337 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

E N E R G Y, on 21 September 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

yeah but you are insinuating even slightly modding this game would turn MWO into a twitch based game or even close.

so I was firmly stating that this game is another universe compared to those games, and you could buff and modify this game to any one's taste and it wouldn't come close to a fast paced shooter so open your mind a bit.

Not actually, just putting up the caution that really, one needs to be careful how far one strays from the source material, and be sure it really is needed, because pretty soon, one can end up with Generic Mech Game, ala Hawken.

Nothing wrong with those games, but they already exist. In droves. This is a pretty storied IP. Like Star wars, etc (though not as huge, obviously). With a pretty rabid fan base, with some modicum of expectations. Basically, if we are going to change things so much, it remains MechWarrior in name only, then the people requesting that, should play one of the other generic games.

It's a matter of respecting the IP, but the happy medium I mention is knowing that one will have to make concessions to the fact it is not a turn based TT iteration of it. and thus things do have to change. But one has to be careful not to change it so much as to lose the identity of the game. MWO has long has issues deciding who it want to appeal to, and who it's core is.

[KraftySOT]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

perhaps if the epeen could be reduced enough to have the term "skill based" replaced with "reflex based".... reflexes being a an inherent talent or ability, not really a teachable skill? Because I freely admit, those HoL and SJR guys all pretty much got way better reflexes than me.

The day I see an M1A1 abrams moving at flank speed over rough terrain and aiming pinpoint with a mouse, I reckon I will concede that situational or conditional CoF obviate skill.

But I would say the men and women who drive them, shoot real guns and overcome all kinds of imperfect aiming scenarios, have more "skill" than anyone playing this game.

Sadly, it seems people don't like to acknowledge that real skill comes from acknowledging that there are always outside influences introducing "RNG" into taking a shot, and knowing when to, and when not to, take the shot and make it work, anyhow.

Exactly.

And I mean imagine if youre playing a world war two FPS, and your 1911 fires like a modern Barrett .50 rifle...

And when you said...hey uh, this is a pistol, in the source material, you know, world war two, it had an effective range, should we really be capping people like its South Central all the way across the map with a hand gun?

And the response you get is "That was world war two, this is World War Two Online"

"In world war two you aimed with physics....in this you have skill"

rofl, when you start comparing the train of thought to other similar things...it gets really ludicrous really fast.

A star wars game with a blaster that acts a like a rail gun..."That was star wars, this is star wars online" "Star wars was a movie, in this game you have skill and can aim"

[Bishop Steiner]

KraftySOT, on 21 September 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Exactly.

And I mean imagine if youre playing a world war two FPS, and your 1911 fires like a modern Barrett .50 rifle...

And when you said...hey uh, this is a pistol, in the source material, you know, world war two, it had an effective range, should we really be capping people like its South Central all the way across the map with a hand gun?

And the response you get is "That was world war two, this is World War Two Online"

Yup.

God, that comparo kinda makes me miss the old Delta Force games...... where your tools had some very distinct roles.

KraftySOT, on 21 September 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

A star wars game with a blaster that acts a like a rail gun..."That was star wars, this is star wars online" "Star wars was a movie, in this game you have skill and can aim"

Well, the Storm Troopers probably could take some lessons from HoL.....

[stjobe]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Well, the Storm Troopers probably could take some lessons from HoL.....

Storm Troopers are actually excellent shots, they just tend to employ a tactic called "herding"...

[KraftySOT]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Yup.

God, that comparo kinda makes me miss the old Delta Force games...... where your tools had some very distinct roles.


Well, the Storm Troopers probably could take some lessons from HoL.....

lol fair point!

It just irks me...I see people with alot better skill at aiming than me in tons of games. And in all those games they can accomplish to **** me silly, with weapons that ARENT pinpoint accurate.

Running across a hallway in Battlefield 4 and getting hit 6 times by someone with a semi automatic handgun 30 yards away...that impresses me. Even though im now back to the respawn screen dead as hell, im impressed. I cant do that. Im not that good. The pistols are fairly realistic and they sure arent laser beams. Those guys are just good.

Soon as im done here, im gonna lol pop some light mech with my pulse boat Banshee.

Im not great, but when the system is just handing you perfect pitches, youd be foolish not to swing right?

[aniviron]

Russ Bullock, on 19 September 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

It is a scenario that could be likely. However we are getting close to releasing the full IS Quirk pass and it will put some more armor and Internals on mechs in the right places so I need to see how that plays first. I am hoping we can accomplish it this way instead of a blanket increase.

I don't suppose there's any chance that some mechs will get a reexamination of their hitboxes in addition to armor/internal HP? The Raven's legs, for example, have 20-50% wider hitboxes than the legs look like they should. While the Raven was intentionally gimped like this way back before HSR was implemented, there are a few mechs that have problem areas like this that make them really tough to play.

[Kirkland Langue]

This thread.

This thread is exactly why we don't have CW yet. The exact same conversations were taking place in CB and I remember distinctly telling this community that the more time we spend talking about balance, the more distracted the devs would become - and it wouldn't matter in the slightest because we'd still be talking about balance years in the future.

It's really unfortunate that the CB forums aren't still around - it'd show just how shortsighted people are. Everyone only cares about their last battle that they just dropped into without opening their eyes and realizing that these little balance discussions are worthless when the game as a whole is burning down because it can't get out of alpha state.

[DAYLEET]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

God, that comparo kinda makes me miss the old Delta Force games.....

Damnit now i have to try and find some info if they still plan to make a Joint Operation 2 called Angels Fall and i know full well i will be sorely disappointed and most probably angry. I want back my 6 hours match with day/night cycle and 150 people on the server.

[White Bear 84]

ShadowbaneX, on 21 September 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

I had a match on Terra Therma last night and it had the best brawl I've ever seen in MWO. It started by my side having a light skirmish in the middle and getting control. This was followed by the usual peaking around corners, my side in the middle the other team on the outside looking in. Then once of our lances flanked around behind and got some of the enemy to turn around, and we pushed in, thinking that it was a 6-8 mechs.

Turns out that the entire enemy team was there, but miracle of miracles, when we pushed we all pushed. I was one of the first in with my Vindicator, but since there was a couple of Timberwolves behind me, I only took like damage before the bigger mechs behind me moved in. I charged down the hill firing as I could.

It was a full on melee furball. It was awesome. I did get taken out eventually, but I just sat and watched the melee and it was glorious. My armour actually felt useful as, well, I wasn't instantly focused fired and cored. I actually felt like I was in a (granted, medium sized) giant walking robot and I couldn't help but think, damn, we need more fights like this.

I think I might of been in that match (maybe?!) - there was a really awesome game on terra last night, your name is familiar..

I was running my DireWolf and managed to get 7-5.

Our team pushed the crater first, encountering some of the enemy, who flushed outside then ran into our lance - the rest of the team came up from behind and there was a few mechs picked off, but overall a big brawl. Ended with a LRM catapult, Atlas and Stormcrow to kill at the end of the game. Think it was 12-8... ...have to check my screenshots!

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

>double armor because people complain they die too quickly
>buff weapons because people complain about weapon diversity being slim
>people complain they die too quickly

how about we reduce armor back to its original values, and tell whiners to shut the **** up or get out? This would solve the viability problems, and it would also take care of the "elite mech warriors" who cannot handle being killed and want their "realistic" mech game.


if realism is what you want, then after dying once you shouldn't be allowed to login anymore or post on the forums because dead people don't talk. I personally don't give a flying **** about realism in video games, realism is for stupid, unimaginative people who are so goddamn boring they can't handle leaving reality for two ******* seconds without complaining that "my giant stomping robot game isn't realistic." **** realism.

in fact, as realistic as I'm willing to tolerate at all is physics. That's it.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 21 September 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[ShadowbaneX]

White Bear 84, on 21 September 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

I think I might of been in that match (maybe?!) - there was a really awesome game on terra last night, your name is familiar..

I was running my DireWolf and managed to get 7-5.

Our team pushed the crater first, encountering some of the enemy, who flushed outside then ran into our lance - the rest of the team came up from behind and there was a few mechs picked off, but overall a big brawl. Ended with a LRM catapult, Atlas and Stormcrow to kill at the end of the game. Think it was 12-8... ...have to check my screenshots!

That sounds about right. The main fight took place on the enemy side of the map, opposite the entrance to mid where you have to cross a bridge. It was a hell of a match, probably one of the matchs that I think is truely worthy of the Battletech Franchise. I want more fights like that.

[KraftySOT]

Yeah the realism thing kind of goes out of the window when a modern shoulder launched ATGM can take out an MBT that is 4-7 tons of armor...thats basically any lighter mech...pretty much in a single hit reliably.

Even modern RPG systems can take out yesteryears MBTs like the T-72.

The idea of a mech being durable in any sense isnt realism at all...but from a gameplay standpoint, that probably would suck. Avoiding players getting one shot killed is something as a designer you probably want to do in a 'big stompy robot game'...but realistically speaking, and you can throw in all the lore you want, realistically, every single mech is a walking death trap that was a complete waste of money, resources, time, and manpower.

[Aresye]

Sable, on 19 September 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

Title says it all. The spike damage nonsense wouldn't be such a problem if it took a whole lot more effort to bring down a mech. Heat management skills would be more valuable since you wouldn't be able to alpha all day long. Maybe it's just tonight but MWO is not fun right now.

MWO is plenty fun, and it really ISN'T HARD to survive! You know what isn't fun? Watching 2-4 bad players taking a full 3+ minutes to kill the last mech, or (on the opposite side) watching the sole remaining player engaging 2-4 cored/nearly cored mechs, and after 3+ minutes, dies without killing a single one of them.

I'm often one of the last mechs standing on my team during a loss. In fact, I think I die more often in victories than I do dying early in a stomp. I'm also typically in the front of the group, continuously firing on as many mechs as I can to keep their heads down and give my team more of a chance, yet they still die before me, despite the fact I'm often the one getting focused the entire time. What gives?

It may sound elitist, but there's truth behind a lot of "elitist" remarks on these forums when it comes to complaints about the game:
- Torso twist to spread damage.
- Keep moving!
- Use cover!
- Don't charge into the enemy team alone!

I don't survive because of my armor value or mech class. I survive because I do all of the above, and it would seem like such common, logical reasoning that it doesn't warrant being said, but truth be told, it isn't very common. The entire reason focus fire is effective is BECAUSE so many players DON'T do any of the above. They stand in the open, they don't torso twist, they get tunnel vision on a single mech, and they let 4-5 mechs all focus fire on them at once.

Increasing armor values (again) would just be another feature that makes the game more boring and less fun, in addition to making the last man standing type battles even more time consuming and cringe worthy to watch.

- Torso twist.
- Use cover.
- If focused on, rotate out with a fresh mech and/or change position.
- Don't stand still.

Do all 4 of those things above, and you WILL survive longer. Why must we find ways to cater the game to those who refuse to learn it? Why should we reward bad habits, instead of promoting people to actually...you know...learn to play?

[KraftySOT]

Yeah but it also sucks to see an entire team sitting behind a berm or hill or around a corner, avoiding each other for 8 minutes because the first to expose themselves dies an instant fiery death.

Then you yearn for the PUG player who just runs out like a madman and dies, so your team will actually try and pick up the initiative.

Sitzkrieg is no fun Doesnt happen all the time. But it sucks when it happens.

Edited by KraftySOT, 21 September 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[PANZERKAT]

It's not about learning. Mechs used to survive longer and combat was slower. I preferred that sort of game play because it meant more probing and scouting actions without getting crippled, hamstringing your team with being 1 mech down.

Moving to 12v12 has sped up the game, obviously. As much as I'd like to see an actual Solaris system, it would be REALLY boring if we didn't have a drop ship mode where you select more mechs in your stable after getting destroyed.

It should be about fun. The game is more fun with more people running around impacting the battlefield. They obviously agree with this statement or we wouldn't be seeing Quirk passes or even the consideration that increasing the damage mechs can sustain.

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 21 September 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[White Bear 84]

ShadowbaneX, on 21 September 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

That sounds about right. The main fight took place on the enemy side of the map, opposite the entrance to mid where you have to cross a bridge. It was a hell of a match, probably one of the matchs that I think is truely worthy of the Battletech Franchise. I want more fights like that.

Yeah, must be

Hopefully have that screenie lying around.. ..I remember during the brawl just getting 5 kills in a row at the start of the match.. ..I love my Direwolf

[Jaeger Gonzo]

E N E R G Y, on 21 September 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

This isn't tabletop.

No one wants to sit around for 1hour playing a slow game like that.

We get that all you table top 1980's players loved that game, and sure, some elements can be incorporated into this game, but this is a PC game, and for it to be competitive it shouldn't emulate some out-dated 1hour board game

Usually games take like no more then 20 turns, often 15. Thats 20x10= 200 seconds, not fast enough?
I will say TT is way faster.
So what are you talking about? I suppose you dont have an idea.

[PANZERKAT]

Lots of hyperbole about how much longer a map needs to be stretched out with extra armour to make it more fun.

[ShadowbaneX]

White Bear 84, on 21 September 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Yeah, must be

Hopefully have that screenie lying around.. ..I remember during the brawl just getting 5 kills in a row at the start of the match.. ..I love my Direwolf

I hope you've got it too (and I'm in it). My score is probably depressingly bad (I keep playing my Vindicators as Lights and dying horribly. I'd sell them now that I've got them Mastered, but I've got 4 spare mech bays and nothing else I'm really interested in playing right now, so it's not like I need the bays), but I'd like to see the scores just for the record as it was that great of a match.

Only thankful thing I can really say about this weekend is that at least I've got those Vindicators mastered and I can go back to playing fun mechs. Can't wait to hop back in to my SHD-2H or my SDR-5D

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 21 September 2014 - 05:47 PM.

[Sandpit]

Sable, on 19 September 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

Title says it all.

No thank you