367 replies to this topic

[VXJaeger]

Instead of being weapon, C-ER LL is now a flashlight.
LOL GJ!

[Avarice1of2]

Let me say this right now I am glad that the ghost heat trigger is gone, but I am no where near satisfied. I knew from the start that it was pretty much a bait and switch to make PGI appear as white knights despite the PPC nerf being a bit heavy. Here is my solution to the issue of gauss + PPC. It is to make it so the PPC travels damn fast. I mean fast enough that unless light has a noticable delay to being seen that the PPC hits instantly, and leaves a trail of crackling blue lighting between it and target as the air is still charged. Do not get fooled by the new paint job PGI is still wearing their black night armor. PGI still needs to get rid of the 2 second beam time, and make it more in line with IS beam time. Why because at 1.5-2.0 seconds a light mech is a just asking to get nailed by dual gauss. We could undo all the nerfs to the C ERLL and not have it be over powered with one of two options.

1. Give us an actual tutorial with an instructor npc, that has us do training missions and teaches us key points, to reinforce learning these points there must also be a harsh penalty for not understanding it by the end of the lesson. Making the test at the end of each lesson mission hard to pass if you do no perform at least on an average level. Also making the final test hard to pass if you do not fully grasp some of the concepts.
A) how to maneuver.
B )how to keep track of our torso twist
C) how to use the cross hair's for arm and torso weapons.
D) how to hit moving targets with projectile weapons(all ACs and PPC and Gauss)
E) how to use LRMS with lock on and eyeballing it incase you can not get lock on.
F) how to torso twist to soak damage.
G) how to work as a team

2. Making it so seasoned warriors have a flock of cadets under them, and that they receive a bonus determined by how well their cadet performs. These bonuses may include a reflected fraction of the cb, exp (per mech frame), and g xp the cadet earns in matches. Also offer incentives for working one on one with your cadets or holding a group training session like adding a +15% cb and exp boost to Teacher and Cadet's who drop together.

Edited by Avarice1of2, 11 August 2014 - 01:17 AM.

[Fury Pilot]

Sandpit, on 10 August 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

https://twitter.com/...535179246268416

well since this plays right into this latest round of nerfs I felt it was relevant to the feedback

I don't see how the PPC is/was an issue considering that a PPC is probably doing about 1 pt of damage at 1000m,

[JayKay17]

The intention of reducing the projectile speed of the ppc was to desync them from other pinpoint weapons and therefore address the problem, that a mech gets crippled by one high damage pinpoint alpha.
While the speed reduction adresses the problem at long ranges (where this problem was not so dramatic) it does almost to absolute nothing in the mid and short ranges. Playing a medium or light mech you still get one shot killed or legged by the same weapon combinations than before and in this ranges is where combat is mostly decided.
And as you can see about 65 to 75 percent or even more players drop in heavy or assault mechs. And wonder why? This mechs can at least survive a double ppc + gauss hit on one location and they are the only ones that can carry this weapon combination.

So what was accomplished with nerfing the PPC:
on the good side:
- heavy hitting pinpoint ppc + gauss combination is more difficult to use on long ranges and therefore more damage spread is likely.
on the bad side:
- Several medium and light mech builds are reduced in effectivness cause, they cant hit with their mainweapon on long ranges.
- the heavy hitting pinpoint damage problem is not adressed in the short and mid ranges.

Conclusion: while the change brought little, it nerfed the already underpriviliged weight classes,. My opinion, look for another solution that really adresses the problem.

That was my two cents.
cya on the battlefield
Yours JK

Edited by JayKay17, 11 August 2014 - 03:28 AM.

[Reno Blade]

I look at it this way
2sec cERLL with high Ghost heat:
- Skilled players will be able to bring damage at extreme range like before. (1000+meters)
- Skilled players will put CERLL into arms to use them for brawling without armlock, because you need the precision to keep the beam on target.
- Skilled players will never shoot 3 or more together
- Skilled players will use more backup weapons rather than boat only cERLLs.
- anyone else will state the weapon is useless now and won't try to work on his skills or builds.

slower PPC/erPPCs:
- Skilled players will train hard to hit targets
- Skilled players will close the range to effective range (540m / 630m), rather than maximum range
- Skilled players will put PPCs into arms to for better leading.
- Skilled players will take more backup weapons for medium and long ranges
- Skilled players will work with their team to make best use of the new effective ranges, like LRM users.
- anyone else will state the weapon is useless now and won't try to work on his skills or builds.

There are a lot of options for builds.
Mix it up, train to be more flexible, try new tactics and adapt.
disclaimer: This post is not meant to insult people, but rather to push people to try to improve their horizon (be it skill or perception).

[MechB Kotare]

Sandpit, on 10 August 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

citation?
that's news to me, I've never read that anywhere. Could you point me to that statement from PGI?

After many attemts i failed to find the refference in all PGI's Community warfare updates.

I think its clear though why are they testing Clan vs IS balance.

[MechB Kotare]

Reno Blade, on 11 August 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

I look at it this way
2sec cERLL with high Ghost heat:
- Skilled players will be able to bring damage at extreme range like before. (1000+meters)
- Skilled players will put CERLL into arms to use them for brawling without armlock, because you need the precision to keep the beam on target.
- Skilled players will never shoot 3 or more together
- Skilled players will use more backup weapons rather than boat only cERLLs.
- anyone else will state the weapon is useless now and won't try to work on his skills or builds.

slower PPC/erPPCs:
- Skilled players will train hard to hit targets
- Skilled players will close the range to effective range (540m / 630m), rather than maximum range
- Skilled players will put PPCs into arms to for better leading.
- Skilled players will take more backup weapons for medium and long ranges
- Skilled players will work with their team to make best use of the new effective ranges, like LRM users.
- anyone else will state the weapon is useless now and won't try to work on his skills or builds.

There are a lot of options for builds.
Mix it up, train to be more flexible, try new tactics and adapt.
disclaimer: This post is not meant to insult people, but rather to push people to try to improve their horizon (be it skill or perception).

Sklled player, no matter how skilled they are, wont be able to use the waepon efficiently now, in smaller maps.
Skilled player already knows that cERLL are now only usefull in maps like ALpine and Tourmaline.
Sklled player knows that only way to use efficiently cERLL now, makes them engage beyond 2km to even hope of delivering full burn damage.
Skilled player knows, that people talking about skill of players arent really skilled....
Skilled player who knew how to use cERLL properly will use his brain, and go for cLPLs instead, upon realizing that aside of slight range difference, they are all in all better than ERLLs.

PPCs

Skilled player will realize that training worthless PPCs is a waste of time now.
Skilled player who could use previous peeps with deadly precision will turn into lasers or cUACs, because they know how useless PPCs are comparing to them now, and they will be right to do so.

Stop talking about skill. Some things are beyond adaptation, such as efficient usage of current cERLL for example.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 11 August 2014 - 05:41 AM.

[Fire and Salt]

IMO, a lot of clan vs. IS balance for the sake of CW will depend on whether or not we will know the map before the drop starts.

If we don't know, the large laser is a bit weak now, with the CLPL being a better choice when the tonnage is available.

If we do know beforehand, expect to see lots of large laser usage on Alpine, and expect CERLL island campers on crimson straits.



Adding more urban maps could solve the problem. Inner sphere mechs are pinpoint damage beasts once the AC20 gets into range.

[Gorgo7]

HA! Well it seems that these changes have been hurting the meta abusers and they are whining!

Ohh, poor baby...don't cry! Cower behind your team mates and pine for the days you could outrange everyone and get magnificent scores! It was all so easy!

They are gone now and GOOD RIDDANCE!

OP ClanERlarge, brought in line at last! Truly skilled players have noticed a difference but are performing similarly. The rest are crying because the brawl option is much less.
PPC...sigh
ERPPC...never was any good except as singles on med and lights.
Clan ERPPC still very useful.

[xe N on]

Played a lot matches today with my DS ... loadout 2xPPC, 1xAC10, 2xSRM4. Played fine, had no trouble in hitting things at optimal range - more issues with hit detection.

PPCs sync quite fine with AC10 now.

In general, good game change to make sniping at higher range a little more tougher.

Edited by xe N on, 11 August 2014 - 08:20 AM.

[Kanin Zeta]

Make my meta build 100 ton mech able to core out an Atlas in one shot at 1500 meters with negligible heat buildup so I can do it again immediately. Oh, and make other mechs shoot marshmellows. TY, buh-bye.

[Ren Kurogane]

I wonder when did 4xC-ERLLs Warhawks, 2xC-ERLLs Adders and 1xC-ERLL Kitfoxes considered as "meta-build"? As much as i hate C-ERLLs' changes, i still use them. It's just, i feel sorry for my teammates when their asses get burned if i don't careful enough . C-ERLL now isn't better than C-LPL, not because of players' skills, but because of it's own spec. I'd prefer if they increased base heat and heat scale multiplier, not the duration as medium and light mechs get the worst end of deal compared to heavier mechs (getting beaten black and blue on their face).

With these changes, i'm not surprised that heavy and assault mechs pilots can reach more >30-40%, while medium and light mechs pilot can barely reach >20-30% when i play. I guess....working as intended^tm?

PPCs...well, just get used to it. I rarely got nice score with my Catapult K2 anyway, might as well re-training . And i can still snap-shot-kill with my Shadowhawk, with some few adjustments (no, not PPC+AC Shadowhawk). Personally, i only used PPCs for scaring away my opponents at +1km. Well, if i can hope, i'd prefer if they leave the projectile speed at ~1200 as an offset to it's high heat spike and not-so-much damage at range.

VXJaeger, on 10 August 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

Instead of being weapon, C-ER LL is now a flashlight.
LOL GJ!

C-ER Laser Pointer! now, if only it's red-colored...

[Steel Scout]

After having played the changes with the PPC and the CERLL I have the following opinions on it.

The ppc change is ok, might need a bit more speed but its still usable. The CERLL should have its beam duration brought down maybe to about 1.75. Still more than before but not as much as now. Also Lower the ghost heat penalty, it is really gruesome. Prior to the patch if I fired 4 ERLL's I would spike from nothing to about 50% now I get pretty dang close to shutting down. Which happened several times during a match where I would get excited and fire my second set of 2 ERLL's not to long after my first and completely shut down even though my heat was around 30% ish. So I would say to lower the ghost heat penalty to something more reasonable between 6-8 probably.

[MechB Kotare]

Gorgo7, on 11 August 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

HA! Well it seems that these changes have been hurting the meta abusers and they are whining!

Ohh, poor baby...don't cry! Cower behind your team mates and pine for the days you could outrange everyone and get magnificent scores! It was all so easy!

They are gone now and GOOD RIDDANCE!

OP ClanERlarge, brought in line at last! Truly skilled players have noticed a difference but are performing similarly. The rest are crying because the brawl option is much less.
PPC...sigh
ERPPC...never was any good except as singles on med and lights.
Clan ERPPC still very useful.

It seems you are so desperate to reply with old retarde-d replies such as "cry moar" "QQ moar" without actually reading anything of what others suggested.

It seems to me, that you got so butt fkd by cERLL, that you just want them nerfed to the ground because you are simple minded sh*tbuild user, who wants those build to be upersuper, excluding the fact that they are... not.

It seems to me, that you were crying about "meta" before, well let me tell you. Soon you will cry about other meta again.

If your read the whole post, you would understand, that those "whiners" are simply proposing far more logical balance numbers, making the cERLL actually usefull while still nerfed to its pervious state.

Read all replies before you got retardwise.

-------------------

Its because all these idiots, crying "P2W!" "METAAA!" "OPnerf" when being unable to adapt and instead of trying just crying all over game chats and forums, that PGI is listening to. Proof how noob friendly PGI wants this game to be. Partially i understand that. At the end, its not that much about game quality rather than game profiting.

As i know you probably gonna reply with another retardwise hatefull comment Gorgo7, i will repeat myself (because you obviously didnt read before you went d*ck) and tell you that cERLL 2s beam duration is massive overnerf. Heat increase and heat scale increase were good way to decrease overall DPS of the game.

Range decrease would be also perfect way to nerf the weapon, for all those "FTWimbeinghitfrom1kdistanceIdontknowwhattodoOP!nerfmetaQQ!" guys like you.

And no, its not about brawling.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 11 August 2014 - 12:00 PM.

[Gorgo7]

MechB Kotare, on 11 August 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

Yacking...
.

Well, I seem to have hit a nerve.

Your score down a bit? Not as many kills?

What meta was I complaining about? Post an example.

Bad luck old man. Bad Luck!

The mod had to happen for the CERLlaser. Otherwise you must reduce the burn time on the CLPlaser which is the ERLlasers red headed cousin. It weighs two tons more has the same heat does the same damage in 1.3 sec. Did you know that or is you nose shoved so far up your xxx that ALL you can smell is your own xxxx? 'cause that's all you post.

Would you like to see the Clan pulse lasers hitting in .8 sec? What alternative do you have?

Hmm? Is that it?

Pathetic. You've got nothing.

I play everything. I'm an experienced middle range player. What the hell are you?

Punk.

[MechB Kotare]

Quote

HA! Well it seems that these changes have been hurting the meta abusers and they are whining!

Quote

What meta was I complaining about? Post an example.

Really? Do tell me more. Mister skilled mid player, that farts to his mouth in his second (retardwise) reply.

Quote

The mod had to happen for the CERLlaser. Otherwise you must reduce the burn time on the CLPlaser which is the ERLlasers red headed cousin. It weighs two tons more has the same heat does the same damage in 1.3 sec.

The "mod had to happen yes, but not the way it was made regarding beam duration. I've no idea what are you babling about 1.3s, i'd be totally fine if it was back to its original 1.5s (you would know that, if you read all replies before replying yourself). I'd be fine if they nerfed the range from 890m to 775m-800m. I'd be fine if the damage was nerfed from 11.4 to 10. W/e could care less, as long as the weapon was ***** viable weapon, not only in low tier pub pugs matches that you seem to be comming from.

I play competitive. Everything you say seems like words of long term crying pug who was getting roflstompted by builds he thought of a meta. So i could really care less what you say.

Gorgo7, on 11 August 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

.
.
.
I play everything. I'm an experienced middle range player. What the hell are you?

Punk.

Do you play competitive? Hm? If not, then it doesnt matter to me who are you.

Pug.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 11 August 2014 - 12:17 PM.

[SVK Puskin]

I like the speed reduction, this will help fast mechs to avoid PPC shots at long distances and also it will reduce the pinpoint alpha. So thumb up.

[SVK Puskin]

Steel Scout, on 11 August 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

After having played the changes with the PPC and the CERLL I have the following opinions on it.

The ppc change is ok, might need a bit more speed but its still usable. The CERLL should have its beam duration brought down maybe to about 1.75. Still more than before but not as much as now. Also Lower the ghost heat penalty, it is really gruesome. Prior to the patch if I fired 4 ERLL's I would spike from nothing to about 50% now I get pretty dang close to shutting down. Which happened several times during a match where I would get excited and fire my second set of 2 ERLL's not to long after my first and completely shut down even though my heat was around 30% ish. So I would say to lower the ghost heat penalty to something more reasonable between 6-8 probably.

What do you expect that they allow laser boats to snipe all the time without overheating? No dude forget about it, these times are over!!! You have to adapt to new changes. These kind of changes will increase match duration and survivability which is only good becuase it is not fun if the match end within 5 minutes.

Edited by ENS Puskin, 11 August 2014 - 02:05 PM.

[Ren Kurogane]

ENS Puskin, on 11 August 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

What do you expect that they allow laser boats to snipe all the time without overheating? No dude forget about it, these times are over!!! You have to adapt to new changes. These kind of changes will increase match duration and survivability which is only good becuase it is not fun if the match end within 5 minutes.

funny enough... if the problem was they didn't want too much actions happening +1km between each team (russ' twitter), why didn't they just increase the base heat to ~9-10, heat multiplier to ~6-9 and decrease range to ~750-800m...leaving duration alone. Increasing the duration would just punish light and medium mechs at staring contests more than heavy and assault mechs and making it ineffective for brawling.

While i'm grateful that the limit for firing C-ERLL still at 2, the duration alone made my Adder's face black and blue. Also, i still got overheating with the previous C-ERLL's spec, in my Adder and Warhawk. Maybe i was too "trigger-happy"....

And...it's been bugging, i always thought that PPCs were long range weapons (as in specialized for sniping) with their high base heat and 10 damage...or was i wrong?

[SVK Puskin]

Daehoth, on 10 August 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Are you guys daft....? Clanners...IS pilots? At the moment....affiliation counts for absolutely NOTHING...nada...zip......because PGI hasn't delivered depth to the game or the community warfare module yet...yes i know it's coming....

So how about we see what sort of crap....oops i mean result that PGI actually delivers before we go debating about things such as 'clanners' and IS pilots...it's a waste of time and spit at the current moment....

I was only pointing out the loyalty, nothing else. I can tell you for myself that i am loyal to the Federated Suns but i think i am minority in this case. I am curious what will the community warfare bring to the table.