some level. And the reality is, those people who deny the strength of certain mechs, while proceeding to drive those mechs and clean up on them, are pathetic... Because they KNOW they are lying, and somewhere deep in their heart they know why. Because they like having an unfair advantage. Because they need it.

And that little voice... They can push it down, it's still there. Some part of them recognizes the truth, no matter how hard they deny it.

[CeeKay Boques]

Fyrerock, on 30 July 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

I was playing for an hour today on the clan side and I observed some strange things from the IS side. For one many of the IS pilots either charged by themselve into multiple clan mechanical making easy kills. Or they would stand in the open not moving or twisting and keep fighting till they died. Many of the clan mechs were using lasers, and with the way the IS mech's were playing it was easy to get max damage from lasers.

I seen a highlander engage a TW in a brawl in the open with 3 other clan mech's in weapon range. Or an atlas not moving or twisting with 5 clan mech's in close range. Or even better 2 IS mech's not moving from starting location and not twisting as 4 clans mech's open fire.

Another good point. Clan Mech speeds are set, and so they almost have to work at really separating. An IS Mech can have any speed, and you've all seen the dismemberment.

Roland you're missing the point. Do you think that the great pilots are playing with IS mechs at 3pm in the afternoon, or still enjoying whats fresh and new with clan mechs, having played 87 bazilion games with thier old standards already? You're the one that should "get real". You need to ask yourself if one pilot makes a difference, and if not, how many.

Roland's theory is that everyone who played at 3pm sucked, and only the worst played in Clan mechs because they need any edge to win. I'm sorry that the better, non spending 3pm on Wednesday pilots couldn't quite defeat the massive armor and long range of the Clans.

Maybe they are op, maybe they aren't, I haven't been able to tell, they're all targets to me and I don't play group competitive level. I'm just speaking to the screenshots posted, and why the results would be skewed, and not really reliable data. You're bitter about some other mw or life thing and its leaking in here.

[Roland]

No dude, my statement is that your claim that the only reason the clams absolutely ROLLED the inner sphere mechs in basically every single game that anyone reported, isn't because the clan pilots are awesome is absurd. Instead, it is because the clan mechs people tend to play most (like the twolf), are extremely strong.

They didn't consistently stomp the inner sphere because they just happen to suddenly all be super awesome pilots.

My statements about pilot skill weren't that people piloting clan mechs are automatically bad. Rather i was pointing out that merely driving a clan mech doesn't mean you are automatically GOOD. Because there are tons of terrible pilots who bought clan mechs. There wasn't any skill test to hand over your cash for them.

Edited by Roland, 30 July 2014 - 07:48 PM.

[SethAbercromby]

Roland, on 30 July 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

And that little voice... They can push it down, it's still there. Some part of them recognizes the truth, no matter how hard they deny it.

I can't really say anything about that little voice. I've only got the Kit Fox because I was and still am horribly short on cash but I wanted the preorder benefits including the invasion colors, of which invasion green has become one of my favorite colors.

Anyhow, given that, I'm "forced" to play my IS 'Mechs consistently so I've seen the matches from the "recieving end of the scale". And my personal deduction is that Clan 'Mechs are really only dangerous if you let them fight on their terms and that the still underated LB has evolved into a dedicated clan killer once they have exposed internals. Sure, that's not for clans exclusively, but those huge ST bullet catchers make my job pretty easy.

IS 'Mechs are good. Clanners might be a little better, but they're far from OP or P2W from my personal observations. Good players will always mop the floor with players that are less so and the Clan 'Mechs provide invaluable tools for those players, but that doesn't exclude IS from having their own brand of unique tools that are invaluable to other players.

[Roland]

Those big side torsos make your job easy, eh?
OK, here is a little primer in damage soaking for people who don't understand it.. Which apparently is a huge number of people.

With my twolf, when you kill a side torso, i don't die. But that's only the beginning.

Because of the way damage transfer works, when you shoot that DEAD torso, do you know what happens? It transfers HALF to the center. So right there, i get magical damage sponge powers. But it gets even better, because that damage doesn't transfer to my center torso internal structure. It transfers to my ARMOR. So basically, of you hit my dead torso, it's like you hit my center torso, only with magically reduced half damage.

I WANT you to hit my side torsos when I'm in a clan mech. Not only do you have to destroy all of my side torso armor, and then its internals, but you then have to destroy TWICE the armor and internals of my center torso before i die, due to the damage reduction!

This is why the clan mechs are so incredibly tough, when played by pilots who know how to drive then correctly. There are tons of bads who don't know how to soak and will just stare at you while you core them, but those guys are just wasting their mech.

[wanderer]

The worst part is that players don't remember how to kill "zombie" types.

You don't shoot out the torso. You aim low and you kill the legs. Gimp a Timber Wolf and it's a clumsy stumbling target while you chew the other leg away. Ditto the lights. And a Dire Wolf minus a leg is even less able to bring guns to bear than it's normal whale-like mobility.

Add in that many players downgrade leg armor and you have yourself ideal scenarios for anklebiting.

Edited by wanderer, 30 July 2014 - 09:00 PM.

[Sandpit]

Adiuvo, on 30 July 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

I wasn't saying heroes was OP, I was just using it as a counterexample to the reasoning the people saying 'clans are all veterans!!' are using.

you cannot insist that there are more new players on the clan side or even remotely even. It's impossible. Every single new player who drops in this game the first few times is IS, every one of them. Then there's allllllllll the new players testing it out before buying anything. Then there's alllllll the new players who are still just goofing off and there's alllllllll the new players wanting nothing more than go dakka dakka into teammates for pure spite and aren't going to spend money on that

then
there's all the new players that have bought clan packs

there's just no way you can insist that the second group is anywhere near as large as the first. I'm not stating one way or the other on clans being op. i'm pointing out that anyone not acknowledging that the first group is vastly larger in number than the second simply isn't being realistic and reasonable.

wanderer, on 30 July 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

The worst part is that players don't remember how to kill "zombie" types.

You don't shoot out the torso. You aim low and you kill the legs. Gimp a Timber Wolf and it's a clumsy stumbling target while you chew the other leg away. Ditto the lights. And a Dire Wolf minus a leg is even less able to bring guns to bear than it's normal whale-like mobility.

Add in that many players downgrade leg armor and you have yourself ideal scenarios for anklebiting.

ask my teammates how often my mighty stalker is nothing but a head
on a stick
on two healthy legs
with one functioning LL

but shhh, I like those players. They inflate my Elo

[Adiuvo]

Sandpit, on 30 July 2014 - 09:43 PM, said:

you cannot insist that there are more new players on the clan side or even remotely even. It's impossible. Every single new player who drops in this game the first few times is IS, every one of them. Then there's allllllllll the new players testing it out before buying anything. Then there's alllllll the new players who are still just goofing off and there's alllllllll the new players wanting nothing more than go dakka dakka into teammates for pure spite and aren't going to spend money on that

then
there's all the new players that have bought clan packs

there's just no way you can insist that the second group is anywhere near as large as the first. I'm not stating one way or the other on clans being op. i'm pointing out that anyone not acknowledging that the first group is vastly larger in number than the second simply isn't being realistic and reasonable

This is true, there will be more players playing IS mechs. My point is that it's not significant enough to make a difference in the small amount of time that IS vs. clans was on and given the number of stomps that occurred with clans overwhelmingly the victor.

[Jeb]

I missed the event, but I have been leveling up some Blackjacks over the last few days... I still do not think clan mechs in general are as over powered as people say/think...

There are a few issues though...

1) 1-2 shot kills (may be fun for the people doing this, but it's not fun to stick your head around a corner and die (or if your lucky just lose an arm or something) This isn't a clan issue per say, but I find it's the biggest thing that ruins a match for me when it happens...

2) The long range that the clan lasers have... this could also be seen as a map design issue... I find there are too many maps that the clan mechs can get up high and cover most the map with very little cover for the enemy to approach. I can only imagine if the entire team had clan mechs vs IS mechs as the IS mechs would not be able to move into their effective ranges without losing a lot of armor.

I think the laser issues came up more once people got their elite skills unlocked, as I didn't feel the lasers were that big a deal in the first few weeks, probably due to the heat, and I was playing IS mechs as well as clans


3) The TW is a bit too fast. I don't' care what the fanboys say, its' as fast as the clan mediums/lights pretty much... and is one of the top heavies in the game... It would still be one of the top heavies if it was bit slower...

[Kilo 40]

until/if PGI releases some numbers, all these "I witnessed a ROFLstomp during IS vs Clans" comments are just meaningless anecdotes.

[Anjian]

worm4981, on 30 July 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

Happend quite a few times today. Looks like this:

Good. Total annihilation of the sphere scum stravag.

[GalaxyBluestar]

nice to see pgi does ninja carpet pull under the playerbase, wonder how many new players are convinvced of how horrible balance is, P2W, now?

nice that telemetry will be based on 12 v12 module spam, team play compositions, elo's and whatever other interference the matches have, so scientific when there's no controls.

oh well we all knew clans would be nerfed into the ground when c-bills come, pgi have just built up their backgorund excusses for it now. expect a lot of "telemetries" to explain why your packs got ruined come oct-nov

EDIT: interesting figures when looking at posted screenshots in this thread. hows the tonnage in this test guyz?

Spoiler

makes a difference? wonder how many other varibles influence this "test" we should have stars vs lances and stuff but just how reliable is PGI's telemetry? oh and this one is interestingly the closest tonnage matchup.



so really what are the conclusions? it's all screwed up.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 30 July 2014 - 11:51 PM.

[Sandpit]

Adiuvo, on 30 July 2014 - 10:12 PM, said:

This is true, there will be more players playing IS mechs. My point is that it's not significant enough to make a difference in the small amount of time that IS vs. clans was on and given the number of stomps that occurred with clans overwhelmingly the victor.

so more stomps might not show a correlation to the number of new players on the other side?

[Widowmaker1981]

A few things heavily skewed that test

1) All trials are IS

2) there are only a few clan mechs, and the popular ones are HEAVY (TBR and DWF). almost every single clan v IS match had a 300+ ton weight advantage to the clans, due to there being 4-5 TBRs, 4-5 DWFs and the rest made up of a smattering of SCRs, NVAs and WHKs.. this is the main factor imo

3) there is no denying that clans win the extreme range war, IS really dont have an answer to C-ERLLs at 1100m+ ranges, and a lot of maps lend themselves well to long range. i played one game on alpine where the IS team were content to sit on the main hill and fight a snipe war with the clan team, at 1200m. guess what happened? However IS brawl better (imo) - the one game i played, on river city, that devolved into a brawl with no sniping phase? 12-4 to IS

4) I think IS players gave up, largely.. i saw so much terrible fail.. like letting me walk out in a direwolk in front of 4-5 mechs, and barely get shot at all while i blew things up one by one. that DOES NOT HAPPEN, normally id be dead in 3 seconds flat.


all that said, i do think clans are a little more powerful, and IS need some help. personally the road i would go down to redress that balance would be the quirk system. buff all the IS mechs with chassis quirks that fit the 'ethos' of the mech involved. keeps all the flavour, even adds some, and doesnt break anyones toys. Also i think the Timberwolf could possibly use some stronger negative quirks.

[Mazzyplz]

Jeb, on 30 July 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

I missed the event, but I have been leveling up some Blackjacks over the last few days... I still do not think clan mechs in general are as over powered as people say/think...

There are a few issues though...

1) 1-2 shot kills (may be fun for the people doing this, but it's not fun to stick your head around a corner and die (or if your lucky just lose an arm or something) This isn't a clan issue per say, but I find it's the biggest thing that ruins a match for me when it happens...

2) The long range that the clan lasers have... this could also be seen as a map design issue... I find there are too many maps that the clan mechs can get up high and cover most the map with very little cover for the enemy to approach. I can only imagine if the entire team had clan mechs vs IS mechs as the IS mechs would not be able to move into their effective ranges without losing a lot of armor.

I think the laser issues came up more once people got their elite skills unlocked, as I didn't feel the lasers were that big a deal in the first few weeks, probably due to the heat, and I was playing IS mechs as well as clans


3) The TW is a bit too fast. I don't' care what the fanboys say, its' as fast as the clan mediums/lights pretty much... and is one of the top heavies in the game... It would still be one of the top heavies if it was bit slower...

clan range is out of control they get us to 90% health before even we can begin to fight

in alpine is what i meant to say...

i was outright sniped once

[LordKnightFandragon]

My guess is its fail ass players vs faill ass players and clan mechs have a few advantages that really help in a 12v12 fight.

Clans have more crap stuffed into the same space and threfore when its gutter dusters vs gutter dusters who know only 1 thing...rush forward and shoot...the one with the most guns wins....sooo, yeah.....Im sure this is more a playerbase thing then clans actually being OP.

Lets see some guild on guild action...

[Jett Hawking]

I used to be a paying customer. I payed for simple things. Camo schemes, colors, a Death's Knell, which was fun.

Now I can't win a single match in my mechs. I tend to play my Thunderbolt which had a 2.5 Kill to death ratio prior to this clan mech release nonsense. Now I almost never even get a kill before a Timberwolf kills my mech. They just outreach, outdamage, out-absorb my mech so badly, and so unfairly(in game terms), that tactics hardly even apply anymore. Even if I survive, I end up facing down at least an entire lance of clan mechs by myself. The fun is totally gone from the game, because I refuse to pay large sums of money that are better off spent saving for my retirement or buying condoms, and having a life. As the horrible majority of this game's pay to win community keep telling me in game, "Don't play."

So I think I am not going to play anymore. Why should I? let the pay to win jerks, pay to fight each other in their private room of jerkdom.

PGI has a failure record in developing this game like Obama has in pretending to be president. I'm done.

[Rebas Kradd]

Roland, on 30 July 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

In your haste to get defensive, you misunderstood my post and the context of the conversation.

You should perhaps read the conversation, and then apologize for the ridiculousness of your response.

To help you better understand it, note that i pointed out that most veterans were in fact not the super awesome players than some are claiming them to be, and that the fact clan mechs are rolling inner sphere mechs is because certain clan mechs are in fact the best mechs in the game.

The idea that people who bought clan mechs are better is utterly without basis. Hell, there are tons of players who are explicitly bad, and who bought clan mechs for the advantage they give, to try and boost their terrible play.

I think you're making the issue entirely too black-and-white in an attempt to back up your point. That would fit with the general tendency of you and the Balance Crew™ to operate off rigid and abstract platforms of reasoning that don't translate into the game.

No, there is no hard and fast correlation between Clan purchases and solid play. But I think it's reasonable to say there's a TREND in that direction, at the very least a weak one. Some Clan buyers are masking horrible n00bery, sure, but when you start using qualifiers like "most" and "tons", I get skeptical. And it will more frequently be on the IS side that we see the one or two n00bs who do the only thing that's required to get their team killed in this slippery-slope deathmatch game: run off on their own, most likely in trial Cataphracts, and act as unintended and short-lived scouts (usually drawing the rest of their lance in the process).

How much more frequently is the question. But I do not think it's unreasonable to assume that this inexperience is happening more frequently on the IS side.

[MischiefSC]

Yes... but...

I spent money on MW:O. Don't I deserve an advantage? At least let me have an advantage for a few months. Certainly no more than half a year.

That's fair... right? I spent MONEY. On a GAME. I should get AN ADVANTAGE. If you didn't spend money on MW:O, you should still play but at a disadvantage. Cuz otherwise my advantage wouldn't matter. So it's totally okay. I SPENT MONEY. I SHOULD GET AN ADVANTAGE FOR SEVERAL MONTHS, AT LEAST.



Right?

[HellJumper]

DavidHurricane, on 30 July 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

So why not buy the clearly superior option?

You have a choice:

A rock
An M1 Abrams.

And you pick the rock, because you have only ever known instant gratification (the rock).

Those who are smart save up for an Abrams and win. The smart and/or the brutal live. The stupid die. Simple law.

i already have clan mechs... timber and direwolf..i stopped after 3 rounds as it brings no fun... its was plain and simple hammering of IS mechs...