647 replies to this topic

[Revis Volek]

warner2, on 30 September 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

In terms of assaults the ones that stick out are the three CBill Victor variants. There is no way they are tier 1. It's the Dragon Slayer that works well at range and the variant the competitive teams are using. The other Victors have low slung arms and don't work well at range at all. Perhaps things have changed a little but I don't recall seeing the competitive teams using the CBill Victor variants even with the recent balance changes? The tier 2 assaults seem OK because the competitive teams are using D-DCs, Miseries and other Stalkers, and 733Cs in niche roles. Who is using the CBill Victors? At best they are tier 2 with their role being decent brawlers but even then that would exclude the 9K which can't take an AC20 or 2 UAC5. I'd say only the Dragon Slayer is worthy of being a tier 1 IS assault.

The 9S or B (cant remember) is pretty much the same thing.....the DS just has a cool paint job. All VTR's were badass' until the neg quirks i await the day when i will once again be able to take out other assault mechs with my VTR.

Edited by DarthRevis, 30 September 2014 - 02:07 PM.

[warner2]

Pizzadog, on 30 September 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

The QKD-5K should be with its brothers in tier 4.

And it should take the Dragon with it

DarthRevis, on 30 September 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

The 9S or B (cant remember) is pretty much the same thing.....the DS just has a cool paint job. All VTR's were badass' until the neg quirks i await the day when i will once again be able to take out other assault mechs with my VTR.

The 9B and 9S are very similar but neither are the same as a Dragon Slayer. The DS has all of the weapons on the one side so it is great at peeking around cover, has better convergence, as well as still being able to jump-snipe OK with 4 JJs. The CBill Victors are not the same at all and it's not a coincidence all the teams field DS not CBill Victors.

[Tomcat0815]

1453 R, on 30 September 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I will state that as a (pre-Clan) Trebuchet pilot, my eyebrows sailed northwards when I saw that the Loup de Guerre was rated as being a tier above all the rest of the Trebuchets.

Piloting Trebuchets a lot, I really think it is the best one, at least for me. With 2 SRM6, 1 SRM4, 1 SRM2, all with Artemis and no ghost heat, 2 MLasers and AMS and a speed of above 100 km/h, I like it a lot.

And that paint job, too.

[Victor Morson]

I actually like this, and the list looks solid. I've been long a supporter of adding 'mech quirks to rescue dead variants, and it looks like all the dead variants are now 5th tier.

It would have been VERY easy to dangle brand new 'mechs as 5th Tier "buy now" things, so seeing 'mechs like the Awesome and Dragon headlining it is very positive, indeed.

+1.

[Pjwned]

Adiuvo, on 30 September 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

ALRM5x6.

I was under the impression that having a number of small launchers with Artemis wasn't particularly good due to the limited benefit of Artemis there.

Russ Bullock, on 30 September 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

Will be monitoring feedback but not commenting a lot - if we hear swaying arguments we will do some shifting around

That makes sense.

[Gas Guzzler]

warner2, on 30 September 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

And it should take the Dragon with it


The 9B and 9S are very similar but neither are the same as a Dragon Slayer. The DS has all of the weapons on the one side so it is great at peeking around cover, has better convergence, as well as still being able to jump-snipe OK with 4 JJs. The CBill Victors are not the same at all and it's not a coincidence all the teams field DS not CBill Victors.

After the quirks are flushed the C-Bill variants will be great brawlers. With a big XL, AC 20, SRMs and MPLs... its great. Or the 9K running the same build but with Gauss is also great.

[Bilbo]

Pjwned, on 30 September 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

I was under the impression that having a number of small launchers with Artemis wasn't particularly good due to the limited benefit of Artemis there.



That makes sense.

Lock time, on a mech that carries nothing but missiles anyway.

[Adiuvo]

Pjwned, on 30 September 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

I was under the impression that having a number of small launchers with Artemis wasn't particularly good due to the limited benefit of Artemis there.

LRM5s with Artemis burrow directly into the CT. Trevelyas actually used the missile spread values to work out effective damage with and without artemis. I'll poke him for the conclusions later.

[RapidFire7]

I'm surprised at the Shadow Hawks... everything else is fairly good

[JackAttack5]

I'll pick out what I think are the most glaring anomalies.

Why are the Firestarters tier three while the Jenner F is tier one? All the Firestarters run the same 6ML build the Jenner is known for but they do it with much better hitboxes (no gigantic CT), horizontal arm aiming and a less blinding cockpit (assuming you're someone who uses a higher fov than the default 60 i.e everyone). The tier four/five situation is a little off too. The Spider 5K, Raven 2X, Commando 1D and 3A may be considered chores to grind for efficiencies by most but they are definitely not worse than Locusts.

Why are the Vindicators tier four? They're trash, objectively worse than the other mediums by every single measure. The Wolverine 6K is rightly put in tier five and even that's outright better than them. It is immeasurably worse than the 55 tonners it shares tier four with. Before someone says ''BUT I GET 1.1 K/D IN MY VINDICATOR AND DID 300 DAMAGE ONCE'' try to be objective. It's slow, big, fragile, criminally undergunned (they're low slung at that), has a blinding cockpit, poor hitboxes, and was released with no redeeming quirks. It's going to need HUGE bonuses from the upcoming quirks to be relevant because currently it's tier six.

Pizzadog is right about the Quickdraw 5K too, it's not at as competitive as Jagers. Not sure why the Flame is in tier three with them either.

Assault I can't see anything major with, except I'd place the Atlas K as tier 5. An extra AMS doesn't make a big difference when a clan LRM team can bring thousands of launchers and even their mechs that aren't boating LRMs outright can slap on LRM30 for no weight at all (see MadCats). Meanwhile it pays for that 2AMS by having less hardpoints than a light mech.

Edited by JackAttack5, 30 September 2014 - 02:31 PM.

[Pjwned]

o0Marduk0o, on 30 September 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

But at the same time a better to hit CT. The engine rating doesn't mean much when you can't fill all slots anyway and an 295 isn't much slower than a 300 rating engine.
I mean it is cool that some FS-9 are tier 3 which should be tier 2 but who knows.

A 300 rating engine means you can put 2 extra internal heatsinks in which means no real crit slot concerns and internal heatsinks are more efficient, but with a 295 engine cap you only get 1 extra internal heatsink slot.

[Kaptain]

Interesting I wonder how this table was created... Just a feeling or was data tracked?

All of the fire-starters are not considered Tier 1 or 2?
-All of the locust mechs are not Tier 5?
-The bulk of commandos are in the same tier as the locusts?
-The broken hit box spider is not Tier 1 or 2?
-The hunchy 4g is Tier 5? By far my favorite medium.
-Thunderbolts are tier 5?
-Stalkers > The Atlas D? By far my favorite Assault.
-How does a Highlander C > Highlander HM. The HM has 3 laser point in the left arm and more jump jets. And it has a higher engine rating...
-CTF IM and 3D are not the same tier?
-How is the 8R awesome 2 tiers above the 9M?

[Minoxen]

I would comment that the Commando 2D and Death Knell were included in Tier 3 with so many other JJ capable 30+ ton mechs. I believe they belong in Tier 4, not only because of limited tonnage and armor available, but because of all the benefits that simply being able to bring JJ's allows. Maneuvering, leg damage, speed loss on climbing, evading fire, all major advantages that no commando or locust posses.

For the Spider 5D and the Commando 2D to be in the same Tier I believe to be a mistake. Please drop the 2D and Death Knell to tier 4.

[Ultimax]

Adiuvo, on 30 September 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

I wouldn't call either the Ember or JR7-F tier one though

It looks like they're listed among the light class not across all mechs in the entire game, those two are solidly T1 Light mechs.

[Bilbo]

Pjwned, on 30 September 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

A 300 rating engine means you can put 2 extra internal heatsinks in which means no real crit slot concerns and internal heatsinks are more efficient, but with a 295 engine cap you only get 1 extra internal heatsink slot.

Only the first 10 unless you mean in terms of crit slots.

[Kaptain]

The 20 and 25 ton mechs need reduced heat-sink requirements, not quirks.

[TheFuzzyBunny]

Sadly the Highlanders are all to high. The agility nerf that hit them way back, combined with the JJ nerf, and the fact they still have to pay 2 tons each for lack luster JJs makes them pretty much pointless. 3 complete tops, more like 4 or 5. I'd currently rank them right with Awesome's, not counting the LRM Awesome, at the bottom of the assault food chain.

[Kaptain]

Are the negative quirks being remove for the highlander and awesome also?

You are removing the quirks for the Hunchy... Does that mean the RT is getting a better armor or internal structure buff or is that being scrapped completely?

TheFuzzyBunny, on 30 September 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

Sadly the Highlanders are all to high. The agility nerf that hit them way back, combined with the JJ nerf, and the fact they still have to pay 2 tons each for lack luster JJs makes them pretty much pointless. 3 complete tops, more like 4 or 5. I'd currently rank them right with Awesome's, not counting the LRM Awesome, at the bottom of the assault food chain.

Agreed all of my victors and highlanders are currently stripped for this reason

I wonder if the negative quirks on the highlander will also be removed along with the vic.

[BARBAR0SSA]

I'm happy my Wang should get a substantial buff

[warner2]

JackAttack5, on 30 September 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

Why are the Firestarters tier three while the Jenner F is tier one? All the Firestarters run the same 6ML build the Jenner is known for but they do it with much better hitboxes (no gigantic CT), horizontal arm aiming and a less blinding cockpit (assuming you're someone who uses a higher fov than the default 60 i.e everyone).

The Jenner F has high mounted weapons and can peek over hills very well. It's generally considered the better laser boat then the Firestarter because of that. If anything I think the Spider D should join the 3L in tier 2 as a useful-but-not-quite-one-of-the-best light 'mechs.

Not sure why the Jenner D is at tier 2, really.