950 replies to this topic

[GunnyKintaro 01]

I'm done buying crap from you guys... I buy this crap and weeks later you flipping nerf every flipping thing.... What are you thinking... I bought the flipping clan pack for what they where sold as not what you feel like changing them too every other flipping week.... Well You win again PGI... I've been a fan for along time but you keep screwing me over Everything I buy.... So I quit... I will not bother buying anything from you at all... Thanks for the good times .....

[Peiper]

You guys at PGI are ignoring the fix. This was brought to my attention via the latest Ekman interview on NGNG. While they didn't actually talk about convergence, which is at the core of Homeless Bill's plan, it would make the game far more battletech, and take care of your stupid ghost heat mechanics at the same time. Nerfing weapons is not the answer to your problem. Your problem is in the foundation of how weapons work, especially in concert with each other. READ the following article to know what I'm talking about.

http://www.qqmercs.com/?p=2780

[LeoTib71]

This is pure bullshit, PGI style.

[MalodorousMonkey]

The CERLL probably needed a nerf. But this?

As someone above already mentioned, this further nerfs the kit fox. Dual CERLL is one of the only decent builds for that chassis, and while the heat penalty may not kill it, (I'll have to play it to see how viable it is with the changes) I find it really unfortunate that this nerf is hitting chassis that are not out of balance.

The CERLL will now have a 2 second duration, and a significantly increased heat scale. Why do you need to throw in a max alpha limitation of 1? I understand trying to bring weapons like this into balance versus the inner sphere version of the weapon, but this just seems incredibly drastic. Why can't we just try one or two of the measures currently planned? See how it works out? If it still needs nerfing, it can be nerfed further. But my initial impressions are this is going to make it a somewhat unpopular weapon. That impression may end up being wrong, but that is my impression.

I personally don't see why they don't just increase the heat. The HPS is currently lower than its IS counterpart, despite the fact that it gives out more damage. Why not keep with lore and increase the base heat to be more than the IS version. Maybe 10.5? More if that isn't enough?

I'm less angry with the PPC change simply because it's at least addressing something that is a general problem. PPC/gauss combos (arguably) needed a nerf. But I just don't like the idea that other, non-meta builds are going to be hit by this as well.

I like to think of myself as a fairly easy-going guy that doesn't just come on here and rage like an animal about whatever. So hopefully it means something when I say I'm fairly angry with the CERLL changes. Maybe release of the patch will change my mind, but I'm not holding out much hope.

[numbTriggerFinger]

PGI staff meeting for balancing weapons (minutes of meeting)

Boss (also known as a moron) : guys, the ppc is soooo OP

Staff : yes boss we agree...

Boss (also known as a moron) : What we gonna do about it?

Staff : Listen to what the community has to say?

Boss (also known as a moron) : No we wont.. But pretend like we are gonna.

Staff : Ok.

1 week later....

Boss (also known as a moron) : ok, so i've come to a decision.. we are gonna go full ****** on the ppc and reduce the speeds down to about 40%

Staff : But..

Boss (also known as a moron) : No buts! who was that? YOU ARE FIRED! I am a genius! dont you lot of misfits ever question me ever again!


-end-

[chemp43]

This is absolutely ridiculous. The clans came out and since then you have turn them into INNERSPHERE mechs vr. 2.0.

Congratulations PGI, you've killed a game with long-standing lore and tradition.

Whats next? Clan's may only fire while hopping on one leg while simultaneously shutting down?

[mp00]

Well like most I do not like change from what I am used to... but I understand the need for continuous tweaking. The only thing I truly do not like is the ghost heat for firing 2 CERLL. I would rather have a much larger recharge time for firing 2 at once then 1.

I do on the other hand like the post, the explanation, the other options considered. That kind of info is great and probably stops dozens of "how it should have been done" threads... or at least gives them a head start on there master plans.

Like it or not I appreciate the explanation.

[W i L d F i R 3]

MWO use to be a really good game. You continue to let us down though. This is the worst of all the NERFS you have implemented. Why doesnt PGI worry about getting community warfare rolled out, instead of balancing. If you would create the game you promised, then you can tweak the weapon systems.

All this nerf is doing, is making other weapon systems OP now. Havent you figured that out yet, that whatever you nerf, the next best thing just becomes the meta.... Its like the Drug War, you are never going to win this.

[Red1769]

The ERLL...wow...back to the drawing board on some of my builds...I could have seen a slight tweak, the normal heat increase would have been ok...but as other said, basically put the weapon into uselessness thanks to that beam duration...thank goodness none of my Dire Whales uses it...but my other Clan mechs...

The PPC changes...I can see maybe a little bit, 1200 for the IS standard...but not the ERPPC. That ER means Extended Range...that means at least 700 meters plus. When I get back to my Stalker, I'll adjust for the standard PPCs in mounts, but good gracious, ER's were already borderlined useful...I'd be shocked to see an IS version after this.

Edited by Red1769, 07 August 2014 - 06:58 PM.

[Adiuvo]

Since all of you are going nuts about the 12x in the CERLL change...

calculate out HPS with the increased duration. Take into account the average amount of heatsinks a clan mech runs, thanks to 1 crit ERLLs and 2 crit DHS.

Have fun.

[CHH Badkarma]

So after two years of waiting I finally get my warhawk. Now you force me to practice the time honored tradition of lag shooting. Joy. How bout you at least give me one testical back and get rid of the stupid splash damage concept. Cause ya know, running a quad er ppc mech is so much fun with you have to lead a target by 300 meters lol. Here is another balance idea, take one leg off my mech next. Oh wait, I will still hand freebirths their heads.

Shame most devs do not play more, I can think of one I would love to cut down in a public (or private match) just to vent some frustration.

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 07 August 2014 - 08:08 PM.

[shameless]

So is it too late to get a refund on my clan pack, because at the rate things are going they're going to just be sucky less modifiable IS mechs.

[Kiiyor]

I guess the PPC changes are ok, I just won't use them any more, but the CERLL ghost heat change is faintly ridiculous. It takes a lot of skill to hold those beams on target, especially at longer ranges. The increased duration would go a long way to balancing the weapon, but the ghost heat change just makes the heat system more complicated than it already needs to be.

[Noth]

I'm pretty sure that we had PPCs at those low speeds before and they sucked, no one used them. The other option would had been much better for desyncing the guass and PPC. It was also not complex. remember people thought that the charge mechanic was complex, but people adapted.

I also have issues with only testing internally and with high competitive players. What is balanced or unbalanced up there is often not the same for the rest of the player base. Typically if something is overly effective at high level play but not, or even weak at low level, there is probably a design flaw in said thing. And no, internal testing does not represent the rest of the playerbase.

Further, you have single handedly made the CERLL pretty much worse than anything else in the game. There is almost no reason to take one over several of the CERML lasers now. You could have pushed one of the ERLL changes and had the desired effect of reducing their effectiveness (you know small changes), but you literally clubbed the weapon to death.

Edited by Noth, 07 August 2014 - 07:00 PM.

[Mystere]

Sigh! Players should really just grow some balls and toughen up instead of running to PGI and have things destroyed.

And what is the lesson for today and for all time:

Whining incessantly does indeed produce results!

Edited by Mystere, 07 August 2014 - 07:18 PM.

[Deadeye254]

Well you have just changed the new meta to Daul Guass(which I HATE BTW) at least before I had options but not now thanks man.

[Homeless Bill]

Glad you went with PPC speed over that weird mechanic, but it's not going to do a damn thing to the Cheese Whale... Whatever though. I guess close enough?

And even though you're getting a lot of hate for rapid changes and just doing it live, I personally commend you for that part, Paul. Patching it in mid-week and seeing what happens? I can dig it. I disagree with the changes you're making, but you're doing it quick, and you gave us a post explaining what's going on and why you're doing it. That's really all we can expect.

___________________________________________________________________________

And for anyone curious in case this hasn't been done, here's what this really means for C-ERLL:

* The Heat Scale is an exponential lookup table.

* ExtraHeat = BaseHeat * HeatScale[NumWeaponsFired] * Multiplier

* 2xERLL = 9.0 * 0.08 * 12.0 = 8.64 extra heat - almost an extra ERLL's worth

* 3xERLL = 9.0 * 0.18 * 12.0 = 19.44 extra heat - painful

* 4xERLL = 9.0 * 0.3 * 12.0 = 32.4 extra heat - toasty

Edited by Homeless Bill, 07 August 2014 - 07:40 PM.

[FupDup]

Mystere, on 07 August 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Sigh! Players should really just grow some balls and toughen up instead of running to PGI and have things destroyed.

Ans what is the lesson for today and for all time:

Whining does indeed produce results!

When it comes time that I actually agree with something -- anything -- that Mystere writes, it means that somebody, somewhere, dun goffed pretty damn hard.

[Dymlos2003]

I lol at all the butt hurt. Learn to adapt. I'm also sure that this will not change much.

[Stingersun]

well thank you PGI. you first try to make lights leg themself while making no one able to leave the ground without having soft weaponry, and now you decide that all the money that we spent into clans is being used to burn us. you have made the ERLL basicly worthless to the clans now and PPC half useless in general. be Proud of screwing us over. atleast then one of us will be proud of this game

[color=#00FFFF]The limit of 1 Clan-ER Large Laser for free is assocated with the findings from above. Even with this new minimum heat penalty setting, firing 2 Clan-ER Large Lasers still makes the weapon just start to blip on the heat meter. As always, we will be monitoring this weapon system very closely as to its effectiveness on the battlefield.[/color]
[color=#00FFFF]also where are you getting this kind of heat data? hate to tell you, but not all mechs carry a warhawk number of heatsinks[/color]

Edited by Stingersun, 07 August 2014 - 07:12 PM.