353 replies to this topic

[Joshua Obrien]

I'm honestly more pissed by the flight arc and dive of the Lrms. I've seen people shoot clear over buildings and land on someone standing behind a building as cover. It's asinine to have that ability. The damage is fine, the flight speed could be sped up imo. But the arc needs to be much lower to allow for better cover. Most things that look like they should conceal you do not. Cover is only cover until it's not?

[El Bandito]

Joshua Obrien, on 17 September 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:

I'm honestly more pissed by the flight arc and dive of the Lrms. I've seen people shoot clear over buildings and land on someone standing behind a building as cover. It's asinine to have that ability. The damage is fine, the flight speed could be sped up imo. But the arc needs to be much lower to allow for better cover. Most things that look like they should conceal you do not. Cover is only cover until it's not?

Cover and concealment are two different things here in MWO. I personally do not mind lower arc for IS LRMs as it will help me immensely when dumbfired.

Currently, due to high arching nature, IS LRM takes WAAAAY LONG time to arrive at target, even though the guy is only 500 meters away.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 September 2014 - 10:04 PM.

[Ovion]

Vaderman, on 17 September 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

I've never been in a match where I didn't have multiple choices of targets to lock on to when using LRMs. The hardest thing is deciding which of the many targets I want to hit.

Getting locks is usually pretty easy when boating since you're doing it from the safety of cover, in most cases.

Point the first:
I've had games where the ECM cover is so thick, I haven't been able to get a lock the entire match.
Forcing me to fall back on the 1-4 Medium Lasers any given Missile boat I run has.

Point the second: Honestly, the best Missile Boats don't sit in cover on their own, out of the way - that leads to their swift demise at the hands of hunter-killer groups running around (usually lights).
They definately don't stay still.

Ideally, you want to be running with the group, slightly behind them, still in range of their protection, but far enough you can support any brawl or direct action your team is engaging in.

[PhoenixFire55]

Wolfways, on 17 September 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

LRM5 maybe. Bring AMS.

It doesn't change anything. 95% of LRMs that pass through AMS will still hit CT. You guys aren't even reading what my point is.

Lyoto Machida, on 17 September 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

Have you ever used LRMs before?

You could have lock 100% of the time (all 15 minutes of a game) and land 0% of your missiles.

Only if you are dumb. Red crosshair is so OP.

[PhoenixFire55]

Mercules, on 17 September 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

So a still target, facing you, while you have Artemis and are in direct LoS. So you just demonstrated what Artemis was supposed to do for LRMs. Congratulations. Now, do that with a Commando, going full tilt, ducking and dodging in and out of cover with Radar Dep and twisting to avoid taking damage to his CT. Don't forget in the testing grounds mechs have STOCK armor which is LESS THAN HALF what a Commando can and normally will put on.

Artemis, TAG and Narc were all meant to increase the chances of hitting anything while still spreading the damage evenly across the mech, not making LRMs a CT sniper weapon. As for "less than half" I suggest you go and find out more about stock loadouts.

Mercules, on 17 September 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

LOTS of people use non Artemis LRMs. If you build a support mech and know you will have a spotter on your team then you don't equip Artemis. Why? because it is a waste of tonnage on a mech that will never have LOS and be using it. BTW, your "Healthiest Part" of that Commando has 2 more points or armor than the other pieces.

For starters its 6 points of armor plus 4 points of internal structure, but it hardly matters as anything but CT is barely scratched. Also I find it funny that you claim that Artemis is the reason my LRMs were so powerful and hit CT mostly in the test while still claiming that lots of people don't use it. Something doesn't add up.

Mercules, on 17 September 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

Because Streaks don't have half the counters LRMs do. If you are close enough to use Streaks you are likely close enough for BAP. Streaks also don't give the target time to get into cover. You can easily dodge LRMs you can't easily dodge Streaks.

LOL. So Streaks aren't affected by ECM? And multiple ECM does cancel BAP you know. Friedny BAP cancells ECM for friendly LRMs too. You can dodge Streaks just like you can dodge LRMs, plus AMS works against them as well. Quit BS'ing people, Streaks are no different from LRMs. When Streaks were hitting CT only back in beta it was considered a bug, now LRMs do same and its fine? Get real.

[El Bandito]

PhoenixFire55, on 18 September 2014 - 01:21 AM, said:

When Streaks were hitting CT only back in beta it was considered a bug, now LRMs do same and its fine? Get real.

Unless it is ALRM5, LRMs in general are pretty ineffective at focusing damage.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 18 September 2014 - 01:34 AM, said:

Unless it is ALRM5, LRMs in general are pretty ineffective at focusing damage.

I know my LRMs destroy side torsos before CTs more often than not. Just sayin.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 September 2014 - 01:40 AM, said:

I know my LRMs destroy side torsos before CTs more often than not. Just sayin.

And that really highlights the IS XL mechs' weakness compared to Clan XL mechs. Especially during the last few challenges.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 September 2014 - 01:43 AM.

[Wolfways]

PhoenixFire55, on 18 September 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

It doesn't change anything. 95% of LRMs that pass through AMS will still hit CT. You guys aren't even reading what my point is.

More hit ct yes but not anywhere near 95%. It's still a lot of inefficient damage.

Quote

Only if you are dumb. Red crosshair is so OP.

You mean if the targets are smart.

Edited by Wolfways, 18 September 2014 - 01:57 AM.

[Spr1ggan]

El Bandito, on 17 September 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

Stop being an assuming *****.

I use LRMs to farm puggers because they are hilariously inept at dealing with the slowest weapon in the game.

Looks like you should stick to LRMs going by those Dragon Slayer stats...

Edited by McHarg, 18 September 2014 - 02:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 18 September 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

And that really highlights the IS XL mechs' weakness compared to Clan XL mechs. Especially during the last few challenges.

i hate to correct you El... But my Missiles are an equal opportunity offender where side torso are concerned.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 September 2014 - 02:15 AM, said:

i hate to correct you El... But my Missiles are an equal opportunity offender where side torso are concerned.

Except that's not how it goes in practice. In practice, one ST usually pops before the other to my LRMs, because other people are also shooting at that mech and exposing that side. Jagers and Fastbacks die pretty damn fast while Crows and Novas die only after they go below 20%.

McHarg, on 18 September 2014 - 02:10 AM, said:

Looks like you should stick to LRMs going by those Dragon Slayer stats...

Hah, I doubt you can have better WLR with it. Especially considering the fact that you QQ about LRMs.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 September 2014 - 02:27 AM.

[Dormax]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

My DPS for AC20s over the total time(17:38:24) used is 0.5(35,022) My total DPS(59:30) for an LRM10 is 0.16(587) I think you are mistaken Phoenix.

Not so sure about that. My stats (as of right now) are a bit different...
LRM10 (152,585 dmg / 1:03:24:44): 1.546 dps
AC/20 ( 10,666 dmg / 0:03:01:04): 0.982 dps
ERPPC ( 13,221 dmg / 0:01:55:32): 1.907 dps

So, although my DPS with LRM 10's is certainly higher than the AC/20, my use of ER PPCs is higher than either.

LRM's certainly have an indirect fire advantage, but as an experienced pilot you also learn to work with teams that can't maintain locks and also to take advantage of NARCs when they are active.

[Joseph Mallan]

Interesting Numbers Dormax. More sources of data is always better for statistics. Are your Missiles Augmented by Artemis, Narc or TAG?

My Missiles were Unaugmented for the most part. Thanks for those numbers!

El Bandito, on 18 September 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

Except that's not how it goes in practice. In practice, one ST usually pops before the other to my LRMs, because other people are also shooting at that mech and exposing that side. Jagers and Fastbacks die pretty damn fast while Crows and Novas die only after they go below 20%.

But that is part of them being Clan Omnis El. They survive better than My Mechs.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 September 2014 - 03:01 AM.

[Dormax]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 September 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

Interesting Numbers Dormax. More sources of data is always better for statistics. Are your Missiles Augmented by Artemis, Narc or TAG?

My typical LRM boat has a TAG, but by far, most of that damage is through indirect fire. I'll certainly take advantage of a NARC if it's available.

The PPC is on a clan ECM sniper, and that's the only place that I use clan PPCs - so it's easy to isolate that particular stat.

[PhoenixFire55]

Wolfways, on 18 September 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

More hit ct yes but not anywhere near 95%. It's still a lot of inefficient damage.

Totally explains why even a tiny Commando died into CT while nothing else was damaged nearly as much. Yeah, very inefficient. NOT.

Wolfways, on 18 September 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

You mean if the targets are smart.

Well if somebody launches for 15 mins like you said and still hits nothing, its not the targets.

El Bandito, on 18 September 2014 - 01:34 AM, said:

Unless it is ALRM5, LRMs in general are pretty ineffective at focusing damage.

Well watch the 2nd test. LRM15, not as effective as LRM5 in terms of pinpoint CT but still, CT dies while nothing else is damaged nearly as much. On a tiny Commando...

[Wolfways]

PhoenixFire55, on 18 September 2014 - 03:16 AM, said:

Totally explains why even a tiny Commando died into CT while nothing else was damaged nearly as much. Yeah, very inefficient. NOT.



Well if somebody launches for 15 mins like you said and still hits nothing, its not the targets.



Well watch the 2nd test. LRM15, not as effective as LRM5 in terms of pinpoint CT but still, CT dies while nothing else is damaged nearly as much. On a tiny Commando...

Public matches generally don't have stationary stock armour targets though.

[Dormax]

PhoenixFire55, on 18 September 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

Only if you are dumb. Red crosshair is so OP.

/sign

Oh... the humanity of it... all those dead mountains, buildings, and rocks. LOL

[Joseph Mallan]

Dormax, on 18 September 2014 - 03:13 AM, said:

My typical LRM boat has a TAG, but by far, most of that damage is through indirect fire. I'll certainly take advantage of a NARC if it's available.

The PPC is on a clan ECM sniper, and that's the only place that I use clan PPCs - so it's easy to isolate that particular stat.

Thanks, That information is helpful AND telling.

PhoenixFire55, on 18 September 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

It doesn't change anything. 95% of LRMs that pass through AMS will still hit CT. You guys aren't even reading what my point is.



Only if you are dumb. Red crosshair is so OP.

In my C.A.S.E.(pun), Its because your point is not matching my results with Missiles.

[ramjb]

This morning I Bought my second highlander. 733. Since it has four missile hardpoints and I don't generally like the mech (second highlander, first was the 733C and honestly I felt like a slow brick that couldn't even stand vs even a moderate timberwolf build), and I'm levelling it just to unlock the mastery for my Stalker and any other assault I get in the future, I set myself for an experiment.

I fit it as a lurmboat. 4xLRM10+artemis,TAG,LLaser, XL300 engine, BAP, AMS+1.5 tons of ammo, 2070 missiles. Wanted to know how many battles and time will it take for me to unlock all the basic skills.

This is fresh, just out of the oven stuff. This are my stats (copied from the stat page of my profile:
Mech' Matches Played Wins Losses Ratio Kills Deaths Ratio Damage Done XP Earned Time Played
HIGHLANDER HGN-733 9 7 2 3.5 10 4 2.5 5,102 15,220 00:54:52


Took me 54 minutes to complete all the basics. 54 minutes. With an average damage of 566 per battle, and 1691 exp per battle. Highest damage was 894, lowest (by far) was 76 (Alpine map, team derped out rushing for the I9 hill like mad, they left me alone with my paltry 54kph, and then three lights came and massacred me). Second loss was 290-ish on Terra Therma,in another derpy team.

Remember, no expert skills, and basic skills being worked on.

And in all those 54 minutes I didn't have to bother about track-shooting with my lasers, leading with my ballistics or PPCs, worry about return fire (if I didn't want to as I tried to be at the front TAGing with the rest of my team, my 54kph permitting, but in most situations I was firing while noone could shoot back at me). In other words: EZmode ™. ECM?. Who cares about ECM. I had TAG in an assault mech. 'Nuff said.

You'll notice only 10 kills. I could easily have had more, but once an enemy mech was either red cored or badly legged (legged and no armor on the other leg), I usually switched targets if any was available, to keep the rain of fire on other mechs as constant as possible.


It was so bad, so easy, that by the end I was just taking it easy: in team chat at the beginning of the game I was mocking the usual Lurmboat plead for targets, jokingly stating that as I was in a lurmboat everyone was instantly turned into my slave and was forced to target so I could rake 1000dmg while hiding. the sarcasm didn't go unnoticed and team chat was hillarious to watch too.

I'm not selling this one, as I planned to do. When LRMs are nerfed I will do so, but I'm not getting rid of something that has given me in excess of 2 million credits in 9 games, without even being a hero mech with absolutely no effort whatsoever. And the next one (733P) I plan to lurmboat too with a LRM20 and two LRM15s all with artemis, LLas and TAG aswell. Will make for the easiest grind I've ever had in this game by far.

LRMs are in an unnaceptable state atm. They -sorely- need a nerf.

Edited by ramjb, 18 September 2014 - 04:17 AM.