125 replies to this topic

[PANZERKAT]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

Mercs, other than three huge units that were given planets...all station out where theyre a hop and a skip from caches. Also, in the lore, mercs dont use mechs 99% of the time. They use bloody tanks.

Obviously you dont know the lore if you think theres merc units other than the Kell Hounds, Death Legion, and Highlanders, with mechs. And two of those have what they have because of comstar and clan intervention. The other because they bloody well own a mech factory.

Obviously you don't own the Mercenary books which detail the % of units which are mechs, tanks and infantry? Do you not remember half a book full of lore mercenary units with such information? I'm pretty sure the unit which was integral in destroying much of Outreach wasn't on that small list of "mech only merc units". What you're saying is fairly ridiculous and sounds like something you've come up with for your own games.

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 11 September 2014 - 09:13 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

The total number of mech factories in 3030, was less than 50.

Each one only generally mechs one type of mech. So considering the volume of types, theres a ton of mechs no one builds and no one has.

No one had a Pheonix LAM, no one had a Marauder II, no one had a King Crab, no one had an Annihilator...the few of those that still existed, were in comstars hands.

No noble owned them, unless his family had owned them for over 400 years. Which is possible, but also very unlikely.

Remember in the IS there are two types of mech pilots. Nobles, and enlisted. Enlisted get what is built. Or bought. And generally you never bought anything more than a jump or two away because that was expensive, and NO ONE builds jump ships.

actually the Marauder II was a Wolf Dragoon exclusive mech, built in the IS, under contract for them, by GM/Blackwell. The Annihilator, Comstar had NONE of, because it was a Star League prototype developed by the Clans post Exodus, and exclusive to the Dragoons in the IS.

As for King Crabs, there were actually a small number of down.teched ones used throughout the Successor States, much like both House Steiner and Liao had the 732 series Highlander.

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

I mean the Death Legion doesnt even count...its got battle armor back in 3039...thats just ridiculous post FASA stuff. And Stackpole didnt do the universe any favors.

Grey Death developed battle armor during the Clan INvasion, with the help of NAIS I believe. In 3052. Not 3039.

Your attempt at Mech-Fu is admirable, but a tad dyslexic.

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

These are all SL mechs that no one has in their rosters in 3050:

[color=#000000]- Mercury (MCY-99)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Lynx (LNX-9Q) [/color]
[color=#000000]- Spartan (SPT-N2)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Wolverine (WVR-7H)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Phoenix Hawk (PXH-1b and PXH-1c)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Shogun (SHG-2F)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Thunder Hawk (TDK-7X)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Rifleman II (RFL-3N-2)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Battlemaster (BLR-1Gb)[/color]

None of those are operated by a house in our timeline.

Though id love to a see a Rifleman II

Here:

http://bg.battletech...hp?topic=1219.0

88 page PDF about halfway down, will tell you whats available to every faction in 3050.

Pretty much of all those are single variant of the chassis and were the super secret proprietary Royal Brigades versions. Even Comstar had none of those.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 11 September 2014 - 09:16 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 September 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

Actually, a large part of the British Navy was made up of captured French, Spanish and American ships, renamed and repurposed for HMS.

And to a less extent, that is how the Successor States operated. The reason Marik didn't field many Dragons, and Kurita many Awesomes (though in Warrior En Garde, it was indeed a Kuritan Awesome dueling Ardan Sortek's Victor.)? No shared border, so they never fought. And thus they didn't salvage each others units. What limited each house WITH their captured goods was access to factory parts for maintaining them. But half the mechs in the 3025 TRO had not been in production for centuries and were still used, generally with jury rigged parts.

So yes, each house did indeed have other "faction specific Mechs" in the TO&Es, whether salvaged, or procured through Merc Service, defectors, etc. But they were usually in insignificant quantities, and much harder to maintain, and lower priority for the Quartermaster, than readily available "official" house Designs.

Since there wasnt an America in the timeline I spoke of...going to ignore that since clearly youre off base. In the years after the HRE fell apart, Englands navy was small, and entirely composed of levies, and ships of the line built specifically by the nobility. The number of captured ships in the English navy when they encountered the Armada for instance, was less than a handful.

Thats the timeline this timeline takes after. The fall of the HRE, the despotic changes and the post plague world. Where small units battled for great gains. Were talking Agincourt times, not British Empire times.

Also yes, no shared border has a huge impact. Not only will you not generally combat those units and capture them in a repairable state, youre never going to purchase one, because its simply to many jumps away. It would raise the cost of the mech exponentially to the point that it wasnt worth it. It would be better to buy a mech closer.

The faction list that was posted:

http://users.tpg.com...ction_mechs.jpg

That already takes into account that diffussion between borders.

You see the Stalkers proliferated to their neighbors, same with the Banshee and Atlas, even though those factories are singular in nature, even in 3050.

[Joseph Mallan]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

The total number of mech factories in 3030, was less than 50.

Each one only generally mechs one type of mech. So considering the volume of types, theres a ton of mechs no one builds and no one has.

No one had a Pheonix LAM, no one had a Marauder II, no one had a King Crab, no one had an Annihilator...the few of those that still existed, were in comstars hands.

No noble owned them, unless his family had owned them for over 400 years. Which is possible, but also very unlikely.

Remember in the IS there are two types of mech pilots. Nobles, and enlisted. Enlisted get what is built. Or bought. And generally you never bought anything more than a jump or two away because that was expensive, and NO ONE builds jump ships.

Coventry
New Avalon
And
Defiance Industries

Factories that generate Multiple mechs on one site/planet.

[KraftySOT]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 11 September 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Obviously you don't own the Mercenary books which detail the % of units which are mechs, tanks and infantry? Do you not remember half a book full of lore mercenary units with such information? I'm pretty sure the unit which was integral in destroying much of Outreach wasn't on that small list of "mech only merc units". What you're saying is fairly ridiculous and sounds like something you've come up with for your own games.

I own the FASA mercenary MECHWARRIOR book. There is no battletech mercenary book put out by FASA, and Stackpole can suck it.

Which of course gives you details for rolling your own mech...because driving a tank around would be boring, but thats an entirely different system, based on roleplaying, like DnD, and not the Battletech/Citytech/Aerotech designed by FASA.

[PANZERKAT]

I find it hard to believe that technology had degraded so much that humanity had lost the ability to machine custom parts for mechs which may require that little bit extra due to being another Houses design. That's what FASA would like us to believe, but it doesn't gel.

[Joseph Mallan]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

I mean the Death Legion doesnt even count...its got battle armor back in 3039...thats just ridiculous post FASA stuff. And Stackpole didnt do the universe any favors.

Grey Death Legion is the reason we have Double Sinks Gauss rifles and all the Advanced Tech. The recovered it. So if they have BattleArmor before anyone else it is acceptable.

[PANZERKAT]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

I own the FASA mercenary MECHWARRIOR book. There is no battletech mercenary book put out by FASA, and Stackpole can suck it.

Which of course gives you details for rolling your own mech...because driving a tank around would be boring, but thats an entirely different system, based on roleplaying, like DnD, and not the Battletech/Citytech/Aerotech designed by FASA.

Wow. A FASA hold out. Pretty much anything Lore specific you are stating is now suspect. Catalyst has done a better job than FASA ever could.

[KraftySOT]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 September 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Coventry
New Avalon
And
Defiance Industries

Factories that generate Multiple mechs on one site/planet.

Coventry for instance, only makes one at a time, progressively. Thats the entire history of their production, including components. They surely arent building omni mechs in 3050. Thats the ENTIRE production history for the planet. Not the current output.

They stopped making firestarter back in 2670...and didnt pick it up again until 3049 with the S:

[color=#000000]The FS9-S is an overhaul of the FS9-H introduced in [/color]3049[color=#000000]. The structure has been upgraded to use an [/color]Endo Steel[color=#000000] chassis. The weapons carried are four flamers, two medium lasers, and a single small laser. An [/color]Anti-Missile System[color=#000000] with one ton of ammo has been added to protect against missile attacks, and a [/color]Beagle Active Probe[color=#000000] has been installed to enhance the [/color]Firestarter'[color=#000000]s scouting role. BV (1.0) = 551[/color]^[19][color=#000000], BV (2.0) = 760[/color]<sup>[5]

There isnt even an H listed in the variants of firestarters, so thats crap, and the P is from 3064!</sup>

[Joseph Mallan]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

I own the FASA mercenary MECHWARRIOR book. There is no battletech mercenary book put out by FASA, and Stackpole can suck it.

Which of course gives you details for rolling your own mech...because driving a tank around would be boring, but thats an entirely different system, based on roleplaying, like DnD, and not the Battletech/Citytech/Aerotech designed by FASA.

FanPro also put out SEVERAL Merc Handbooks. My daughter (the Aide) is named in one of these.

[KraftySOT]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 11 September 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Wow. A FASA hold out. Pretty much anything Lore specific you are stating is now suspect. Catalyst has done a better job than FASA ever could.

Total BS.

FASA was golden. Every one who has touched it since has ***** it silly.

Rotary Autocannons? This is the side youre taking here?

This explains our disconnect over the lore.

[Joseph Mallan]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

Coventry for instance, only makes one at a time, progressively. Thats the entire history of their production, including components. They surely arent building omni mechs in 3050. Thats the ENTIRE production history for the planet. Not the current output.

They stopped making firestarter back in 2670...and didnt pick it up again until 3049 with the S:

[color=#000000]The FS9-S is an overhaul of the FS9-H introduced in [/color]3049[color=#000000]. The structure has been upgraded to use an [/color]Endo Steel[color=#000000] chassis. The weapons carried are four flamers, two medium lasers, and a single small laser. An [/color]Anti-Missile System[color=#000000] with one ton of ammo has been added to protect against missile attacks, and a [/color]Beagle Active Probe[color=#000000] has been installed to enhance the [/color]Firestarter'[color=#000000]s scouting role. BV (1.0) = 551[/color]^[19][color=#000000], BV (2.0) = 760[/color]^[5]

There isnt even an H listed in the variants of firestarters, so thats crap, and the P is from 3064!

Point being that they have different lines producing multiple Mechs at different eras.

[PANZERKAT]

You claim there are only a few merc units in the IS that have mechs. Saying crap like that means there most certainly is a disconnect. It's silly and isn't backed up by published material.

[KraftySOT]

Because nothing added to it since 1995, do I have the least bit of respect for, or know about, or care about, or consider a part of the lore.

You cant just ignore the first 20 years of the games lore, because you picked up when you were a teenager in the late 90s when it was already being shoved down the pooper, and Max Tech was getting released.

All that stuff is crap son. Pure crap.

[Joseph Mallan]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Total BS.

FASA was golden. Every one who has touched it since has ***** it silly.

Rotary Autocannons? This is the side youre taking here?

This explains our disconnect over the lore.

FASA published the 3025TRO with Hunchback with a Heavy Mechs Internal Structure... Golden yes but an Editing department that did more acid than I did!

[Bishop Steiner]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

I own the FASA mercenary MECHWARRIOR book. There is no battletech mercenary book put out by FASA, and Stackpole can suck it.

Which of course gives you details for rolling your own mech...because driving a tank around would be boring, but thats an entirely different system, based on roleplaying, like DnD, and not the Battletech/Citytech/Aerotech designed by FASA.

Hate to keep doing this to you
http://www.sarna.net...ry%27s_Handbook

Joseph Mallan, on 11 September 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

FASA published the 3025TRO with Hunchback with a Heavy Mechs Internal Structure... Golden yes but an Editing department that did more acid than I did!

Naw, it just explains why they were tough Juggernaut Mechs! MWO should do the same!

[Joseph Mallan]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

Because nothing added to it since 1995, do I have the least bit of respect for, or know about, or care about, or consider a part of the lore.

You cant just ignore the first 20 years of the games lore, because you picked up when you were a teenager in the late 90s when it was already being shoved down the pooper, and Max Tech was getting released.

All that stuff is crap son. Pure crap.

Actually you can. FASA did not do a great job of continuity. And much rewriting was required to expand the universe.

[PANZERKAT]

What you think about the lore and what is actually lore are two different things. There was some lore before FASA folded, but it has been improved on greatly. We probably wouldn't even have MWO if the companies after FASA didn't pick up the ball. It would be officially dead and in the gutter.

[KraftySOT]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 September 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Point being that they have different lines producing multiple Mechs at different eras.

Totally agree with you. Just not at once. Factories change lines all the time. However the longer you run a perticular line, the higher your 'gearing' bonus is and the more efficient youll be at it. So most mech factories, especially after the third succession war, just produced one main chassis, and a few models of that chassis. A few could pump out some lights while they also did a heavy or an assault, but that was generally circumstantial to a war. Not SOP.

Everyone seems to forget that the IS was a total and complete wreck after the 3SW. By the 4th they were barely able to mount attacks.

When the clans showed up...which is really when the lore starts to take a dive and FASA is getting out of it/dying...everything changes to try and bring in new board game players. Then the Mechwarrior 2 comes out, and everything is forever changed.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 September 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Naw, it just explains why they were tough Juggernaut Mechs! MWO should do the same!

They did fix the oversight in successive printings. But yeah I had several Hunchbacks with Aromor equal to a Warhammer!