143 replies to this topic

[YueFei]

Jiang Wei, on 10 August 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

Ive had it happen to me. So yes its real. Double check the math yourself.

An Atlas ST has 126 hitpoints in it (84 armor, 42 internals). The max PP FLD a DWF is going to throw at you is probably 90 damage with the joke DireStar 9 cERPPC build. Like McGral said, unless you put near 40 armor on the rear ST of your Atlas, it *will* survive a single volley. More realistically the DWF is going to sling 50 PP FLD at you with 2xPPC + 2xGauss. Even the arm on an Atlas can survive that with armor still intact.

If we're talking about a volley of DoT weaponry, the "alpha" can be higher, but it's spread out over time. Which means even if you didn't react before the shot was fired, you can actually start turning/twisting *during* the shot, and it'll spread the damage.

What you *think* happened to you isn't what actually happened. You were probably shot by multiple enemy mechs.

[Mcgral18]

Jiang Wei, on 10 August 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

Ive had it happen to me. So yes its real. Double check the math yourself.

The hell was shooting you that can deal 114 damage if you had 12 rear armour?

There isn't anything that can do that kind of damage PP FLD. Lasers, if you are a derp and stare them down...still won't be able to...


Mind telling us what this magic Dire Whale had loaded?

[Aresye]

Jiang Wei, on 10 August 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

Ive had it happen to me. So yes its real. Double check the math yourself.

I think you're the one who needs to double check the math. You probably got too zoned-in worrying about the Dire Wolf that you didn't see the other 3 mechs shooting at you at the same time.

Mcgral18, on 10 August 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Mind telling us what this magic Dire Whale had loaded?

I as well am interested in hearing about what loadout this is in which a Dire Wolf can do >114 damage in 1 alpha and yet SOMEHOW has the ability to not be shutdown >2min and SOMEHOW is so heat efficient that it remains a threat after firing said alpha.

[Tharnes]

Funny thing is an altlas currently garantees your team to lose, it can't even fight a stormcrow and hope to win. Not even speaking of timber / whale-metas.

[Mcgral18]

Tharnes, on 10 August 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

Funny thing is an altlas currently garantees your team to lose, it can't even fight a stormcrow and hope to win. Not even speaking of timber / whale-metas.

Do you feel the same way about Banshees? Is your assault piloting terrible?

Because my assaults don't really have these issues you're talking about...not even my Awesomes.

[Tharnes]

Mcgral18, on 10 August 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

Because my assaults

Timber/Whale only must be really hard work. Poor soul.

[Mcgral18]

Tharnes, on 10 August 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

Timber/Whale only must be really hard work. Poor soul.

wat?

Mind elaborating on this fragment?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Sarlic, on 10 August 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

Your talking garbage.. Jump back in your meta mech please.

Don't own one single meta build mech. Closest I got is a Timber Wolf with dual ER PPCs however since it doesn't mount JJs it isn't a meta build.

What I am talking it truth. Even a slightly skilled pilot should have been able to twist enough to spread out the damage over 3 sections and end up taking most of the damage on the arm.

Against a boated C-ER LL Direwolf (or whatever) the Atlas should have immediately twisted to either the right or left taking most of the damage on the arm, then while the enemy beams recharge, faced the enemy, unloaded and then twisted to now to the other direction so that the fresh side take the next alpha. Then it is wash, rinse and repeat. This gives the Altas probably about 200-300 effective armor that a Direwolf has to punch through. The Dire Wolf on the other hand can't rely on twisting to save its CT, therefore most everything is going to connect with the CT which means roughly half the effective armor of the Atlas.

Now of course this depends alot of builds. If the Atlas is also relying on lasers, well he is going to be more exposed but still twisting will be effective. If however the Dire Wolf is mounting pin point weapons like Guass or PPCs, well things get a bit more interesting because a good Dire Wolf pilot will wait until the Atlas twists toward him to fire though if the Altas does it right, he will still likely case at least some of the damage to get spread.

[ShinobiHunter]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

I think the others were kinda in shock at seeing the ddc drop in what could be construed, in a PUG, as an instant.

I only PUG, I've never played a group match, and I have never seen 3 players completely stop in shock at the death of an Atlas. It just doesn't happen. You might try to be a bit more believable next time

[nehebkau]

CocoaJin, on 09 August 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

But wait...if the Atlas is torso twisting, is it getting a chance to fire back? With such a short cycle time between DW firing, would the Atlas be required to either torso twist until dead and not shoot back, or shoot back and die in two salvos?

I think that is an important point to make.

ShinobiHunter, on 10 August 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

I only PUG, I've never played a group match, and I have never seen 3 players completely stop in shock at the death of an Atlas. It just doesn't happen. You might try to be a bit more believable next time

The person asked why the others didn't help, I offered my opinion. Did they completely stop? I dunno, I know that there was death spam from the dwf killing people after the atlas dropped and I high-tailed it out of there. Take my opinion for what it is worth. doesn't bother me if you believe my conjecture and without asking the people involved I have no idea on their actual motivation.

You choose not to believe because you choose not to believe. Nothing, anyone, would or could say would change your mind. You choose to disbelieve, because like so many others, you think there is an anterior motive to everything others do that is both shady and underhanded and therefore can't accept that sometimes people just relay the truth as they see it.

I told it as I saw it, people posted on how it could have happened (i.e. DWF builds able to do it) and others posted on what the atlas should have done or could have done. The simple truth is that back-seat driving is the drug of the day on the gaming interwebs. I submit that a 'competitive' player may have made out better on the Atlas, but balancing a game based on the 1% will make the game function about as well as the economy.

Mcgral18, on 10 August 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

The hell was shooting you that can deal 114 damage if you had 12 rear armour?

There isn't anything that can do that kind of damage PP FLD. Lasers, if you are a derp and stare them down...still won't be able to...


Mind telling us what this magic Dire Whale had loaded?

I believe the early consensus in the thread was a 8 CERML + 2 Gauss build putting out 172 damage in 2 alphas.

Edited by nehebkau, 11 August 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[Thejuggla]

Biglead, on 09 August 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

Torso. Twisting.

/thread

[nehebkau]

Thejuggla, on 11 August 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

Biglead, on 09 August 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Torso. Twisting.
/thread

CocoaJin, on 09 August 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

But wait...if the Atlas is torso twisting, is it getting a chance to fire back? With such a short cycle time between DW firing, would the Atlas be required to either torso twist until dead and not shoot back, or shoot back and die in two salvos?

/thread

[Budor]

It does not matter if he exagerated. Atlas vs Dire = 0:1 IS vs Clan.

[nehebkau]

Budor, on 11 August 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

It does not matter if he exagerated. Atlas vs Dire = 0:1 IS vs Clan.

And I didn't exaggerate. I called it as I saw it and while human perception is flawed (perhaps it was 45 seconds not 30 seconds and hell does it matter how long it took them to trundle towards each other?) i do stand-by the basic premise that the atlas dropped from the single direwolf in 2 volleys.

Edited by nehebkau, 11 August 2014 - 10:35 AM.

[Lily from animove]

maybe that atlas should put more than 20 armor into the front center Torsi.

otherwise tell me what direwolf setup two strikes an atlas. there were possibly some gauss involved from far away, or some really stupid ammo loadout decisions.

Edited by Lily from animove, 11 August 2014 - 10:43 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

3 seconds.... TORSO Twist? .... LOL seriously 3 seconds and you say torso twist? ... You ever twist in an atlas? ROTFLOL! Are you a canned response bot?

Yeah, all the time. Direwolves are known to have insane alphas. Why was the Atlas presenting a CT on approach in the first place? They aren't invincible and have had a juicy CT in this game for 2 years now.

[nehebkau]

Lily from animove, on 11 August 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

maybe that atlas should put more than 20 armor into the front center Torsi.

otherwise tell me what direwolf setup two strikes an atlas. there were possibly some gauss involved from far away, or some really stupid ammo loadout decisions.

Not reading the thread FTL.

[Lily from animove]

nehebkau, on 11 August 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

Not reading the thread FTL.

I have read it, but where is said stream, cmon want to see this form the direwofl perspective.

102 CT armor, doubt this really can 2 strike an atlas with an really reliable build. Of course you can make some extreme alpha strike builds but i doubt they are viable for the battlefield at all.
Otherwise a new age of 3 seconds to death meta has begun. and this would have already begun with arrival of the clanners.
This is more like a trollbuild I guess.

On the other side, I dunno it seems not to be a imposibly bad build at all. still full armor and stuff.

but still this requires to not torsotwist for 13,secs and being back CT targetable after 3 seconds for another 1,3 secs. Every light and emdium dies when he does pilot that crappy. So mostly also the atlas's fault.

Edited by Lily from animove, 11 August 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[wwiiogre]

Are any of you an Atlas pilot?

Most of the Atlas DDC damage comes from its torso area. Left torso is usually 3 missiles or 3xsrm6 and the right torso is an ac20. To hit with those you need to align your torso to the target. Which means you cannot twist or you have to twist then reface. A good Dire Wolf pilot has most of his damage in his arms and can face at angles and just wait for the Atlas to turn and then initiate his shot. So yeah the above timeline in a game is correct. Being alone one on one vs a Dire Wolf with an alpha that can be near 100 is folly.

One of my Dire Wolf's has an alpha of 128. And can fire three times before over heating. So this is the norm because there is no convergence. This is the norm because matchmaker says a Dire Wolf is the same as an Atlas. When firepower alone is not near equal.

But the math is not broken. IF the Atlas pilot wants to damage the Dire Wolf he has to face the dire wolf. And because of that alone, it takes less than 5 seconds for most Dire Wolf mechs to core an atlas when in optimal firing distance. Which is nearly double what the Atlas armed with srm/ac20 has.

So I understand this post and yes until we get a matchmaker that actually balances matches based on IS/Clan, tonnage, equipment, upgrades, modules, weapons and ecm. All we really has is a matchmaker that is set up to make it most likely one side will lose the game because ELO has only one purpose and that is to bring everyone's win/loss to 50%. Which means unfair matches for oneside almost always. And as for new players, one side always has more, why because elo gives a new player an inflated score on purpose.

Chris

[AlmightyAeng]

Lily from animove, on 11 August 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

I have read it, but where is said stream, cmon want to see this form the direwofl perspective.

102 CT armor, doubt this really can 2 strike an atlas with an really reliable build. Of course you can make some extreme alpha strike builds but i doubt they are viable for the battlefield at all.
Otherwise a new age of 3 seconds to death meta has begun. and this would have already begun with arrival of the clanners.
This is more like a trollbuild I guess.

On the other side, I dunno it seems not to be a imposibly bad build at all. still full armor and stuff.

There you go, perfectly viable. Perfectly capable of it, especially if something crits or a a splash sets off an ammo.

2 CERPPC, 2 CGAUSS, lots of ammo, perfectly decent heat quotient, and a Mk. 1 Targeting computer.

If you wanna go full on nuts, ditch heatsinks and carry only 4 tons of gauss ammo and throw on another CERPPC. Still viable, heatwise.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 11 August 2014 - 11:29 AM.