143 replies to this topic

[Heeden]

CocoaJin, on 09 August 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

But if the Atlas can't get a chance to get a shot off between twisting to soak up damage, won't he just eventually die since the DW isnt going to stop shooting for a bit. Eventually the Atlas will have to choose to face the DW so he can shoot back, or die twisting right?

So maybe the Atlas figured it was better to go down shooting, than to go down twisting like it was 1959.

The Atlas had 3 friends watching, apparently too much in awe of the DW to blow it into pieces. In that case the Atlas's best plan would probably be to get an all-over tan, maybe lose an arm or two, at least until the DW is down a side torso.

[Wispsy]

Now I think the understanding of the op about this game is lacking...agreed..BUT


Have you seen how quickly you can kill an Atlas (Torso twist..ya ok...ok if you are bad at aiming I guess an Atlas can torso twist from you a little bit) with 5uac5s and 5medlas? It is a little slower but you can also do it in two 96 point alphas from gauss/large/med build...or hell the mass uac20/10 build that literally doubletaps to kill an Atlas??

Guys Atlas cannot torso twist fast enough for that (if you aiming at the head you know, do not be aiming slightly to the side on the mid ct or something then ya they can throw the arm in the way) and even if they do they just lose a side super quickly then die within 5secs anyway...

Not an issue of convergence though...convergence will not save that **** the raw dps is just tooo high with that many hardpoints and heatsink tonnages.

Edited by Wispsy, 09 August 2014 - 09:27 PM.

[Haxburch]

I pilot DDC and also DWF (prime) , if i meet a DWF in my DDC  then the ongly setup i fear is 2PPC+2Gauss setup if i am not the first who can shoot. MY DDC has 2xUAC5 +2LL +3LRM5 .
With a konstant stream of LRM5 chain fire i have anough supression fire to blind the DWF and ALL i say ALL want to break Line of View ASAP. With the 2UAC5 and LL i aim for one wapon arm /side torso not for the CT . I dont stop my moving anytime ! I allway fire while moveing and my DDC is faster then any DWF and has more agility then a masterd DWF.
I dont know what u do but i dont fear DWF .

Edited by Haxburch, 09 August 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Haxburch, on 09 August 2014 - 09:41 PM, said:

I pilot DDC and also DWF (prime) , if i meet a DWF in my DDC then the ongly setup i fear is 2PPC+2Gauss setup if i am not the first who can shoot. MY DDC has 2xUAC5 +2LL +3LRM5 .
With a konstant stream of LRM5 chain fire i have anough supression fire to blind the DWF and ALL i say ALL want to break Line of View ASAP. With the 2UAC5 and LL i aim for one wapon arm /side torso not for the CT . I dont stop my moving anytime ! I allway fire while moveing and my DDC is faster then any DWF and has more agility then a masterd DWF.
I dont know what u do but i dont fear DWF .

It boils down to build. I actually bought a new DDC the other day and did the exact same build you did for medium range fighting and it will tear the DW enough for me to either kill it or damage it enough and blind it to reposition so i don't get torn to shreds.

my originally DDC brawler though can be torn to shreds due to lack of longer ranged weapons, if i'm not careful enough. However if the situation is right, I have sufficient options for positioning and cover, I can usually kill the DW, unless as stated its the meta one, he will usually take out either of my torsos leaving me with much less firepower..

[Kaspirikay]

OP, did you just stare at the DWF the entire fight? If you don't torso twist, you'll lose vs all clan mechs. But if you do, you'll find Clan weapons are pretty subpar vs IS weapons.

As posted right above me, I run a DDC brawler, 3 SRM 6, 2LL and an AC20. This standard build won be many fights against many clan mechs.

[YueFei]

CocoaJin, on 09 August 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

But if the Atlas can't get a chance to get a shot off between twisting to soak up damage, won't he just eventually die since the DW isnt going to stop shooting for a bit. Eventually the Atlas will have to choose to face the DW so he can shoot back, or die twisting right?

So maybe the Atlas figured it was better to go down shooting, than to go down twisting like it was 1959.

If the DWF is using DoT weaponry, then the Atlas simply twists and turns until his weapons are off cooldown, makes a snap shot, and continues twisting while his weapons are recycling.

If the DWF is using PP FLD weaponry, that's PPC/Gauss in the Clan arsenal. There'll be gaps in the DWF's salvos that the Atlas pilot can try to squeeze his shots off within. Or, if the DWF waits for that CT shot, it'll take him 4 salvos to plow through the Atlas CT, but it's not so straightforward if the Atlas pilot twists and jukes to try to fake out the Gauss charge. For example, the Atlas fakes twisting back for a shot, and the DWF pilot charges his Gauss, only for the Atlas to twist away to shield again. The DWF pilot can either let the Gauss charge fade, or squeeze off a shot. If he squeezes off a shot, it goes into the Atlas's arm. If not, if the Atlas pilot anticipates this (knowing the DWF pilot will charge up the Gauss, and then mentally timing when the charge fades out), he'll have a 0.75 second window in which to hit back while the DWF pilot can't fire the Gauss

In return, the Atlas has enough firepower to plow through the DWF in about 4 salvos, and his weapons are more straightforward to use in a brawl.

Twisting for survival does not mean you are fully defensive. A good pilot will find opportunities to shoot back in between twisting and turning. That's what makes some of the best pilots so dangerous. They are tough to bring down because of their solid defensive piloting, but they also push out near their mech's max damage output potential at the same time.

[TimePeriod]

• Torso twist.
  
• Sacrifice an arm.
  
• Use cover.
  
• Attack with your team.
  
• Mind your head, LRMS rolling in.

The list goes on...

[Corvus Antaka]

This is a deep flaw in Battletech, something that the HTAL unfortunately was never designed for.

[Sarlic]

Biglead, on 09 August 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

Torso. Twisting.

CT is still a joke. Balance.

And dont bother looking at HardP.

[CDLord HHGD]

Dirkdaring, on 09 August 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Stopped right there. No it didn't. Not unless the direwolf was friendly...

QFT. Neither of those machines go anywhere in 30 seconds....

[Angel of Annihilation]

OMG. Clan ER LLs have a fricken 2.0 second burn time now. Even an unmastered Altas could probably twist completely around in that time frame. Well not quite but I bet you could turn all the way to the right, then back all the way to the left completely spreading all that damage across not one, not two, not three, not four but FIVE different surfaces.

I just have to say it. It is players like the OP, who don't have the skills necessary to pilot their mechs successfully, that are why we have all these stupid nerfs in the first place.

[Tharnes]

A Metawhale is worth at least 2 equally skilled Atlas-Mechs, maybe even 3.

[Sarlic]

Viktor Drake, on 10 August 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

OMG.  Clan ER LLs have a fricken 2.0 second burn time now.  Even an unmastered Altas could probably twist completely around in that time frame.   Well not quite but I bet you could turn all the way to the right, then back all the way to the left completely spreading all that damage across not one, not two, not three, not four but FIVE different surfaces.

I just have to say it.  It is players like the OP, who don't have the skills necessary to pilot their mechs successfully, that are why we have all these stupid nerfs in the first place.

Your talking garbage.. Jump back in your meta mech please.

Edited by Sarlic, 10 August 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Sarlic, on 10 August 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

Your talking garbage.. Jump back in your meta mech please.

What is a meta mech nowadays?

I'll assume it isn't the WubShee yet.

[C E Dwyer]

atlas pilot needs to twist

[Jiang Wei]

Mcgral18, on 09 August 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

So, someone stared down a mech with a 1.3+second burn time...twice...without twisting at all?


Well then. That doesn't sound like a competent Atlas pilot.

No, the veteran atlas pilot would have turned his torso to one side, have it blown off in one hit, then turned the other way and have his other side blown off on the second hit, and run around the rest of the game with no weapons while the dire wolf pilot stood there and laughed.

The "ace" atlas pilot however, would have taken one shot at the direwolf and killed him through the cockpit.

The real lesson learned here simply this....

An ace atlas pilot can kill a dire wolf in 1 hit.
A noob dire wolf pilot can kill an atlas in 2 hits.

Balance.

Edited by Jiang Wei, 10 August 2014 - 10:15 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Jiang Wei, on 10 August 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

No, the veteran atlas pilot would have turned his torso to one side, have it blown off in one hit, then turned the other way and have his other side blown off on the second hit, and run around the rest of the game with no weapons while the dire wolf pilot stood there and laughed.

The "ace" atlas pilot however, would have taken one shot at the direwolf and killed him through the cockpit.

What kind of pilot runs 40 rear armour? That's the only potential way, along with not twisting, that you could lose a ST in one volley.

Man, the things people come up with. Double check with Maths please.

[Khobai]

Quote

Torso. Twisting.

even if torso twisting doubled your life expectancy, which is pushing it, that would mean you live 6 seconds instead of 3 seconds.

in other words even torso twisting doesnt amount to an atlas surviving any reasonable length of time.

[Jiang Wei]

Mcgral18, on 10 August 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

What kind of pilot runs 40 rear armour? That's the only potential way, along with not twisting, that you could lose a ST in one volley.

Man, the things people come up with. Double check with Maths please.

Ive had it happen to me. So yes its real. Double check the math yourself.

[YueFei]

Mcgral18, on 10 August 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

What kind of pilot runs 40 rear armour? That's the only potential way, along with not twisting, that you could lose a ST in one volley.

Man, the things people come up with. Double check with Maths please.

Yeah, there's 102 hitpoints in one arm alone. Enough to take 2 volleys.

Even from a joke build like the 9 ERPPC DWF, an Atlas can take one of those volleys in the arm, and the arm will still be attached.

The problems with the Atlas has to do with the fact that it doesn't have enough speed to run down a jump sniping Victor to use its short range weaponry. In a 1v1, it can get kited all day until dead. It needs a team to help pin the enemy in place, restrict the enemy's movements, in order to close in on them.

But, a Direwolf is not going to kite an Atlas.

A good Atlas pilot actually has to be very quick to roll his damage intake. Light mech pilots survive by the barest margins with split second reflexes. Being a good Atlas pilot requires the same quickness in thinking and action.