349 replies to this topic

[CyclonerM]

Well, the Gargoyle is a 1st line Omni, very common Assault in the Wolf touman, definitely not IInd line

[SoHxPaladin]

Redshift2k5, on 26 September 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

It's only advantage is it's speed, if you don't use it tactically don't use it at all. Treat it like a big armoured Medium that can support fast pushes and flanks, and be in front of your friendly Timberwolves and Kit Foxes and Storm Crows.

If someone wants to stay at the back and shoot long range weapons in a Gargoyle, they brought the wrong mech there are much better options for that style of play.

it is a clan mech, that has ranged options *direct fire* that are worth using. if in team play, ranged options work well. and usually, the team that uses their range and maneuverability can win matches consistently. Brawling only mindset for assaults shows lack of tactical thinking in this game.

the gargoyle will have a wonderful place on the battlefield, will require some skill to use, and will have a place in many unit's tactics.

[DoctorDetroit]

If CW drop decks were still planned to be 1/1/1/1 and tonnage limited, the Gargoyle would become a very common sight!
With the removal of 1/1/1/1 restrictions in favor of only tonnage and 4 mech requirement, I think players will just bring an extra Timber Wolf and save 5 tons.

[Draconis March]

Gyrok, on 01 October 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

UAC20 + 4ERML

Will be fine as a big striker...

That'd just be a waste of an assault slot on your team. You can do the same build in a Summoner AND have jump sets.

[Send Bownd an Invite]

Every mech is a Dire Wolf killer imo.

[Jon Gotham]

Redshift2k5, on 26 September 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

It's only advantage is it's speed, if you don't use it tactically don't use it at all. Treat it like a big armoured Medium that can support fast pushes and flanks, and be in front of your friendly Timberwolves and Kit Foxes and Storm Crows.

If someone wants to stay at the back and shoot long range weapons in a Gargoyle, they brought the wrong mech there are much better options for that style of play.

Agreed!
Put x3 Gargoyles and x3 imbawolves together=a world of hurt for your opponents. Played aggressively I predict some major tears incoming:)

[Lily from animove]

Gyrok, on 01 October 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

UAC20 + 4ERML

Will be fine as a big striker...

somehwere in the universe a swarm of Stormcros now giggles

[JayKay17]

The Gargoyle (80 t) is fast, to fast. The engine is so huge that you have a net loss in tonnage towards the Timber Wolf (75 t) of 2 tons. 375xl = 26,5 t, 400xl = 33,5 t.
Second point the Timberwolf has Endo Steel, Gargoyle not. Another 4 tons loss.
And last but not least, the Gargoyle has 1 more fixed heat sink.

So if you put as much armor on the Gargoyle as on the Timber Wolf, your payload is 7 tons lower than on the Timber Wolf at the same speed, that is not very encouraging.

[FearNotDeath]

kamiko kross, on 11 October 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

Agreed!
Put x3 Gargoyles and x3 imbawolves together=a world of hurt for your opponents. Played aggressively I predict some major tears incoming:)

Tears from laughing.

Edited by FearNotDeath, 13 October 2014 - 03:58 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Golden Vulf, on 06 October 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

The weird thing is in other games it came with Endosteel. When Fasa was still making Battletech, when the Gargoyle first appeared it had Endosteel - Dual Lbx 5s, Dual Streak 6s, more armor and a larger laser in the torso. The weaker/cheaper current version of the Gargoyle started to see more production and the original one vanished. I guess after everyone got a hold of some of Clan Wolf's Timberwolf, they only wanted to make cheaper versions of the Gargoyle for 2nd line and Solahma units.

Proof of that claim is needed.

The revised second printing of the original TRO 3050 (which is not to be confused with the separate book TRO 3050, Revised; note the different ISBNs) indicates on page 36 that the base Man O' War always came with Standard Internal Structure & Ferro-Fibrous Armor.

[Pariah Devalis]

Not entirely sure when it happened, but several clan mechs got reconfigured early on if memory serves. I think it had to do with the original loadouts being invalid in the pen and paper mech lab or some such.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 13 October 2014 - 08:40 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

FearNotDeath, on 13 October 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

Tears from laughing.

IF you are one of the imbawolves or trollgoyles yes:P

[JayKay17]

Pariah Devalis, on 13 October 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Not entirely sure when it happened, but several clan mechs got reconfigured early on if memory serves. I think it had to do with the original loadouts being invalid in the pen and paper mech lab or some such.

I have been playing Battletech Tabletop since almost 25 years and can`t remember a Gargoyle with Endosteel.
I even checked my old rulebooks and TRO 3050 (1st Edition, but 3rd printing) and the old record sheet book, that came with the Reinforcements 2 box. No Endosteel for the Gargoyle.
You are right many of the first clan Mechs got reconfigured, because of some calculation "errors" that were made in their configuration, for example endosteel and xl-engines were calculated with quarter tons and not rounded to the next half ton. So in some cases you had a half ton more loadout (the Timber Wolf aka Mad Cat is such an example). But they only fixed these errors and didn´t change the Mechconfiguration.

[Odanan]

JayKay17, on 13 October 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

I have been playing Battletech Tabletop since almost 25 years and can`t remember a Gargoyle with Endosteel.
I even checked my old rulebooks and TRO 3050 (1st Edition, but 3rd printing) and the old record sheet book, that came with the Reinforcements 2 box. No Endosteel for the Gargoyle.
You are right many of the first clan Mechs got reconfigured, because of some calculation "errors" that were made in their configuration, for example endosteel and xl-engines were calculated with quarter tons and not rounded to the next half ton. So in some cases you had a half ton more loadout (the Timber Wolf aka Mad Cat is such an example). But they only fixed these errors and didn´t change the Mechconfiguration.

This.

Timber Wolf Prime had an ER Small Laser in the side torso.
If you play MW2, you will see the pre-fix configurations of the Clan mechs.

[KursedVixen]

Direwolves are nasty in groups and if you are silly enough to stand around long enough it will get you. It's speed is a disadvantage but in a 4 man or higher your likly not going to find a dire wolf alone.

[Odanan]

And people use to say the Gargoyle is a Wolf mech, but it is actually the most common Assault for the Jade falcons too:

(these Falcons must be really good to win with the crappiest mechs out there)

[Featherwood]

Odanan, on 13 October 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

And people use to say the Gargoyle is a Wolf mech, but it is actually the most common Assault for the Jade falcons too:
...
(these Falcons must be really good to win with the crappiest mechs out there)

Exactly, Falcons are damn good warriors if you would look at their conquest results from the perspective of their galaxies composition in comparison to similar indicators of other Wave I Clans - especially Jaguars, who would roll everything in MWO with such a heavy force. On the other hand, such a 'wolf share' of cheezewolves and fatwolves could completely explain Wolves' success during Invasion

Back to the topic now: mock the Gargoyle however you want, I still will be piloting mine. Alt. Config. D for the win!

[Morang]

Odanan, on 13 October 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

And people use to say the Gargoyle is a Wolf mech, but it is actually the most common Assault for the Jade falcons too:

Very interesting, what's the source of the table?

[Odanan]

Morang, on 13 October 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

Very interesting, what's the source of the table?

Links here:

Odanan, on 27 June 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Assignment tables:
[spoiler]MWO IS mechs (year 3039):

The second Draconis Combine column is for Kurita A rated units (they have much more old Star League stuff).

Generally, variants follow the logic: D = Davion, M = Marik, K = Kurita, L = Liao, S = Steiner.

And the Clans, 3050 (invading force):

Info compiled from here and here. (thanks to Sennin for finding these links).

Edited by Odanan, 13 October 2014 - 01:42 PM.

[Odanan]

Featherwood, on 13 October 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

Exactly, Falcons are damn good warriors if you would look at their conquest results from the perspective of their galaxies composition in comparison to similar indicators of other Wave I Clans - especially Jaguars, who would roll everything in MWO with such a heavy force. On the other hand, such a 'wolf share' of cheezewolves and fatwolves could completely explain Wolves' success during Invasion

Back to the topic now: mock the Gargoyle however you want, I still will be piloting mine. Alt. Config. D for the win!

Indeed.
Interesting thing is: Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf are top tier in their classes both in MWO and TT.

And how Kit Fox, Summoner and Gargoyle are bad in both.

Edited by Odanan, 13 October 2014 - 01:46 PM.