576 replies to this topic

[Wrenchfarm]

Fanatic, on 31 July 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

and some more Screenshots

IS vs Clan (Tonnage added)

Spoiler

Bonus IS vs IS (Tonnage added)

Spoiler

just for giggles -

1st screen shot - 1 (C) on the IS team. But also 1 (F) so I guess not every veteran is riding a clan mech.

2nd screen shot - No trials in sight. I see 3 hero mechs in the mix, players invested and devoted enough to but hero mechs, still getting slaughtered. Bonus points for noticing the only Clan mech they managed to take down was a zero damage AFK.

3rd screen shot - same as the first, poster goofed.

Again, I don't see these phantom trial noobs ruining the IS sides chances, I see long term players devoted enough to have founder rides and hero mechs getting stomped by anyone in a clan mech.

But I'm sure it's just the pub lottery working against them. In real comp play, I'm sure a 12 man team of IS players could EASILY take down a 12 man of Clans. They have the strategies to somehow overcome mechs that are twice as powerful and far tankier than them.

[FD Wulfette]

Well I just thought I would voice my two cents. First of all the battles were one sided, However I did discover a funny counter for those clanners who actually followed lore.

Most warden clan handbooks has a passage of said clans codex. (This is where I had fun with it.)
tHE WARDEN CLANS HOLD ROYAL STARLEAGUE MECHS TO BE SACRED.

Most clanners will retire from fights if even one of these mechs are present on the battlefield. Thier codex wont allow them to destroy or even damage a SACRED mech. I found all the sacred mechs in TRO: 2750

1.) Locust The clans loved this scout so much they eventually reworked it to a IIc model saving the original examples for special envoy and for trias of possession.

2.)Orion- Humm the father of the clans the Great Alexandr Kerensky was a Orion Driver only clan wolf dared to IIc the Orion since clan codex states that it was the perfect mech and if it was good enough for the great father then it was more than sufficient for any true blood mech warrior. still to this day only Clan wolf uses a Orion IIc all other clans still field original SL era Orions.

3.) Atlas The great Father Kerensky designed this mech personally, How do you destroy what the great father created.

4.) Thunderbolt- the bulk of the SLDFiE heavy assets were comprised of The old Thuds. General Hazen fist khan of Clan Jade Falcon was noted to be a thud driver

5.) Kintaro Not much to quoted in the source books about the kintaro however it did participate in operation Klondike the re-taking of the pentagon worlds.

6.) Highlander the 732's and 733's were intrigal to the retaking of the pentagon worlds.

7.) Shadow Hawk Was considered another perfect mech, the IIC version wasnt released until the great refusal war. Clan Star Adder still uses these mech for official honor gaurd duty. With its totem mechs providing gaurd for the sacred Hawks.


Mostly this was a fun experiment in LORE the old TT players knew this and I took them apart using Bachall and Zellbriggin I went in with a sacred Orion wich they could not shoot or risk having thier codex beng stricken and thier genetic legacy permanently being destroyed. I pushed this issue and actually witnessed a true Trial of Refusal when a T-wolf shot my orion two of his clan buddies offered trial and executed said timberwolf for abandoning the codex.

When this game goes Community Warfare How will the honor system come into play. i know most people dont know lore or adhere to it. however you can spot the old players when they disengage one of these classic mechs.

[Tharnes]

FD Wulfette, on 31 July 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Mostly this was a fun experiment in LORE the old TT players knew this and I took them apart using Bachall and Zellbriggin I went in with a sacred Orion wich they could not shoot or risk having thier codex beng stricken and thier genetic legacy permanently being destroyed. I pushed this issue and actually witnessed a true Trial of Refusal when a T-wolf shot my orion two of his clan buddies offered trial and executed said timberwolf for abandoning the codex.

Didn't see much lore that day, all Clan-teams trashtalked in every game "how they are going to p0wn noobs" and how easy the wins were.

[Wrenchfarm]

FD Wulfette, on 31 July 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Well I just thought I would voice my two cents. First of all the battles were one sided, However I did discover a funny counter for those clanners who actually followed lore.

Most warden clan handbooks has a passage of said clans codex. (This is where I had fun with it.)
tHE WARDEN CLANS HOLD ROYAL STARLEAGUE MECHS TO BE SACRED.

Most clanners will retire from fights if even one of these mechs are present on the battlefield. Thier codex wont allow them to destroy or even damage a SACRED mech. I found all the sacred mechs in TRO: 2750

1.) Locust The clans loved this scout so much they eventually reworked it to a IIc model saving the original examples for special envoy and for trias of possession.

2.)Orion- Humm the father of the clans the Great Alexandr Kerensky was a Orion Driver only clan wolf dared to IIc the Orion since clan codex states that it was the perfect mech and if it was good enough for the great father then it was more than sufficient for any true blood mech warrior. still to this day only Clan wolf uses a Orion IIc all other clans still field original SL era Orions.

3.) Atlas The great Father Kerensky designed this mech personally, How do you destroy what the great father created.

4.) Thunderbolt- the bulk of the SLDFiE heavy assets were comprised of The old Thuds. General Hazen fist khan of Clan Jade Falcon was noted to be a thud driver

5.) Kintaro Not much to quoted in the source books about the kintaro however it did participate in operation Klondike the re-taking of the pentagon worlds.

6.) Highlander the 732's and 733's were intrigal to the retaking of the pentagon worlds.

7.) Shadow Hawk Was considered another perfect mech, the IIC version wasnt released until the great refusal war. Clan Star Adder still uses these mech for official honor gaurd duty. With its totem mechs providing gaurd for the sacred Hawks.


Mostly this was a fun experiment in LORE the old TT players knew this and I took them apart using Bachall and Zellbriggin I went in with a sacred Orion wich they could not shoot or risk having thier codex beng stricken and thier genetic legacy permanently being destroyed. I pushed this issue and actually witnessed a true Trial of Refusal when a T-wolf shot my orion two of his clan buddies offered trial and executed said timberwolf for abandoning the codex.

When this game goes Community Warfare How will the honor system come into play. i know most people dont know lore or adhere to it. however you can spot the old players when they disengage one of these classic mechs.

Stuff That Never Happened.TXT

[GoManGo]

(Didn't see much lore that day, all Clan-teams trashtalked in every game "how they are going to p0wn noobs" and how easy the wins were. )


I hate to say it but PGI really sceerwed up the clan invasion .

#1 there should have been a new game mode= (Clan Vs IS) with clan being 8 Vs 10 IS mechs matched by tonnage.

like IS= 2 assaults, 2 heavys,4 mediums,2 lights
Clan= 2 assaults,2 heavies,2 mediums,2 lights

#2 Plus all the IS mechs should have been fixed as in hit-boxes and armor there just like paper mechs compared to the clan models.

Edited by GoManGo, 31 July 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[Tharnes]

GoManGo, on 31 July 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

.
#1 there should have been a new game mode= (Clan Vs IS) with clan being 8 Vs 10 IS mechs matched by tonnage.

like IS= 2 assaults, 2 heavys,4 mediums,2 lights
Clan= 2 assaults,2 heavies,2 mediums,2 lights

Most annoying thing about pugs are the numbers of heavy and assaults in each team. 6-8 Timbers don't make for a fun game.

[SethAbercromby]

Roland, on 30 July 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

Those big side torsos make your job easy, eh?
OK, here is a little primer in damage soaking for people who don't understand it.. Which apparently is a huge number of people.

With my twolf, when you kill a side torso, i don't die. But that's only the beginning.

Because of the way damage transfer works, when you shoot that DEAD torso, do you know what happens? It transfers HALF to the center. So right there, i get magical damage sponge powers. But it gets even better, because that damage doesn't transfer to my center torso internal structure. It transfers to my ARMOR. So basically, of you hit my dead torso, it's like you hit my center torso, only with magically reduced half damage.

I WANT you to hit my side torsos when I'm in a clan mech. Not only do you have to destroy all of my side torso armor, and then its internals, but you then have to destroy TWICE the armor and internals of my center torso before i die, due to the damage reduction!

This is why the clan mechs are so incredibly tough, when played by pilots who know how to drive then correctly. There are tons of bads who don't know how to soak and will just stare at you while you core them, but those guys are just wasting their mech.

I think you're missing the point of crippling a 'Mech. If I shoot out that ST, guess what happens, you lose all your weapons on that side. I'm not stupid enough to let a chance like that pass when you still got some armor on your CT. I'm a Stalker pilot, I know of damage transfer by heart, but I also know that losing half your weapons is a big problem in any scenario.

So, Stalker OP? Come on, now you're just tripping over yourself there.

[wanderer]

Quote

Stop pretending, you paid for an advantage and you got it.

Yep. With this MM switch on, you paid to have no True Noobs on your team.
I love the layouts in these. Dragons. Bad old Heroes like YLW that you can tell were baby's first hero (from the sale). I mean, these are teams I cringe at dropping into even IF there was a MM making it 12 Clanners on the other side. They make my noob sense tingle.

Witness how even a few grossly unskilled pilots result in ritualized roflstompings by even an average-skill group with no anchors to potentially drag them down.

Edited by wanderer, 31 July 2014 - 08:44 AM.

[TamCoan]

SethAbercromby, on 31 July 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

I think you're missing the point of crippling a 'Mech. If I shoot out that ST, guess what happens, you lose all your weapons on that side. I'm not stupid enough to let a chance like that pass when you still got some armor on your CT. I'm a Stalker pilot, I know of damage transfer by heart, but I also know that losing half your weapons is a big problem in any scenario.

So, Stalker OP? Come on, now you're just tripping over yourself there.

I get what he's saying about the damage transfer, makes a whole lot of sense when you play vs. people who don't know that. Doesn't work so well for IS mechs with XL engines. Over the past few weeks I've been amazed by what I learn about other players just watching through the observer camera. Most people don't seem to know how to target the mech they are shooting at. Even when they do they don't use the information provided to shoot out the weak spots. I literally watched a twolf fight a stalker with two critical legs and right torso. He refused to shoot out the legs instead focusing on the center torso the entire fight. Even when the stalker shutdown and with half our team typing "shoot out his legs!" he just wouldn't do it. Stalker finally powered back up, cored the wolf and went on to win the match.

Sometimes it's just painful watching.

You have a good point about losing half your weapons and you are correct. However to continue to fire into the lost side torso and allow your target to benefit from the damage soak into CT is leaving the rest of his weapons untouched. I was able to tank a lance in a nova once because of this. For the longest time I had one arm and was still combat effective because I would absorb the bulk of the incoming fire with my missing torso. I finally died after getting reduced to one leg and CT and just used my jump jets to spin around and take side torso shots to reduce incoming damage.

[Phaeric Cyrh]

The whole idea of making the matches even by making them 10-12 or whatever makes sense if you are just trying to balance things out as they are now..

But I ask you, who is going to continue to pilot inferior mechs when the good ones come out for C-Bills? Having a gap in technology that is evened out with numbers of mechs is fine for TT where the player has a macro-view of the battle (you are trying to win the battle, not individual mech matches).. But in a FPS/Simulator the player has a micro-view. Sure winning the battle is nice, but most people care about their personal performance in the game.

I probably fall in line with about 90% of the player base.. I don't give a **** about canon, what reason do we have to stick with IS mechs when we can get one that performs better on the other side?

If you guys want CW to succeed you better be interested in balancing the Clan tech.. Because as it stands now, once they come out for C-bills only the crustiest TT diehards are going to stick with IS.

[Tharnes]

Pugs are freaking horrible right now, 80% clantech. Its getting ridiculous.

[LoneMaverick]

Tharnes, on 30 July 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Well bad players using clans in pugs are much more effective than bad players in IS mechs.
There are really horrible timber players out there, they still do good because of the mech alone.

This ^

If the TBR was the only Trial mech available to new players, retention would skyrocket simply because you can be blind and score 400+ damage in that thing with all but the worst loadouts.

Tharnes, on 31 July 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Pugs are freaking horrible right now, 80% clantech. Its getting ridiculous.

I'm going to guess that's because the IS took their ball and went home.

Edited by LoneMaverick, 31 July 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[Sir T]

wanderer, on 31 July 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Yep. With this MM switch on, you paid to have no True Noobs on your team.
I love the layouts in these. Dragons. Bad old Heroes like YLW that you can tell were baby's first hero (from the sale). I mean, these are teams I cringe at dropping into even IF there was a MM making it 12 Clanners on the other side. They make my noob sense tingle.

Witness how even a few grossly unskilled pilots result in ritualized roflstompings by even an average-skill group with no anchors to potentially drag them down.

Hey guys, we are leet because we are serious players because we paid real money for our mechs, and the other side are losing because they are crap because they have unserious players and we know that because they paid real money for their mechs!

Clanners are hilarious in their denial.

Ah well, time to go and lose horribly because I paid real money for my Misery, protector, jester, pheonix mechs, dragon slayer etc etc and even a Champion Mech, and therefore I am an unserious player. LOL!!

Edited by Sir T, 31 July 2014 - 09:24 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Phaeric Cyrh, on 31 July 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

The whole idea of making the matches even by making them 10-12 or whatever makes sense if you are just trying to balance things out as they are now..

But I ask you, who is going to continue to pilot inferior mechs when the good ones come out for C-Bills? Having a gap in technology that is evened out with numbers of mechs is fine for TT where the player has a macro-view of the battle (you are trying to win the battle, not individual mech matches).. But in a FPS/Simulator the player has a micro-view. Sure winning the battle is nice, but most people care about their personal performance in the game.

I probably fall in line with about 90% of the player base.. I don't give a **** about canon, what reason do we have to stick with IS mechs when we can get one that performs better on the other side?

If you guys want CW to succeed you better be interested in balancing the Clan tech.. Because as it stands now, once they come out for C-bills only the crustiest TT diehards are going to stick with IS.

Despite what PGI may or may not think, they will have to add mixtech, or they'll never sell another IS hero again.

[Tharnes]

Just try to bring new players into the game right now.
They get alphakilled by 6 timberwolfs in their first game, and ask how to get this op thing.
"60$ only, k I'm done." Seriously impossible to get a sane person to starting in the game.

[Piney II]

New players getting rolled didn't just start with the Clan mechs.

[Der BierVampiR]

Vassago Rain, on 31 July 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Despite what PGI may or may not think, they will have to add mixtech, or they'll never sell another IS hero again.

That would be the easiest (and best) way to balance the game. And we`ve had mixed tech in mw: mercs to.

[Tharnes]

Piney, on 31 July 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

New players getting rolled didn't just start with the Clan mechs.

But them getting rolled real-money only mechs is a new thing. Its a huge difference.

[Samual Kalkin]

Tharnes, on 31 July 2014 - 04:50 AM, said:

Clans are simply much more forgiving to play besides better performing.
Sure some diehard IS vets with 2 years in their meta-optimized heavy/assaults can take on a Clan heavy/assault and hope to win, but your average IS pilot just gets stomped really hard.

I'm not a 2 year vet, and I'm not very good at MWO. Still, I can take on any clan heavy/assault in my NON-meta-optimized FatAss and win. It's not easy, but they are by no means unbeatable.

What I see is that the ballless playstyle of cowering and hoping the enemy is as ballless and makes the first mistake plays right into the strengths of the clan mechs.

I had 2 wins in the IS vs Clans, and both were teams that had balls and attacked instead of cowered. Both teams hit the flanks of the Clan mechs, and one absolutely pounded what was the Clan front when they all turned to hit the flank attack.

[Wispsy]

So I got the impression (only glanced over first 10 pages) that a lot of people think the reason for all of these stomps is because the clan pilots are simply more skilled at the game and everybody who pilots IS during this period is simply trash and terrible pilots?

Well phew that explains why in my 2 hours of playing I saw the clan mechs lose a maximum of 4 people total...including the disconnect guys that occasionally showed up.

And by god did I see an awful lot of ABSOLUTELY AWFUL players in clan mechs scoring 300-400 dmg and being on the winning team...

Experience and money in this game do not actually equate to skill...there are founders who are almost definitely (I would put a lot of money on it and I am not rich) less then 1000 Elo who play more then casually...
Get over yourselves. :/


It is a little like seeing you have 8 mediums and 4 lights vs 8 assault and 4 heavies on skirmish(as occasionally happened before)...sure as a light/medium you can pull off 400 damage as a waaaaaaaaay better then average pilot but your team is all going to get rolled and do less then 100 damage no matter how good they are...because to get that damage out, the enemy were shooting your buddies first. (little hyperbole but it is the same principle...would you just turn around and say those light/medium pilots are terrible ?? absolute ****??? no...because they did not have much of a chance to actually do anything and the only one who does is just most coward or most lucky).

Edited by Wispsy, 31 July 2014 - 09:43 AM.