131 replies to this topic

[Project_Mercy]

Destructicus, on 30 September 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

Op also has a thread about how he dies in the Direwolf too much, the general consensus there is that he likes to run into the middle of fights.

If he did that he might like TT, because at least SOMEONE would push into the caldera instead of everyone fouling on the entrance and eating a strike.

I actually think TT is an interesting map, it's just that it's not conducive to anything less than a 12-man, because it actually requires some leadership to succeed at regularly, along with a modicum of tactics. A lot of the maps are interesting maps, but not well designed for solo or low-man group entries. Certain maps heavily weigh in favor of certain sides depending on spawns. River City (RC Night) also being one of those.

It doesn't really need removal, it just needs a few changes to encourage some movement on the players side. TT always turns into "rush the caldera" until people realize they've lost that rush, then they mill about under the auspices of "flanking". The tedium of it is astoundingly boring. It needs something to mix it up. Putting in some reason to make holding the caldera a risk (like gouts of lava shooting up that worked like arti strikes) would add a lot to it. Sure, you can try to hold that point, but there's risk involved.

River CIty has the same issue with the citadel. The river funnels people into it, but it's difficult to get out in any fashion that results in something useful. So people just end up clustring around the "citadel" popping in and out. It's tactically viable, but it's REALLY BORING. Due to the bridge-side sometimes being a spawn (or not) people end up not really figuring out any of the other strats. Putting a few additional ramps on the river side (to stop punishing non-JJ mechs) and a ramp up to the top of the "citadel" from the river side would facilitate this some.

You could go on with Caustic, Alpine, etc.

Really, for some reason I can't figure out, people have a tendency to flock to one side of their spawns and then rotate around the maps. The new one is horrible for this beause of the a/c/e line funnels. Doing something to change up the "flow" of people would add a lot to making a map more useful.

You don't need a huge number of maps, you just need maps that require people to change up their tactics and style sometimes so you don't go "Oh, this is X , let's run YY line and do that thing we ALWAYS DO." I do think the new map at least does a better job of some of this, but the line funnels limit an otherwise great map. Additionally, it would be nice if solo play was actually taken into account as a serious concern on this (and every other) decision when making assets for the game, because repetitive encounters of everyone hiding behind a building and popping out 1-by-1 to die do not really result in people warming up to the game. Or, if you're going to have game mods or maps that aren't conducive to 12 disconnected players per side, remove them from the solo queue rotation.

Edited by Wraeththix Constantine, 30 September 2014 - 09:24 AM.

[Kain Demos]

I tend to run very hot 'mechs so Terra Therma is not one of my favorites either.

However, my main issue with it is because I PUG only and struggle to keep teams from committing suicide in Mt. Doom.

[Voidcrafter]

I completely agree with the topic though I know something very well...
Deleting it would be extreme - but not having the option just to NOT drop there is kinda extreme too...
Same goes for Alpine Peaks in my book.
Tis not about the long distances or/and the heat generation - it's about the overall map design.
I dislike it.
Not having the option to NOT endure it just to drop in another match(well... aside from leaving the game and letting the enemy team slightly handicapped while NOT being able to play with my favorite mech...) is really, really, really(insert X number of "really"-ies here) annoying, frustrating, pushing etc.
And hey - I don't go boating stuff, neither I like builds that have serious drawbacks(like not being effective when target Y is above zz meters, wanna hint?).

Soo lets face it - those who defend this map try to look at it from another point of view:
Are you 100% sure that you like every. single. map. in the game?
Aint there 1 or two maps that you would just love to NOT drop to?
If not so - do you think you're the majority of the community?
For me it's clear like a New Vegas's day
Sort of.

[Rebas Kradd]

OP is actually running a dual gauss/dual PPC Dire Wolf. (I know this because I told my team to focus him yesterday once I saw his build, and he started complaining about it over chat. )

Dire Wolves aren't fun on Terra Therma. They're hot, they're vulnerable, they're slow, and they don't have a lot of pitch.

But given that Terra Therma is the only map that offers any potential for the four pillars, I can't envision getting rid of it. I don't like the constant heat or the inclines, but its design is underrated.

[Kain Demos]

Rebas Kradd, on 30 September 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

OP is actually running a dual gauss/dual PPC Dire Wolf. (I know this because I told my team to focus him yesterday once I saw his build, and he started complaining about it over chat. )

Dire Wolves aren't fun on Terra Therma. They're hot, they're vulnerable, they're slow, and they don't have a lot of pitch.

But given that Terra Therma is the only map that offers any potential for the four pillars, I can't envision getting rid of it. I don't like the constant heat or the inclines, but its design is underrated.

Oh I very much appreciate the size and the design. I just hate the heat troubles (which alone I have no problem with since it is both lore and a gameplay core aspect) when they are combined with mindless PUGs that doesn't listen to reason.

[Mystere]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 30 September 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

One of the most pathetic, terrible maps ever.

I love Terra Therma. It separates players who understand fire discipline and heat management from the chaff.

[Bilbo]

Kain Thul, on 30 September 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

I tend to run very hot 'mechs so Terra Therma is not one of my favorites either.

However, my main issue with it is because I PUG only and struggle to keep teams from committing suicide in Mt. Doom.

The suicide doesn't happen in Mt. Doom. The suicide happens when you stop at the entrance and try to peek into it over and over and over...

[Mystere]

Wraeththix Constantine, on 30 September 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

It doesn't really need removal, it just needs a few changes to encourage some movement on the players side. TT always turns into "rush the caldera" until people realize they've lost that rush, then they mill about under the auspices of "flanking". The tedium of it is astoundingly boring. It needs something to mix it up. Putting in some reason to make holding the caldera a risk (like gouts of lava shooting up that worked like arti strikes) would add a lot to it. Sure, you can try to hold that point, but there's risk involved.

If the enemy has already taken the caldera, why not regroup outside at a favorable location and make the enemy come out?

Well, because so many players are so ******* impatient, that is why! So serves them right for dying like flies in that map.

The same holds true for Hamburger Hill in Alpine Peaks and the Citadel in River City.

Edited by Mystere, 30 September 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[Jabilo]

I hate Terra Therma.

[Project_Mercy]

Kain Thul, on 30 September 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

when they are combined with mindless PUGs that doesn't listen to reason.

It's not as much a reason issue as a playstyle issue. One side is closer to charging the caldera based on the spawns. They also have the widest of the entrances to the caldera which makes pushing easier. In solo queue, that side will win the caldera. And because they win the center, they will instinctually deathball up and be the first to respond to sallys to things like conquest points. The only option you have otherwise is to stay out of it and wait. While I don't mind this, plenty of people don't feel a game should be about standing around, and so they're going to charge the choke points and die. There's nothing wrong with their play style. Discouraging them from this game just limits your player base drastically.

In group play this is obviously mitigated by just forcing a solid push, but in that case a few people in the group are sacrificing themselves for the good of the group. It would be uncommon if you would find someone who dropped in solo queue who was fine with dying early and with very little damage, consistently, for the good of the group. I know they exist, but it's not something that the average PUGer is going to rely on.

At least in public solo queue matches, to some extent there are 23 other meatshields. Some you temporarily are not shooting, but you will eventually shoot them. Beyond personality, there's no real reason to develop any comradiery or teamship with an ad hoc group of people with varying degrees of capability compared to you and who you may never run into again.

It's the design of the game which encourages people to do positive things. MWO does not do this. The maps are designed around, "I think this would be a good scenario in group play" but once the map is out, there doesn't seem to be a lot of attention to looking at heat maps and such and modifying the map to actually be good for solo as well as group play. In fact, having seperate maps for the queues would be ideal.

Edited by Wraeththix Constantine, 30 September 2014 - 10:14 AM.

[Sandpit]

Great feedback OP, care to show me the numbers where "most" don't like this map? From what I've seen in your very thread, it's quite the opposite

[Bhael Fire]

Terra Therma is an awesome map.

One of my favorites. Looks the best out of all the maps and can be extremely fun if you're matched with good players.

Actually, I'd love to have a day time version of it, with falling ash and smoke everywhere.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 30 September 2014 - 10:12 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Bilbo, on 30 September 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

The suicide doesn't happen in Mt. Doom. The suicide happens when you stop at the entrance and try to peek into it over and over and over...

True. Sometimes I'll see as many as 8 people clustered up and just let themselves get picked apart by snipers and artillery before they go in and by that point its already been decided.


I actually played with you in it the other night in a close match. I think it was Friday night where we pushed through it (you were in your Atlas I was in a Dire Wolf) and were on the verge of winning I thought but when we pursued them out of the volcano they won the fight just outside of it. It was a close one.

Edited by Kain Thul, 30 September 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[Piney II]

If you want to take the ring, it's a gamble and requires a serious commitment. Push straight in with your hair on fire with every mech you can muster. Don't stop at the entrance to shoot. Mechs go right and left.............................shooting with extreme prejudice and malice at heart.

Bunching up and standing at the door is not taking the ring and will only get the team picked off one at a time.

[990Dreams]

No actual feedback, no supporting reasons, no logic, essentially plain flat out stupid.

0 points for a real post. 100 points for a troll.

[Clint Steel]

KraftySOT, on 30 September 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

Therma is a litmus test for munchkins.

Everyone who hates it, hates it because their mechs run hot and they cant blast away willy nilly like COD.

We need MORE hot maps, not less. rofl...delete it from rotation. DELETE YOU from rotation.

Its like having the Baycity Rollers on the Jukebox in your bar.

Profiling purposes.

I have no problem with the heat (in fact the level is cooler than Tourmaline by 2 C, which most people like)

[Bigbacon]

people just hate it because they can't control their trigger fingers....

I like the map...I just hate the way it is player 99.9999% of the time.

it offer such a great array of places to fight in and out of but both teams just rush to middle, one gets in first, the other stacks in the choke point and you all know how it goes.

Edited by Bigbacon, 30 September 2014 - 10:55 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Clint Steel, on 30 September 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

I have no problem with the heat (in fact the level is cooler than Tourmaline by 2 C, which most people like)

Pretty sure I run much hotter on Terra Therma. I believe they actually scale the heat to go higher the closer you are to the lava so if you're in the Volcano or even worse, IN the Volcano you will ahve some issues even firing at all.

[Sean von Steinike]

I like Terra Therma just fine.

[Almond Brown]

Fut, on 30 September 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

Because Terra Therma is the type of environment that Humans would want to build a little city in...

Hey, the Lava people have to live somewhere too. lol