353 replies to this topic

[Joshua Obrien]

I thought the screen shake was my only issue since returning to play MWO after a hiatus. I was terribly terribly wrong.
Alittle insight into this beautiful screen shot.. I got locked onto while I was up on a cliff and started getting hit by lrms. I immediately backed off the cliff to receive cover from the hills and valley. This did not work, by the time I hit the ground I had already been hit by one wave of lrms. But they kept coming and coming and coming. No spotter was around me since I was in a small crevasse where a turn starts and no one above me looking down. I don't believe I got narced because everyone was so far away I would have seen it coming, but I could be wrong.

My issue is the arc at which these things fly, and the ability they seem to posses of locking onto your CT and making love to it until you're no longer standing. I thought cover was supposed to help with this things. If this was an isolated incident I would shrug it off as bad luck, but it's not. These things fly over cover that it shouldn't on most maps(I.E forest colony behind one of the spire mountains past the broken ship. They flew up and over the verticle mountain that was at least 4x the height of my mech and continued to desecrate me.

The damage they do is fine. If I'm out in the open I deserve to get molested by Lrms. That's my fault entirely. But behind cover that is quite a bit taller than me? There is no excuse.

The picture below is what happened. After torso twisting to spread out the damage it still didn't help much since my CT got eaten away.

[DocBach]

The only problem I have with lrms is the fact that when hundreds of them are exploding it kills my fps, even with 4790k and two gtx780s.

If you are being hit behind cover the enemy either has Artemis, you are narc'd or tagged or a combination of any of them -- they improve missile tracking around obstacles.

Edited by DocBach, 17 September 2014 - 02:38 AM.

[Quxudica]

Joshua Obrien, on 17 September 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

I thought the screen shake was my only issue since returning to play MWO after a hiatus. I was terribly terribly wrong.
Alittle insight into this beautiful screen shot.. I got locked onto while I was up on a cliff and started getting hit by lrms. I immediately backed off the cliff to receive cover from the hills and valley. This did not work, by the time I hit the ground I had already been hit by one wave of lrms. But they kept coming and coming and coming. No spotter was around me since I was in a small crevasse where a turn starts and no one above me looking down. I don't believe I got narced because everyone was so far away I would have seen it coming, but I could be wrong.

My issue is the arc at which these things fly, and the ability they seem to posses of locking onto your CT and making love to it until you're no longer standing. I thought cover was supposed to help with this things. If this was an isolated incident I would shrug it off as bad luck, but it's not. These things fly over cover that it shouldn't on most maps(I.E forest colony behind one of the spire mountains past the broken ship. They flew up and over the verticle mountain that was at least 4x the height of my mech and continued to desecrate me.

The damage they do is fine. If I'm out in the open I deserve to get molested by Lrms. That's my fault entirely. But behind cover that is quite a bit taller than me? There is no excuse.

The picture below is what happened. After torso twisting to spread out the damage it still didn't help much since my CT got eaten away.

LRMs are a poorly designed weapon, I've said so many times since Closed Beta. The best solution would be to make Indirect Fire with LRMs only possible if the target is tagged or NARC'd, without these an LRM user should need to maintain LoS to maintain a lock.

I honestly wish the game had used something like how LL did things, radar had a passive mode and an active mode, LRMs could lock onto mechs that used active radar mode making it a risk vs reward and tying it into other game systems.

[nonnex]

Radar Deprevation? (Well does not work if you narked too), but better then nothin.

Edited by nonnex, 17 September 2014 - 02:44 AM.

[Reitrix]

Also, Radar Decay.
LRMs need a much more shallow flight angle, and need to not make minute flight path adjustments right up until they impact. Those missiles are *not* that maneuverable.

[Joseph Mallan]

he is complaining about being the target of massed fire here. He is the target of at least 2 missile boats. So if he was being shot be 2-3 AC/PPC builds he would have died just as fast.

Crying about indirect fire is like crying cause the pitcher has a wicked Slider.

As a grenadier I could lob a 40 mm grenade over a wall to provide a warm welcome to enemy forces. You are playing a combat game, I want my combat weapons to act somewhat like actual weapons. I do support fixing things like clipping and phasing through cover, but if you haven't chosen the right cover, or the enemy has you pinged, you just need to die and deal with it, or find better cover fast.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 September 2014 - 03:54 AM.

[Mercules]

Joshua Obrien, on 17 September 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

I got locked onto while I was up on a cliff and started getting hit by lrms. I immediately backed off the cliff to receive cover from the hills and valley. This did not work, by the time I hit the ground I had already been hit by one wave of lrms. But they kept coming and coming and coming.

This seems telling. You "backed off". Did you get behind cover and move laterally compared to the direction of the LRMs? LRM flight paths on a locked mech will lead them to the point where they lost you. At that point they will swoop down and into a shallow continuation of that angle. So if you back straight up.... you still get hit by what was in the air and locked onto you. It's no longer hitting you as accurately, but it will still hit you.

Next time, as you are backing down that hill, get under cover and swing to one side as you complete your backing and the missiles will slip right past you. Radar Dep helps with that.

Edited by Mercules, 17 September 2014 - 05:20 AM.

[Mcgral18]

A few things;

Twist to your least damaged side, or your shield side, when there are Lurms incoming. Don't facetank them, you'll take them mostly to the CT, instead of Arm + ST.


Look for UAVs, those go through cover.

ATD lasts for 3.5 seconds, TAG says it lasts for 1 second, which might stack for up to 4.5 seconds. Radar Derp reduces ATD to 1.5 seconds, by removing the base target decay of 2 seconds.

Find hard cover.

[Karl Streiger]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

he is complaining about being the target of massed fire here. He is the target of at least 2 missile boats. So if he was being shot be 2-3 AC/PPC builds he would have died just as fast.

Crying about indirect fire is like crying cause the pitcher has a wicked Slider.

As a grenadier I could lob a 40 mm grenade over a wall to provide a warm welcome to enemy forces. You are playing a combat game, I want my combat weapons to act somewhat like actual weapons. I do support fixing things like clipping and phasing through cover, but if you haven't chosen the right cover, or the enemy has you pinged, you just need to die and deal with it, or find better cover fast.

Well on one hand you are right - fire power kills - and its always frustrating to get killed by Lurms and leaves a bitter taste...(ok better to be killed in a game by lurms - than in real life by a MRSI Ari Strike, or other ugly things without warning)

But the main problem is - that LRM on an indirect fire - seems to be more effective as LRMs fired with LOS. Maybe its just subjective - but its the way it looks like.
Cover can ruin LOS LRMs or other Lurms (if the OP would move back after the first hit - he wouldn't bee ankle deep in the brown) but indirect fire don't care for "light" cover - they simple come in with a high angle (even if they were fired on a low angle because of LOS)

I really hope that indirect and direct fire LRMs will be parted. So you have to choose before battle:

• should I play MWO like a browser game - only with mouse and minimal keybord actions - only click on icons
  
• or do i want to play MWO in its finest - with moving - seeing your LRM rip a target open - before you close and finish the job with MLASERs and Bayonet

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Joshua Obrien, on 17 September 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

.

It says you died from rageagainstthedyingofthelight.

I have seen him in game, before.

He runs a LRM boat that is a LRM80 or a LRM100. Or more.

I don't remember exactly how many LRM's his boat fires. But, it fires a lot.

It can destroy a mech with a few barrages.

If he locks onto you and has a clear shot, the damage will be significant.

[Joseph Mallan]

sneeking, on 17 September 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

they wouldn't be a problem if there weren't so damm many of them, a single 10 15 or 20 rack perhaps two to three 5 racks on balanced builds using lrm as part of a total weapons system along side ballistics and energy and the problem is solved.

Problem, there are canon builds that have 2 LRM 20s, 2-3 LRM15s, Heck there is a clan Build with 8 CLRM 15s! You will be facing more missiles as the game progresses... or not as we are constructing those canon builds already... There is a 85 ton Mech that is a LRM70. We see a few of them in MW:O already. We cannot stop players from bring builds that can kill us because we don't wanna die.

[PhoenixFire55]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

he is complaining about being the target of massed fire here. He is the target of at least 2 missile boats. So if he was being shot be 2-3 AC/PPC builds he would have died just as fast.

Those can't sustain the DPS nearly as good as LRMs, need to be aimed and are completely negated by cover. LRMs require no aim and go over and around most cover that block direct fire. Also, screen shake from LRMs is just fubar.

[Gnume]

Joshua Obrien, on 17 September 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

No spotter was around me since I was in a small crevasse where a turn starts and no one above me looking down. I don't believe I got narced because everyone was so far away I would have seen it coming, but I could be wrong.

My issue is the arc at which these things fly, and the ability they seem to posses of locking onto your CT and making love to it until you're no longer standing. I thought cover was supposed to help with this things. If this was an isolated incident I would shrug it off as bad luck, but it's not. These things fly over cover that it shouldn't on most maps(I.E forest colony behind one of the spire mountains past the broken ship. They flew up and over the verticle mountain that was at least 4x the height of my mech and continued to desecrate me.

As someone else mentioned, if you weren't Narced, then the likely culprit was a UAV hovering overhead. People need to get into the habit of looking up for the shining bright dot every so often ;-)

As to the meat of your issue...I agree. The flight path is a bit too steep. It seems like hiding behind something a little taller than your mech would be sufficient but apparently it needs to be 3x the height of your mech because of the angle of the flight path. Other than that, I feel LRMs are fine (well, I think the Impulse is still too great when you are getting swarmed).

[Joseph Mallan]

PhoenixFire55, on 17 September 2014 - 04:25 AM, said:

Those can't sustain the DPS nearly as good as LRMs, need to be aimed and are completely negated by cover. LRMs require no aim and go over and around most cover that block direct fire. Also, screen shake from LRMs is just fubar.

My DPS for AC20s over the total time(17:38:24) used is 0.5(35,022) My total DPS(59:30) for an LRM10 is 0.16(587) I think you are mistaken Phoenix.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 September 2014 - 04:36 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Good.

We need more of this.

People need to remember why ECM is necessary, sometimes.

And why its madness to say: ECM should be nerfed.

.

[Lemming211]

Reitrix, on 17 September 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

Also, Radar Decay.
LRMs need a much more shallow flight angle, and need to not make minute flight path adjustments right up until they impact. Those missiles are *not* that maneuverable.

I've been saying this for a while. LRMs should have a shallow arc, and should spread more. The 90% CT hits is too much. Reserve the high ballistic arc for Arrow IV. If that was changed (I shouldn't say fixed as I'm sure it's working as intended) I believe most of the LRM complaints would disappear. (But of course you'd get new ones complaining LRMs had become useless)

[Joseph Mallan]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

My DPS for AC20s over the total time(17:38:24) used is 0.5(35,022) My total DPS(59:30) for an LRM10 is 0.16(587) I think you are mistaken Phoenix.

I decided it wasn't fair to test an LRM10 against an AC20.

AC10 stats
Time 02:58:12(10,692 seconds)
Damage 4,041
DPS over 3 hours 0.377

Over 2 times the DpS as a LRM10.

[poopenshire]

Lemming211, on 17 September 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

I've been saying this for a while. LRMs should have a shallow arc, and should spread more. The 90% CT hits is too much. Reserve the high ballistic arc for Arrow IV. If that was changed (I shouldn't say fixed as I'm sure it's working as intended) I believe most of the LRM complaints would disappear. (But of course you'd get new ones complaining LRMs had become useless)

How are you getting 90% CT hits, I have never seen nor had that great of LRM fire concentration.

[PhoenixFire55]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

My DPS for AC20s over the total time(17:38:24) used is 0.5(35,022) My total DPS(59:30) for an LRM10 is 0.16(587) I think you are mistaken Phoenix.

And how much of LRM DPS was wasted on disappearing locks? No way to tell. Load a Jager A with two AC20s and then same tonnage of LRMs. The sustained DPS over a long period is higher with LRMs.

[Lemming211]

poopenshire, on 17 September 2014 - 04:45 AM, said:

How are you getting 90% CT hits, I have never seen nor had that great of LRM fire concentration.

Look at the first post. Cored CT, and hit with nothing but LRMs. They should spread more.