can we possibly fix LRMs. im personally a little tired of being able to walk across alpine on the missiles at all times. they need more of a spread to them now that they have their faster speed to help reduce them coring straight thru everything
28
744 replies to this topic
#542
-
-
- 187 posts
Member
Posted 05 October 2014 - 07:04 PM
For the love of all things holy, fix the steaming pile of crap that the Awesome has become.
#543
-
-
- Talon
- 2,007 posts
Member
Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:05 AM
[color=#000000]
So I was reading through the Town Hall stuff and whilst I do think quirks are a good way to try and lift the not so good variants I noticed a disturbing trend. Most of the quirks given as examples were specific weapon quirks.[/color]
[color=#000000]
This may seem like a cool idea but it really kills build diversity. One of the big (out of very few) advantages of having IS mechs is that you have more freedom in the mechlab. What it looks like quirks will do is "this Dragon is now an ac2 Dragon" or "these mechs should only ever use an ac20 as their ballistic" etc...making every other possible build on the mech EXTREMELY sub optimal. Optimizing a mech for your playstyle is no longer a thing...instead you have to pick out the specific mech that has been designed to suit your playstyle and if you deviate from the quirks you are giving up large advantages (and they will not be small else this whole exercise would be entirely pointless). So if you prefer a chassis, like the hardpoint loadout, but want to use say an AC10 instead of an AC20 to give a little better heat and range...no longer an option...you will be giving up so much...so in an effort to create more mech diversity we kill build diversity...which does not need to happen!![/color]
[color=#000000]
The people that pick non tier 1 mechs are those that like to experiment with builds and find their own niche...the ones so against cookie cutter builds...and you turn all those mechs into cookie cutter only builds...[/color]
[color=#000000]
Even if you take a Dragon that fires an AC10 like a Gauss...it is still a Dragon and will suffer from what makes a Dragon not optimal...but you basically make people look really stupid using any other build then the AC10 (and medlas is pretty much all you can put with that).[/color]
[color=#000000]
Buffs to Autocannons are cool, or Lock on time for LRMs/SSRMs etc, or speed increase on SRMs a huge variety of movement buffs including speed, turning, twisting, yaw etc or health/armour buffs is great. But specific weapons basically kills build diversity and takes a lot away from this game IMO. That kind of thing should not even be thought of unless it is a tier 5 mech and even then only as a last resort but the impression I got was it looked like it would be pretty standard to make any underperforming mech about "this specific weapon" killing any choices people really have when trying to build them. Not only that but you take it away from other mechs as well...If LRMs or AC2s are so much better on one individial mech (or 2) especially for long range things (so hardpoint placement and hit boxes and speed are less of a factor), then you actually make people more reluctant to use them on other mechs. Why bother taking LRMs on a mech really suited to LRMing if they get a load of buffs from being on this chassis of this mech...you would just be better off spending millions of cbills and hours grinding xp to master that individual chassis which you may not like at all for a large number of reasons labled "LRM mech #1" or "AC2/10/20 mech #1" etc.[/color]
[color=#000000]
Please PGI only use specific weapon buffs as a very last resort on not even all tier 5 mechs (as there seems to be a lot of them). At least small groups of weapons allows for at least a bit of freedom in the mechlab and not just basically removing alternate builds from any mech lower then tier 3 or whatever it is.[/color]
copied from reddit, my bad on formatting.
So I was reading through the Town Hall stuff and whilst I do think quirks are a good way to try and lift the not so good variants I noticed a disturbing trend. Most of the quirks given as examples were specific weapon quirks.[/color]
[color=#000000]
This may seem like a cool idea but it really kills build diversity. One of the big (out of very few) advantages of having IS mechs is that you have more freedom in the mechlab. What it looks like quirks will do is "this Dragon is now an ac2 Dragon" or "these mechs should only ever use an ac20 as their ballistic" etc...making every other possible build on the mech EXTREMELY sub optimal. Optimizing a mech for your playstyle is no longer a thing...instead you have to pick out the specific mech that has been designed to suit your playstyle and if you deviate from the quirks you are giving up large advantages (and they will not be small else this whole exercise would be entirely pointless). So if you prefer a chassis, like the hardpoint loadout, but want to use say an AC10 instead of an AC20 to give a little better heat and range...no longer an option...you will be giving up so much...so in an effort to create more mech diversity we kill build diversity...which does not need to happen!![/color]
[color=#000000]
The people that pick non tier 1 mechs are those that like to experiment with builds and find their own niche...the ones so against cookie cutter builds...and you turn all those mechs into cookie cutter only builds...[/color]
[color=#000000]
Even if you take a Dragon that fires an AC10 like a Gauss...it is still a Dragon and will suffer from what makes a Dragon not optimal...but you basically make people look really stupid using any other build then the AC10 (and medlas is pretty much all you can put with that).[/color]
[color=#000000]
Buffs to Autocannons are cool, or Lock on time for LRMs/SSRMs etc, or speed increase on SRMs a huge variety of movement buffs including speed, turning, twisting, yaw etc or health/armour buffs is great. But specific weapons basically kills build diversity and takes a lot away from this game IMO. That kind of thing should not even be thought of unless it is a tier 5 mech and even then only as a last resort but the impression I got was it looked like it would be pretty standard to make any underperforming mech about "this specific weapon" killing any choices people really have when trying to build them. Not only that but you take it away from other mechs as well...If LRMs or AC2s are so much better on one individial mech (or 2) especially for long range things (so hardpoint placement and hit boxes and speed are less of a factor), then you actually make people more reluctant to use them on other mechs. Why bother taking LRMs on a mech really suited to LRMing if they get a load of buffs from being on this chassis of this mech...you would just be better off spending millions of cbills and hours grinding xp to master that individual chassis which you may not like at all for a large number of reasons labled "LRM mech #1" or "AC2/10/20 mech #1" etc.[/color]
[color=#000000]
Please PGI only use specific weapon buffs as a very last resort on not even all tier 5 mechs (as there seems to be a lot of them). At least small groups of weapons allows for at least a bit of freedom in the mechlab and not just basically removing alternate builds from any mech lower then tier 3 or whatever it is.[/color]
copied from reddit, my bad on formatting.
Edited by Wispsy, 06 October 2014 - 07:05 AM.
#544
-
-
- The Warden
- 769 posts
Member
- Locationsomewhere in the universe, probably
Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:27 AM
Wispsy, on 06 October 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:
So I was reading through the Town Hall stuff and whilst I do think quirks are a good way to try and lift the not so good variants I noticed a disturbing trend. Most of the quirks given as examples were specific weapon quirks.
This may seem like a cool idea but it really kills build diversity. One of the big (out of very few) advantages of having IS mechs is that you have more freedom in the mechlab. What it looks like quirks will do is "this Dragon is now an ac2 Dragon" or "these mechs should only ever use an ac20 as their ballistic" etc...making every other possible build on the mech EXTREMELY sub optimal. Optimizing a mech for your playstyle is no longer a thing...instead you have to pick out the specific mech that has been designed to suit your playstyle and if you deviate from the quirks you are giving up large advantages (and they will not be small else this whole exercise would be entirely pointless). So if you prefer a chassis, like the hardpoint loadout, but want to use say an AC10 instead of an AC20 to give a little better heat and range...no longer an option...you will be giving up so much...so in an effort to create more mech diversity we kill build diversity...which does not need to happen!!
The people that pick non tier 1 mechs are those that like to experiment with builds and find their own niche...the ones so against cookie cutter builds...and you turn all those mechs into cookie cutter only builds...
Even if you take a Dragon that fires an AC10 like a Gauss...it is still a Dragon and will suffer from what makes a Dragon not optimal...but you basically make people look really stupid using any other build then the AC10 (and medlas is pretty much all you can put with that).
Buffs to Autocannons are cool, or Lock on time for LRMs/SSRMs etc, or speed increase on SRMs a huge variety of movement buffs including speed, turning, twisting, yaw etc or health/armour buffs is great. But specific weapons basically kills build diversity and takes a lot away from this game IMO. That kind of thing should not even be thought of unless it is a tier 5 mech and even then only as a last resort but the impression I got was it looked like it would be pretty standard to make any underperforming mech about "this specific weapon" killing any choices people really have when trying to build them. Not only that but you take it away from other mechs as well...If LRMs or AC2s are so much better on one individial mech (or 2) especially for long range things (so hardpoint placement and hit boxes and speed are less of a factor), then you actually make people more reluctant to use them on other mechs. Why bother taking LRMs on a mech really suited to LRMing if they get a load of buffs from being on this chassis of this mech...you would just be better off spending millions of cbills and hours grinding xp to master that individual chassis which you may not like at all for a large number of reasons labled "LRM mech #1" or "AC2/10/20 mech #1" etc.
Please PGI only use specific weapon buffs as a very last resort on not even all tier 5 mechs (as there seems to be a lot of them). At least small groups of weapons allows for at least a bit of freedom in the mechlab and not just basically removing alternate builds from any mech lower then tier 3 or whatever it is.
copied from reddit, my bad on formatting.
Very true.
And especially true in some cases. The Ac2 Dragon quirk is a good example. It's not gonna help with the Dragon's main problems and on top of taking advantage of the buffed Dragon variant means you must use the Ac2. A garbage weapon.
But even if the Ac2 somehow became a good weapon, you still have a situation in which someone who hates the Ac2 still realistically has to use it while leveling the Dragons. Which is horribly annyoing as you aren't forced into such choices with the good mechs. It's like leveling the A1 when you don't like LRMs. A pain.
#545
-
-
- 645 posts
Member
Posted 06 October 2014 - 08:21 AM
Your logic cuts both ways.
Yes to min/max the build you need to use Weapon X but the variant hasn't gotten Worse, in fact its still better from all the other non weapon specific quirks.
So no people aren't being forced to do anything. You can still build however you want. There is incentive to build to maximize the quirks but the mech doesn't magically suck more than it ever did if you don't take advantage of every last one.
Lets take the LCT-1V quirks we know about.
You can't build a 4 x MG 1V if you want to take advantage of the ERLL quirk.
But even if you build a 4 x MG LCT-1V with those quirks you still gain:
100% structure legs
50% armor arms
accel 25%
decel 50%
B weapon range
E weapon range (for your ML or MPL or whatever)
So the LCT-1V 4x MG is still a better mech than it was. It hasn't be nerfed or ruined or anything of the sort. Are you failing to take advantage of the full quirk pass? Yes ofc. But acting like customization has been ruined is silly.
Yes to min/max the build you need to use Weapon X but the variant hasn't gotten Worse, in fact its still better from all the other non weapon specific quirks.
So no people aren't being forced to do anything. You can still build however you want. There is incentive to build to maximize the quirks but the mech doesn't magically suck more than it ever did if you don't take advantage of every last one.
Lets take the LCT-1V quirks we know about.
You can't build a 4 x MG 1V if you want to take advantage of the ERLL quirk.
But even if you build a 4 x MG LCT-1V with those quirks you still gain:
100% structure legs
50% armor arms
accel 25%
decel 50%
B weapon range
E weapon range (for your ML or MPL or whatever)
So the LCT-1V 4x MG is still a better mech than it was. It hasn't be nerfed or ruined or anything of the sort. Are you failing to take advantage of the full quirk pass? Yes ofc. But acting like customization has been ruined is silly.
#546
-
-
- The 1 Percent
- 3,855 posts
Member
- LocationMaryland, USA
Posted 06 October 2014 - 12:22 PM
Nothing re: the Information Warfare pillar? And rewards for that role?
#547
-
-
- Talon
- 2,007 posts
Member
Posted 06 October 2014 - 12:32 PM
Hoax415, on 06 October 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:
Your logic cuts both ways.
Yes to min/max the build you need to use Weapon X but the variant hasn't gotten Worse, in fact its still better from all the other non weapon specific quirks.
So no people aren't being forced to do anything. You can still build however you want. There is incentive to build to maximize the quirks but the mech doesn't magically suck more than it ever did if you don't take advantage of every last one.
Lets take the LCT-1V quirks we know about.
You can't build a 4 x MG 1V if you want to take advantage of the ERLL quirk.
But even if you build a 4 x MG LCT-1V with those quirks you still gain:
100% structure legs
50% armor arms
accel 25%
decel 50%
B weapon range
E weapon range (for your ML or MPL or whatever)
So the LCT-1V 4x MG is still a better mech than it was. It hasn't be nerfed or ruined or anything of the sort. Are you failing to take advantage of the full quirk pass? Yes ofc. But acting like customization has been ruined is silly.
Yes to min/max the build you need to use Weapon X but the variant hasn't gotten Worse, in fact its still better from all the other non weapon specific quirks.
So no people aren't being forced to do anything. You can still build however you want. There is incentive to build to maximize the quirks but the mech doesn't magically suck more than it ever did if you don't take advantage of every last one.
Lets take the LCT-1V quirks we know about.
You can't build a 4 x MG 1V if you want to take advantage of the ERLL quirk.
But even if you build a 4 x MG LCT-1V with those quirks you still gain:
100% structure legs
50% armor arms
accel 25%
decel 50%
B weapon range
E weapon range (for your ML or MPL or whatever)
So the LCT-1V 4x MG is still a better mech than it was. It hasn't be nerfed or ruined or anything of the sort. Are you failing to take advantage of the full quirk pass? Yes ofc. But acting like customization has been ruined is silly.
Wait so why does it need the LL specific quirk?
Why is that necessary (and lets be honest, if you are in a dragon and see "BIG BUFF TO AC20 ON THIS VARIANT" you are much more likely to go "well **** me, why would I not use an AC20 here?")...The mech does not suck more, but it it is most definitely a "lower tier" mech then if you use the weapon specific quirk. The Locust especially you can give an energy buff to it, or ballistics because it really does not matter which energy weapon you put in there...but to give it large laser only? Well you are shooting yourself in the foot if you do not use a Large Laser.
Literally discouraging build diversity just for the sake of it.
Edited by Wispsy, 06 October 2014 - 12:34 PM.
#548
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 100 posts
Member
- LocationNew York, NY
Posted 07 October 2014 - 07:39 AM
Sorry if I missed it, but did Russ ever provide additional info around the following? I'd like to know more about how we can get better balance in the queue.
Updated Reward System
[color=#00FFFF]Since the implementation of the Queue size window, we have been working on an improvement to the reward system to help promote the use of Medium and Light 'Mechs. What we have done is rework the rewards table by adding some brand new rewards, as well as adjusting how the current ones work. Once implemented, it should represent a moderate improvement to the Role Warfare pillar of MWO.[/color]
Updated Reward System
[color=#00FFFF]Since the implementation of the Queue size window, we have been working on an improvement to the reward system to help promote the use of Medium and Light 'Mechs. What we have done is rework the rewards table by adding some brand new rewards, as well as adjusting how the current ones work. Once implemented, it should represent a moderate improvement to the Role Warfare pillar of MWO.[/color]
#549
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 2,530 posts
Member
- LocationNorway
Posted 07 October 2014 - 11:14 AM
Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 September 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:
Jump Jet Thrust
Since the adjustment of JJ thrust, along with fall damage, we have seen 'pop-tarting' gameplay decrease to a much more acceptable level. I think everyone agrees this is a positive step for MWO. However, I think certain 'Mechs, well-represented by the Summoner (who takes 5+ JJ into combat), are not receiving enough of a benefit for taking them into battle. I am going to be making a small adjustment to allow the thrust to increase a little bit faster as you add more JJs. This will make those 'Mechs feel a little more mobile and give more advantage to 'Mechs that dedicate more space to JJ.
ETA: Oct 7th patch.
Since the adjustment of JJ thrust, along with fall damage, we have seen 'pop-tarting' gameplay decrease to a much more acceptable level. I think everyone agrees this is a positive step for MWO. However, I think certain 'Mechs, well-represented by the Summoner (who takes 5+ JJ into combat), are not receiving enough of a benefit for taking them into battle. I am going to be making a small adjustment to allow the thrust to increase a little bit faster as you add more JJs. This will make those 'Mechs feel a little more mobile and give more advantage to 'Mechs that dedicate more space to JJ.
ETA: Oct 7th patch.
Maybe next patch.
#550
-
-
- The 1 Percent
- 642 posts
Member
- LocationAustin, Texas
Posted 07 October 2014 - 10:54 PM
Wait a minute. Is this a Mech roadmap or a game roadmap. If it's a mech road map, Great!!!!@@#!@#!@#!@#!~!!
If it is a game road map, where are the other doo dads?
Rock on.
If it is a game road map, where are the other doo dads?
Rock on.
#551
-
-
- Bridesmaid
- 590 posts
Member
- LocationOutreach - Shopping of course!
Posted 08 October 2014 - 07:12 AM
Please please please don't mess up the Timber-S with fixed slots.
Remember those torso's also come with 2 missile 1 ballistic on left and right with an energy on the right. If you fix the jjets its going to nerf the buildability of the Mech, artemis will become more difficult to fit, 4 missile racks will be impossible to fit unless a ballistic is sacrificed, UAC5/SRM4 builds would be impossible. 4 LRM10 builds impossible.
You're forgetting that the Summoner has its fixed jjets in the LEGS making build options more flexible, the timber doesn't have that luxury.
The Timber Wolf is THE most flexible of all the clan heavies it's basically the go to heavy Mech, if you are adamant on fixing jjet slots, fix the center torso slot and one in the left and right torso forcing 3 fixed jjets leaving build options as flexible as they are now.
Remember those torso's also come with 2 missile 1 ballistic on left and right with an energy on the right. If you fix the jjets its going to nerf the buildability of the Mech, artemis will become more difficult to fit, 4 missile racks will be impossible to fit unless a ballistic is sacrificed, UAC5/SRM4 builds would be impossible. 4 LRM10 builds impossible.
You're forgetting that the Summoner has its fixed jjets in the LEGS making build options more flexible, the timber doesn't have that luxury.
The Timber Wolf is THE most flexible of all the clan heavies it's basically the go to heavy Mech, if you are adamant on fixing jjet slots, fix the center torso slot and one in the left and right torso forcing 3 fixed jjets leaving build options as flexible as they are now.
Edited by GlycerineOxide, 08 October 2014 - 07:15 AM.
#552
-
-
- Civil Servant
- 11,152 posts
Member
- LocationStomping around in a giant robot, of course.
Posted 08 October 2014 - 09:33 AM
Quote
. I don't see anyone complaining that Medium Lasers don't have a 10-second cooldown, after all.
Canonically, ML's actually have a cooldown cycle of roughly 2.5 seconds (Solaris VII rulebook- recharge time of "1") between shots. Tournament rules squash anything with under 10 seconds of reload time into "fires once per turn" for simplification.
Maybe if more people had a more comprehensive knowledge of all the rules, we'd have fewer people trying to reinvent the wheel.
#553
-
-
- Mercenary Rank 4
- 84 posts
Member
Posted 13 October 2014 - 05:50 AM
YueFei, on 01 October 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:
If anything, Medium mechs should have their *agility* emphasized. Agility is not the same as top speed.
Improving acceleration, deceleration and turning on mediums would be a big help to their viability. (and fun!)
Like YueFei goes on to say, they don't need top speed so much as footwork.
Also, to everyone that is concerned about weapon-specific buffs in the quirk pass: We all hear and understand your concerns, but we can have a much more interesting conversation about it when we aren't speculating about how it will really work.
One of the funnest things about the quirks idea is that the min-max crowd will be in fits for months trying to decide what the "best" mechs are. And then you can retune the quirks!
#555
-
-
- The Phoenix
- 111 posts
Member
- LocationDresden
Posted 14 October 2014 - 11:59 AM
update today about 1 hour ago.
Thanks Russ for keeping us on the line of information. It is good to know whats coming with the next patch and whats delayed because of some unexpected bug squeezing.
So put on your best exterminator gear and squeeze away.
And I am quite curious about the new reward system.
Thanks Russ for keeping us on the line of information. It is good to know whats coming with the next patch and whats delayed because of some unexpected bug squeezing.
So put on your best exterminator gear and squeeze away.
And I am quite curious about the new reward system.
#556
-
-
- The Messenger
- 63 posts
Member
Posted 14 October 2014 - 12:19 PM
Thank you for keeping us updated on the incoming features. Little disappointed IS quirks have been moved farther up the line seeing as they desperately need them. But ill still be here waiting. Keep up the good work.
#557
-
-
- 338 posts
Member
Posted 14 October 2014 - 12:21 PM
Cion, on 14 October 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:
Quirks pushed to Nov 4...
Gaaar--really looking forward to seeing this. I almost can't bear the antici
#558
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 3,836 posts
Member
Posted 14 October 2014 - 12:42 PM
Nov. 4th for quirks? PGI you are a bunch of liars and deceivers!!! 
I can wait for the quirks, but do you think we could get a list of what they will be, or at least what the quirks for the tier 5 mechs are?
I can wait for the quirks, but do you think we could get a list of what they will be, or at least what the quirks for the tier 5 mechs are?
#559
-
-
- The Determined
- 1,190 posts
Member
Posted 14 October 2014 - 01:04 PM
While I was hoping for 21 Oct, they need to get this right. I don't like the delay, but now that I've said my piece, I'm done complaining about it.
#560
-
-
- 661 posts
Member
Posted 14 October 2014 - 02:28 PM
Am I the only one that doesn't think the quirks will make much of a difference? I'm on the fence for the next few patches ... I'm more of a content (maps, game modes, CW, etc) type of guy =)
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
