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October Road Map - Feedback


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#301 Deathlike

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:54 PM

View Post627, on 29 September 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

whoa, no more LRM60 timberwolves :ph34r:

adapt or die I would say...


The only question I have in mind is, where does the JJ change put mechs with only 2 Jumpjets?
Jester and Huginn come to my mind and in some extend shadowhawks and highlanders with only 3 jets. Seems to be no reason to equip JJs on these mechs anymore.


If the scale is still linear (which it already is now), then you simply adjust the rate of increase for more JJs (aka increasing the slope if you remember basic algebra).

I really don't want to whip out the math links though...

All this would mean is that 1 JJ has a low base, and the rate of increase past that would be significant (which would benefit 2 JJ builds).

Edited by Deathlike, 29 September 2014 - 10:55 PM.


#302 SubXulu

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:59 PM

View Posttheta123, on 29 September 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Give the battlemaster quirks for its medium lasers and MPL! every battlemaster has them one way or another!


And remove the -20%'s to pitch and yaw turn rates on the 1G[P]'s. I never understood why the it has these.

#303 Tarzilman

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:01 PM

I like all the changes, but I like the kind and the frequency of conversation even more.
Thx for that, Russ!

While the Victor has been a Tier 1 mech for a long time and then suddenly disappeared, I'm we'll see those mechs back again on the battlefield. That said I'd love to see mechs like the quickdraw or the awesome at this position (Tier 1), too though, even if it'd be just for a while. :-)
Therefore I'm very curious about the 8Q-PPC-thing and I hope we speak the same language when I say that all quickdraw variants, even the IV-4 hero are Tier 5 mechs and nearly useless at the moment.

Regarding to the awesome, maybe you could reconsider another hitbox tuning (upper shoulder to arm-hitboxes)?

@Clan mech quirks discussion: The IS mech quirks are for balancing among other things. So why talking about clan mech quirks at this stadium? We should first see, how balancing will change with those IS quirks.

Edited by Tarzilman, 30 September 2014 - 12:20 AM.


#304 Zolaz

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:08 PM

Trying to figure out why every Clan mech gets quirks but only some IS do. Besides that looks pretty good. Still think Clan mechs need greater effects for loosing a side torso than a little heat.

#305 Elizander

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:14 PM

I'm glad to see a quick pass on the IS mechs. At the very least, the weapon specific (on stock loadout) quirks will make Tier 5 or similar mechs have a niche in the competitive field if they are equipped with their ideal weapons loadout.

Just prepare for the minority of players that will complain about their favorite mechs not getting the specific quirks that they want and some players who will say "So if I like using the AC/20 I have to pilot a hunchback? Nowai!" and "Why is the HBK a better AC/20 vehicle than my BoomJager/Cat/etc" and "I don't use AC/20s on my HBK why force me to use one?" These are just your typical responses expected from players.

If all mechs were good at everything then we don't need so many, but it's fine if some mechs are good at a specific thing. Looking forward to the quirk system the most since I don't really use JJs much. Heck, I even forget to jump on mechs that have them. :lol:

#306 Franklin Delano Bluth

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:18 PM

This is my first post on the forums but I'm sure I've met a few of you in matches. I have read alot of threads over the past year since I started playing, and I have noticed alot more positivity returning to the game. Keep up the good work with the increased communication and player appreciation events.

#307 Thomas G Wolf

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:39 PM

View PostRise or Die, on 29 September 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Great. Now you ruined all 3 of my Timberwolf builds since EVERYONE uses at least one Timberwolf-S omnipod and no jump jets. And now all three are broken.

If there are more fatal nerfs that break the Timberwolf even more im not playing this game anymore. Ive spend a lot of money the last 2 years for this.


Sorry to bust your bubble but I for one do not use a Timber Wolf S ominpod for my other Timber Wolves, I do not need it, simple as that my Wolves do good with out them having to have the FOM build that most players need to have success with their monster builds, I for one try to stick as close to the orginal build as possible, where a missle should be there is a missle be it SRM or LRM then, this is the challenge for me, and also an imese fun factor getting the max out of each build without destroying its core identety, a Timber Wolf Prime or C were NEVER ment to have JJ end of stroy, you want JJ you buy a S you do not want JJ then play a C or Prime simple as that. What is the use of having 3 different varients if you are going to kit them out the same way? Bloody stupid if you ask me.

I repeat myself I like what PGI are doing now and my wallet will remain open keep up the path you have taken, and I like the inc Oct. changes.

#308 Thorn Hallis

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:47 PM

Thanks for the roadmap.

As long as the penalty for a lost side torso with Clan XL engines will also apply to future Inner Sphere light engines, I'm okay with it.

#309 The Great Unwashed

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:52 PM

I find instant death a well-balanced penalty for IS lights...

#310 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:52 PM

Quote

Fall Damage

I have instructed the team to make a small adjustment to fall damage for Medium and Light class 'Mechs. Currently Medium, Heavy, and Assault class 'Mechs all take falling damage at 35 m/s, with Light class 'Mechs starting at 38 m/s. After some more testing, we have decided to leave Heavy and Assault class'Mechs as they stand, but we will be slightly increasing Medium class 'Mechs to 39 m/s and increasing Lights to 46 m/s.


Fall damage is perfectly fine. Learn to play light mechs.

Quote

I feel this will feel a little bit better for the more mobile Medium 'Mechs and provide a much better feeling for fast-moving jump-capable Lights overall.


No, it'll just allow non-jump-capable mechs to do things they aren't supposed to.

Quote

Jump Jet Thrust

Since the adjustment of JJ thrust, along with fall damage, we have seen 'pop-tarting' gameplay decrease to a much more acceptable level. I think everyone agrees this is a positive step for MWO. However, I think certain 'Mechs, well-represented by the Summoner (who takes 5+ JJ into combat), are not receiving enough of a benefit for taking them into battle. I am going to be making a small adjustment to allow the thrust to increase a little bit faster as you add more JJs. This will make those 'Mechs feel a little more mobile and give more advantage to 'Mechs that dedicate more space to JJ.


Jump jets on heavies and assaults are useless. If you are making a BT game which you so often claim you know that in BT an assault mech with 3-4 JJs jumps FURTHER than it can move during a turn. In your game an assault with 3-4 JJs can barely jump over a 2m tall statue on RiverCity. Unless you make a drastic change the 5 tons of useless on Summoner will remain same 5 tons of useless. Same goes for Highlander, 6-8 tons of complete uselessness. DFA much?

Quote

Jump Jet Turn Rate

While analyzing why certain players still enter combat with as little as 1-2 JJs, we discovered (or at least reminded ourselves) that the JJ turn rate while in the air was the same whether you had 1 JJ or 5+. This is obviously a huge disadvantage for 'Mechs such as the Summoner that have 5 fixed JJs for 5 tons. We are making an adjustment so that the turn rate while in the air while using JJs will increase with the number of JJs equipped. This means that a 'Mech such as the Summoner will have a more appropriate advantage in a brawling situation over a non-jump capable Heavy, or one utilizing far less JJs. This, in combination with the small change in JJ thrust, should mean 'Mechs such as the Summoner will have a more appropriate advantage for its tonnage spent on JJs.


How the fk can a mech turn in air having just one jump jet is beyond me still. 2 years and pending.

Quote

Omnimech Fixed Jump Jet Slots

The current rule for Omnimechs is that slots are set by the Prime variant. For instance, the Prime variant of the Summoner has 5 fixed JJs and this rule is dictated across each variant. We are expanding this rule slightly when it comes specifically to Jump Jets so that the rule is determined by the variant instead. What this can mean, for example, is that the Timber Wolf S variant will come with 5 fixed JJs. This also means that if you are using (again, for example) the Timber Wolf Prime and decide to equip the RT omnipod of the Timber Wolf S you will have 2 fixed Jump Jets and another 2 if you equip the LT omnipod.


Very nice. So how about we bring IS mechs in-line as well? No customization of IS mechs AT ALL seems fair at this point and totally canon.

Quote

This should result in a much more fair relationship between Clan 'Mech variants and chassis.


No, this is just a lazy-ass direct nerf to TimberWolf.

Quote

Destruction of a Clan Side Torso

Although we hope to eventually put in a full engine critical hit system that would affect both IS and Clan 'Mechs, we are going to start out with a change to place some penalty on a Clan 'Mech that loses a side torso. Essentially, there needs to be some penalty for losing 2 critical engine slots. Using the tabletop game as a guideline, we have decided to not make movement a part of the penalty but to save that for some future implementation on the effects of heat on your 'Mechs functionality. A Clan engine has a total of 10 critical engine slots and the destruction of a Side Torso in a clan ‘Mech means the loss of two of those slots, or 20%. With this in mind, we have decided to implement a rule that the destruction of a side torso in a Clan 'Mech will result in a loss of 20% of the engines internal heat sink capacity. By way of example, a Timber Wolf with 15 internal engine heat sinks will lose the cooling equivalent of 3 of those heat sinks. A small penalty, but we feel that heat sink loss along with the loss of everything in that torso and arm will be enough.


Mechs are dieing in matter of 5-10 seconds as is. If you are going to implement engine criticals then it'll only be faster. Movement penalties due to heat are needed.

Quote

Updated Reward System

Since the implementation of the Queue size window, we have been working on an improvement to the reward system to help promote the use of Medium and Light 'Mechs. What we have done is rework the rewards table by adding some brand new rewards, as well as adjusting how the current ones work. Once implemented, it should represent a moderate improvement to the Role Warfare pillar of MWO.


So tell me why this horsecrap keeps going on? Why are there special rewards for lights? Why are there Narc and TAG bonuses during events and no bonuses for LBXs and SRMs? Where are our bonuses for tanking and taking damage? Why only this backstabbing behaviour gets rewarded?

Quote

Inner Sphere Quirk System

The capabilities of the quirk system continue to grow. Our first full quirk pass with the new system has taken the input of several players, including competitive team members. This has allowed us to categorize each Inner Sphere 'Mech, from Tier 1 being the best to Tier 5 being the least competitive. Tier 1 Mech's won't receive any quirks at this point in time, while Tier 5 ‘Mechs will be receiving serious attention. We also made every attempt to give each variant a particular role: e.g. the Hunchback 4G has weapon-specific AC20 quirks, general energy weapon quirks, and Armor/Internal hit point quirks to the right torso. For the greatest impact, players will want to have an AC 20 with energy weapons. Other weapon configurations will still benefit from a subset of the quirks but will prevent the player from reaching the full potential of the variant. We hope to be testing the complete quirk pass by mid-week.


This is a lazy-ass crutch attempt to fix mechs that are broken due to piss-poor design. Solves nothing. There are mechs that are better than others. Deal with it. No amount of quirks will ever fix this.

#311 Kmieciu

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:54 PM

Is sure seems the October is going to be a great month for MWO.

Jump jet thrust and turn changes, along with fall damage adjustments will make jumping medium mechs a more viable choice. They might even match the Timberwolf's agility :-) My Nova will be pretty happy as well. Fixed JJs on a Kit Fox won't affect it much, since nobody uses the S legs anyway.

Thank you Russ for trying to bring more mech variety through quirks. I've got 80 mechbays and I want my mechs to feel different from one another. In the end, they are the "content" of MWO.

Edited by Kmieciu, 29 September 2014 - 11:54 PM.


#312 Levon K

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:56 PM

View PostNikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 September 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

I think certain 'Mechs, well-represented by the Summoner (who takes 5+ JJ into combat), are not receiving enough of a benefit for taking them into battle.

This is obviously a huge disadvantage for 'Mechs such as the Summoner that have 5 fixed JJs for 5 tons.


I love you.

#313 Evil Ed

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:59 PM

Looking forward to see what quirks the Jester will recieve...

#314 Oderint dum Metuant

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 12:02 AM

Locking JJ's to Spods is a bad idea.
Your causing problems elsewhere see the kit fox that is already bad for the sake of hitting the Timberwolf.

Let the summoner remove up to 2 JJ's with the upcoming JJ changes and that will be better.

The kit fox doesn't need to be screwed over in the process

#315 Malleus011

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 12:06 AM

Overall, pleased and impressed by the road map. There are a few changes that may not be exactly right, but these changes also demonstrate a willingness to make changes, observe results, and make further changes as needed, which is encouraging.

I think the proper engine crit system (for all sides) is probably the best way to go, but the suggested side-torso penalty is a good place to start.

By the way, with minimum JJ's not being quite as amazing as they used to be, might the Huginn and Jester have their max JJ cap raised someday?

Edited by Malleus011, 30 September 2014 - 12:07 AM.


#316 BladeXXL

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 12:17 AM

Great news at all!

... but 1 thing:
If Timberwolf lose a side torso, HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT LOOSING 3 HEATSINKS!!!
Because even with 3 less DHS he will never run hot again having just the half of the weapons!!!!!!!!!!

Loosing a side torso clans need 20% less movement ability (speed, turning rate)!!!!!

#317 God of War

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 12:22 AM

everything´s fine exept the push to the thurst rates. Poptarting is still a hugh problem IMO.
All those " PPC + Gauss Madcats dont need another buff. Rework the Targeting during jumps and you dont have to push the JJ.

#318 Xeren KelDar

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 12:23 AM

View PostRuss Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:


You are assuming that the Victor isn't being changed? The Victor negative quirks are being flushed. Of course this immediately puts it in Tier 1 category again so it will not receive additional quirks but yes the negative ones have been flushed.



I like this. The JJ changes look promising and may be what's needed, but would quirks be able to help with the mobility of certain mechs as well? The Victor and Summoner aren't heavy hitters, but rather mobile weapon platforms in lore. Other mechs in their weight class could carry more firepower. The ability to get anywhere with their firepower was how those two mechs made their names.

Something that allows them to be "mobile brawlers" and not poptarts would be welcome I think. It would fit with other quirks you referenced (like Awesome getting PPC buffs) and fit in with the lore and history of the mech. It may not be needed after the JJ change, but could be something to keep an eye on.

#319 Ens

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 12:27 AM

looking forward to all of this, let´s see how it turns out

#320 JD R

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 12:37 AM

I dont know how to say but

HAW HAW the Madcat get nerved!

I like it bring the kittens back to their place.

Good job PGI!





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