950 replies to this topic

[tm10067]

This is totally inappropriate. Nerf your nerf machine already.

I'm IS pilot btw.

[daedalus0813]

I am sorry, but this is like taking a Spider and nerfing the max engine size down to where it only runs at 100km/hr...... Its completely ******** to increase beam duration, quadruple the heat scale penalty, AND the amount of lasers fired before heat scale.

[Vertigo 1]

Scout80913, on 07 August 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

First; thank you for taking the time to walk us through your thought process. I don't agree with the conclusions, but I appreciate the information very much.

Slowing the projectile speeds of PPCs seems like a really funky way to get to your desired end state. It's a Particle Projection Cannon...something just feels wrong about seeing ballistic slugs moving as fast as (or faster) than an energy bolt. Heat and previous nerfs to projectile speed already reduce their usefulness. My concern is that making the projectile as slow as this is going to effectively kill them as a weapon. Why would I bother using something so onerous? The heatsink investment alone, to use just one ERPPC effectively, is already obnoxious.

If you're trying to stop people from sniping at extreme ranges with PPC's, why not just increase the rate at which the projectile loses damage past its maximum effective range. That would seem more logical and more palatable than watching ballistic rounds fly faster than energy bolts.

Setting the limit on Clan ER Large Lasers to 2 seems a bit egregious to me as well. Several designs were built around firing two or more of these at the same time. You're other adjustments should be sufficient to do the job you want.

My two cents; thanks for reading.

I was going to join in on the flaming and point out the utter confusion I felt while reading the apparent "fixes" to these weapon systems as outlined in Paul's post, but this pretty much sums up my thoughts. Also it seems obvious to me that this will cause dual Gauss to be the new go-to loadout.

Edited by Vertigo 1, 07 August 2014 - 10:34 PM.

[VXJaeger]

PGI, you should really think that to whom are you developing this game. With all these nerfs right from the beginning you are just slowly and inevitably turning MWO to average-Joe bullsshit, and nobody wants to play that.

Edited by VXJaeger, 07 August 2014 - 10:36 PM.

[Shakespeare]

Praehotec8, on 07 August 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

I can live with all of these changes except the change in ghost heat from 3 ERLL to 2. It makes stock builds running 2 ERLLs much worse overall.

Ghost heat was implemented originally to combat excessive boating, and while it is somewhat inelegant, it does work for that purpose. Unfortunately, now it appears to be a flat out band-aid fix for anything that it can be applied to. Sorry, but I think most people would not consider carrying two of a weapon to be, "boating."

As many others have said, the ERLL nerfs were just too aggressive, and largely unwarranted. If you really wanted to discourage people from boating them with ghost heat, just make it so that firing 3+ simultaneously generate very high heat levels.

I truly don't understand what the change is intended to curtail - Isn't ghost heat supposed to be our tool against boating? I can only assume that's what this is for, since in every other respect the CERLL was just another laser. Lasers have always toed the line between 1st tier and 2nd tier, so to speak. It was a smart move from the beginning to make them damage-over-time, but it's taken lots and lots of tuning to make them something worth equipping.

Now here we are, with decent-to-good lasers on both sides (with clans having a sheer boating advantage), and the solution to keeping them in line was to make the CERLL ineffective?

Don't sugar coat it. that's what a doubling of the burn time does. 2 full seconds is a freaking eternity for a laser. Don't even include it in the lineup if you don't want it used at effective range.

It's been said a million times: Don't tune a weapon's stats based on the boating impact - all that does is ruin its usefulness as a single weapon, while necessitating/justifying the boating. I'll take 10x ghost heat over this. at least then we could actually use the laser. Clan lasers were supposed to be different - slightly harder to use, slightly more range. This just pisses all over that. I'm definitely confused.

Oh, and this is at least the 5th time that a weapon system has been changed in 3 different ways all at once without testing the impact of any one change. That is not a scientific way to go about things. at. all.

Just show us where the bad energy weapon touched you, ok?

[Navid A1]

Quote

[color=orange]Next up, the Clan ER Large Laser.[/color]

[color=#00FFFF]The Clan ER Large Laser has been on the nerfing radar for a while. It is firing in almost heat neutral Clan heavy/assault builds. It also has a very long range with a relatively short beam duration. To fix this weapon and make it have the firing attributes we would expect it to have, the following changes have been made.[/color]

• C-ERLL beam duration increased from 1.5 -> 2.0 seconds.
  
• C-ERLL base heat value increased from 8.5 -> 9.0.
  
• C-ERLL minimum heat penalty (number of weapons fired simultaneously that will trigger Heat Scale) decreased from 3 -> 2. This means you can fire 1 for free, but firing 2 or more will incur the Heat Scale penalty.
  
• C-ERLL heat penalty (Heat Scale multiplier) increased from 3.0 -> 12.0.

Unbelievable... just unbelievable...
i can't even find the proper words to describe how bad these nerfs are...

you capped the free CERLL to 1 AND duration to 2 s AND increased heat to 9... AAANNNDDD the heat scale from 3 to 12??
you think its funny???

3-4 CERLL are pretty common among clan assaults... the effect is even with chain fire you can not avoid ghost heat... you just have to wait 2.5 seconds until the first beam is cleared...!!!!.... 2.5 seconds..!

There are times when i want to accept the heat penalty to survive..... not blow myself up..!

Edited by Navid A1, 08 August 2014 - 12:46 AM.

[pwnface]

Oh god I've been waiting all day for my ban to wear off to say Paul you are almost as ******* ******* as Niko. You got 50+ pages of players saying don't implement these changes and you do it anyway. After browsing just a few of these pages, every single player who has left a comment disapproves of your changes. People are saying they will quit the game, people are asking for you to be fired, people are begging you to reconsider, but none of this matters because you don't even read these forums anyway. This game WILL die because PGI doesn't listen to it's community.

To everyone else, I missed you too guys!

Edited by pwnface, 07 August 2014 - 10:39 PM.

[PitchBlackYeti]

C-ERLLs beam duration 2s? Might be a bit over the top, maybe cut the beam time of IS lasers to 0,75s/0,5s pulse instead? On the other hand it will be nice to watch continous laser beam firework show when you couple it with the obligatory chainfire for CERLLs

[Too Much Love]

Thx for spoiling the game once again.

It's terrible. 2 ll ghost heat? Great! Now clans have no LL, no ballistics, no PPC. Feel free to use SRM, LRM and med lasers.

Why when PGI makes some progress Paul appears and ruin everything?

[Texas Merc]

Darth Bane001, on 07 August 2014 - 10:21 PM, said:

I'm just gonna delete this from my tabs so I dont feel compelled to check up on this game anymore this is my last time ever logging in, I simply cant stand this game anymore, clans are the reason I got into this game, now I have no reason to play it anymore, not that I was going to actually spend anymore money but now the fun will be completely out, the balance just keeps getting worse.

No new maps in a very long time, no new game modes, no cw I will never see anything else I'm just done.

Uninstalling and...have fun.

Me and RB are holding you to this brother.

[badaa]

can u stop with the stupid **** and just fix pinpoint

[Nightfire]

I am seriously laughing my ass of right now!

Yet another train wreck, give me my popcorn!

PPC projectile slowdown, welcome to where the rest of us were over 18 months ago Paul. The Gauss charge mechanic did nothing useful. Ghost heat is an appalling concept that defies logic and any decent game mechanic design principle. Projectile speed, not the best approach but significantly better than what you've used in the past. The only problem is, you've polluted your game with these ridiculous mechanics and now you're so married to them that you can't divorce yourself from them.

C-ERLarge: Ghost heat? Really, you're still clinging to that asinine mechanic to be helpful in some way? All you need to do is tweak the heat values until it hits a point you're happy with. Why all this messing about? The beam duration is also something useful to play with but you'd have to keep heat in mind. However, you're all over the place and changing far too many variables at once.

God I'm glad I gave up playing the sorry excuse of a B-Tech game this turned into. It makes it far easier to be amused at all of the harmful insanity than it is to be angry and frustrated.

The problem is Paul, you guys are at war with your players. You view them as opposition to be brought to heel and made to play the game the way you envisaged. What happened to giving the player the tools, tweaking them in minor adjustments to ensure fair play and then be amazed at what they do with it?

Someone pass me some more popcorn!

[Roadbeer]

Texas Merc, on 07 August 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

Me and RB are holding you to this brother.

Meh, I uninstalled long ago, I just didn't announce it.
Well, Russ did say that y'all would get groups back if I didn't play. So consider it a service for the greater good.

Also

[Past]

Well its great you point out heavy and assault clan mechs can afford to fit the heatsinks to make C-ERLL OP what about the slow moving clan lights that rely on range to survive how is that balanced?

[BLOOD WOLF]

• C-ERLL beam duration increased from 1.5 -> 2.0 seconds.-Noooooooooooooo
  
• C-ERLL base heat value increased from 8.5 -> 9.0.- this I dont really mind, I need to work on my heat management so no big deal.
  
• C-ERLL minimum heat penalty (number of weapons fired simultaneously that will trigger Heat Scale) decreased from 3 -> 2. This means you can fire 1 for free, but firing 2 or more will incur the Heat Scale penalty. fair enough, I fire 2 of each at any time. I also tend to chain fire more anyways
  
• C-ERLL heat penalty (Heat Scale multiplier) increased from 3.0 -> 12.0.----NOOOOOOo

[Tezcatli]

I do think making ghost heat on just 2 is a bit heavy handed. At least reduce the amount of penalty it incurs for just two. So it's still useable to a degree.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Tezcatli, on 07 August 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

I do think making ghost heat on just 2 is a bit heavy handed. At least reduce the amount of penalty it incurs for just two. So it's still useable to a degree.

if they reduce the penalty then I can work with that.

[Ryvucz]

Internal Testing =/= Public Testing.

You've got a Public Test Client/Server, use it please.

But of course, if you're going to do it anyway, just remove the Test Client/Server altogether.

[Shakespeare]

I really didn't believe people when they told me that after a few weeks of fun, clans were going to be nerfed into the ground.

Clearly they just meant that Paul's vacation would soon be over.

I really do understand how this line of thinking came about. The question needing an answer was "Clans are kicking a bit too much butt. Why? and how do we fix it?"
But instead of taking in the whole picture - how the mechanics of the game from day one have contributed to clan mech power despite significant reduction in weapon lethality... namely, hardpoint bloat, scaling heat capacity based on sinks, and instant weapon convergence....
No, instead of taking the long view, someone got tunnel vision and looked solely at clan tools and thought "hey, look, they can use lots of energy weapons. "

I'm sorry for the triple post, it's just the stupidity of it all is hitting me in stages.

I just..its..I can't....

GAHH!!

[charov]

This seems a bit drastic however yesterday I played a couple of friends and out heaviest mechs carried a total of 15 CERLL and no other weapons..