192 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

Bilbo, on 15 September 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

We aren't really going to quibble of about alternative definitions, are we?

FTFY. And yeah, apparently we are.

[WarHippy]

Appogee, on 15 September 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

It's the hole in the back of your PC where a network cable goes.

Uncultured heathens the whole lot of you.

[Illegal Username]

Helmer, on 15 September 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

Can you please forward this post or Pilot name to me?

Thanks!

As far as we know, Chronojam was banned these posts concerning MWO's developer staff. It's acerbic, but considering he was not answered it's justified. Well, apart from the banning which is an answer of sorts i guess

Quote

12/2013: Russ explains that MWO has a team of 45 developers, some forced to work double-duty

05/2014: Russ brags about PGI's rash of hiring, citing a 25% growth over a 6 month period

06/2014: PGI anonymously registers a landing page for their new scifi exploration game

09/2014: Bryan tells us MWO sustains a team of 35-40 developers (-22% to -11% "growth")

PGI's been growing, but the MWO team's been shrinking, and the space game has been a thing for at least three months at this point; at the very least, it's been serving as a quarter-long distraction for management that has chronically coupled poor team management with tone-deaf community relations.

Edited by Illegal Username, 15 September 2014 - 09:46 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Opus, on 15 September 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

But if you are suggesting that their return is based on their conduct fine, but IF we return to not allowing member to ask brutally honest questions... AND we have to "conform" to what PGI deems acceptable communications on their terms?

Yes, you have to conform to what PGI deems acceptable communication on their terms. This is a private forum, one to which you are granted access on their terms, not to which you are entitled access nor allowed to act however you see fit.

There is no freedom of speech in cases like this. You are not entitled to anything. You're in PGI's house here, and thus under their rules.

[Kraven Kor]

Wintersdark, on 15 September 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Yes, you have to conform to what PGI deems acceptable communication on their terms. This is a private forum, one to which you are granted access on their terms, not to which you are entitled access nor allowed to act however you see fit.

There is no freedom of speech in cases like this. You are not entitled to anything. You're in PGI's house here, and thus under their rules.

True.

But the rules and enforcement they choose can, in fact, cause them problems - whether done inconsistently, or heavy-handed, or not enough.

Pick your problem, basically.

[Garandos]

Wintersdark, on 15 September 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Yes, you have to conform to what PGI deems acceptable communication on their terms. This is a private forum, one to which you are granted access on their terms, not to which you are entitled access nor allowed to act however you see fit.

There is no freedom of speech in cases like this. You are not entitled to anything. You're in PGI's house here, and thus under their rules.

Still, acceptable communication should be defined by HOW you say something, not by what you say (basicaly, bare insults)

Ex. "Would you explain how it can be that you give us this numbers, but, (link) and (link) aswell as the communication (here) and (there) prove otherwise?"

against:

"OMGTARDS! You liez to uz! I know for fact that i play like dis and den you say no!"


Extreme and overdone examples, yep, but i guess you get the point? Well put critique should be within the borders of what goes, if allone for the fact, that quelling any questions (if well put) that do not fit you, cast a questionable on you.

[Shredhead]

Illegal Username, on 15 September 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

As far as we know, Chronojam was banned these posts concerning MWO's developer staff. It's acerbic, but considering he was not answered it's justified. Well, apart from the banning which is an answer of sorts i guess

I don't get it. If he was banned for these posts, why are they still visible? Or was it this strange "3-strike-rule"? Or something completely different?
I get why they redact certain sigs and pictures.
I get when they ban people for insults, abuse and threats.
This here smacks of extremely strange moderation habits.

[RabbidFerret]

The past few days have given me some cautious hope. I've started to play a few rounds again in my free time and I plan on bringing a few friends back too.

[Domenoth]

Illegal Username, on 15 September 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

As far as we know, Chronojam was banned [for these posts]

I'm glad you lead with "As far as we know" because sadly, we really have no idea. I don't know Chronojam, I've never played with Chronojam. But I think it's worth noting that forum posts are not the only things that can get you banned. Maybe he got drunk and threatened to kill a dev in a PM. We have no idea because we don't have access to all the facts. Heck, maybe his account was compromised and was used to spam Russ with "naughty" links.

Starting on the offensive by jumping to the conclusion that asking about dev staffing is a cardinal sin on these forums because that's all you can see is maybe a little paranoid. I realize the disappearance of an otherwise-well-behaved user doesn't look good, but it's unlikely we'll ever get any answers if we immediately pass out the pitchforks and tar. I'm not trying to say that's what you're doing, but I do think you're closer to pitchforks and tar than you are to the middle.

Again, I have no idea what Chronojam's situation is I'm just pointing out that there are other possibilities.

[WerewolfX]

As I stated in another thread folks PGI has thrown down the gauntlet. If we the community screw this up we got no one else to blame.

[Chronojam]

Domenoth, on 15 September 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

I'm glad you lead with "As far as we know" because sadly, we really have no idea. I don't know Chronojam, I've never played with Chronojam. But I think it's worth noting that forum posts are not the only things that can get you banned. Maybe he got drunk and threatened to kill a dev in a PM. We have no idea because we don't have access to all the facts. Heck, maybe his account was compromised and was used to spam Russ with "naughty" links.

We can definitely rule out threats in private message, anything Reddit related, or a compromised account.

[Mawai]

Thirdstar, on 14 September 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

http://www.reddit.co...orums_for_your/

Would be nice if Russ could comment on allegations that people were being banned for criticizing PGI on 3rd party websites. There are also worrying reports that Niko is using real names that he has no business having access to.

Just to add to this comment ...

I sent in a support ticket to MWO on Sept 7 commenting on the fact that they did not have the hero mechs on sale.

In the past, all of my support communications with PGI have been replied to with my screen name. However, the reply to the email I sent to support@mwomercs.com on September 7 was addressed to my real name not my ingame screen name.

I sent a reply to that support request stating that the use of my actual name in the reply was a privacy issue. The CS reps should not have access to real names except when dealing with a limited set of complaints related to accounts and billing.

I have not received any reply from support in regards to the privacy comment. My guess is that these issues have to do with new systems as a result of the datacenter move.

However, the use of my real name on the automated reply to my support request could be the basis for some of the comments/rumours regarding the use of actual player names in support communications.

[Russ Bullock]

Small Update:

I did manage to start the process today somehow amidst everything else. I have been able to respond to about half of those that emailed me, working through the rest tonight.

One player unbanned so a far, continuing conversations with the rest I have reached out to.

I won't name players they can come say hi if they want.

Anyhow so far so good, nice conversations.

[Renegade Robot]

I'm fairly skeptical of this approach. It almost gives off the suspicion that a large amount of people may have been wrongly banned when it comes PGI's view of the situation. I just hope this doesn't bring the rest of us more issues to deal with. Considering it's the players for the most part that have to bring these situations to support. It never has seemed like we've had people from the developers side of things, searching toxic players out. I do appreciate that Russ is trying to help those who have many been wrongly banned. I just hope the rest of us don't have to baby sit people who choose to act like children, because of this. We should have confidence in the future when it comes to the "Code of Conduct", the "Terms of Use", and "Supports" ability refer to that when deciding when someone should be banned.

[Bront]

On topic, Russ, is the unbanning you're talking about related to the forums only? Or are in game bans also able to now be questioned? Or are they one and the same? I know someone who got banned for a single incident in game and I'd love to tell him to follow up with you.

Russ Bullock, on 14 September 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Hey guys maybe we should just lock this down now, its degrading into a debate. The end result is were all taking a fresh approach and were looking to let some players back in to come help out. Let's bring it back to that or we can just lock this up and leave it for the original purpose of letting players know how to contact me etc.

As long as the debate is civil, I don't see why debate shouldn't continue. I've been a general supporter of PGI, but I think part of this new leaf is allowing for open, honest, and reasonable discussion and criticism. At least, up until this point, it's been fairly civil discussion on what happened over the past few weeks. It hasn't devolved into a venomous rampage (yet), and some valid questions are being asked (at least as of page 4).

[Bront]

Almeras, on 15 September 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

Puts on Evil Hat;

I would of asked for a $50 bond for 6months to sort the wheat from the chaff.

So they can come back if they promised to be constructive (that being the whole point) the $50 is to make sure they really want to come back and not just troll.

If they make it to 6months and not re-banned they get their $50 back but if they don't then they loose their bucks and it covers the cost of unbanning/re-banning them.

You don't want a pay gate to returning from a ban. That has all sorts of ugly moral and PR implications.

[Kraven Kor]

AMT527, on 15 September 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

I'm fairly skeptical of this approach. It almost gives off the suspicion that a large amount of people may have been wrongly banned when it comes PGI's view of the situation. I just hope this doesn't bring the rest of us more issues to deal with. Considering it's the players for the most part that have to bring these situations to support. It never has seemed like we've had people from the developers side of things, searching toxic players out. I do appreciate that Russ is trying to help those who have many been wrongly banned. I just hope the rest of us don't have to baby sit people who choose to act like children, because of this. We should have confidence in the future when it comes to the "Code of Conduct", the "Terms of Use", and "Supports" ability refer to that when deciding when someone should be banned.

Then they can't win, can they?

Either we are willing to forgive them for mistakes made, contingent on "better behavior" going forward, or we aren't. I am; again, contingent on that better behavior.

And that is a two-way street.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

This is my second thank you to you and the team this week Russ. I know I get negative at times but at least passionate and (most of the time) not overly shouting my opinion to the point of derailing threads or picking on others. I've been gone for some time due to the above and I can't say I'm going to jump right back out of the shadows but damn it's good to feel as if I like PGI again.

[Roadbeer]

Hai Guise

[RF Greywolf]

Roadbeer!!! Welcome back!!

Did you bring cake???