348 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Roadbeer, on 06 October 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

I would be ok with a movement based CoF. If you're traveling at over say 20-30 Kph.

Even the most advanced tanks of our day can hit a target traveling at 60Kph, but you'd be hard pressed to find a gunner that said "I put a shell right down the enemies barrel", without a follow up of "and it was a damn lucky shot"

I'd say % based, to not hurt light mechs as much.


I still prefer the Targeting Computer Overload.

[Roadbeer]

Mcgral18, on 06 October 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

I'd say % based, to not hurt light mechs as much.


I still prefer the Targeting Computer Overload.

% of max speed?
% of ?

I see where you're going, just curious about what would trigger the targeting computers to start to loose effectiveness.

[Fut]

1453 R, on 03 October 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

Assume for the moment that you guys all get what you want. Convergence is eliminated entirely, and any time anyone fires more than one weapon at a time their 'Mech has a gigantic mechanical seizure, spraying weapons fire in all directions in a full 360-degree sphere before punching itself in the head hitbox and auto-ejecting the pilot on top of a box of fireworks. There's not even any point to carrying more than one weapon on a 'Mech anymore because discharging more than one in a ten-second period causes the machine to break into a fit of the Riverdance while also doing Yosemite Sam's pistol-jetpack thing while hidden warhorns in its knees belt out the Russian national anthem.

Every point you attempt to make is lost in a blur of overly zealous hyperbole...
You're "debating" against a point that was never brought up, by anybody, anywhere. Take a few minutes to relax, breathe deeply, and put on your big boy pants, then come back to the conversation like an adult.

Nobody is suggesting anything even remotely close to your concern. The suggestion for a COF simply has it so that you can't Alphastrike all of your weapons onto the exact same pixel on your target...

[Mcgral18]

Roadbeer, on 06 October 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

% of max speed?
% of ?

I see where you're going, just curious about what would trigger the targeting computers to start to loose effectiveness.

% of max speed. 50 for a light is 33%, while 50 for a WubShee is still 80%.


Well, ghost heat gives us some examples, along with things that don't work.

Perhaps assign each weapon a value and whenever that total value reaches whatever point, it stops working for x seconds (5?) and goes parallel. Spread weapons have a smaller value, and perhaps Pulse Lasers as well?

[Roadbeer]

Mcgral18, on 06 October 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

% of max speed. 50 for a light is 33%, while 50 for a WubShee is still 80%.


Well, ghost heat gives us some examples, along with things that don't work.

Perhaps assign each weapon a value and whenever that total value reaches whatever point, it stops working for x seconds (5?) and goes parallel. Spread weapons have a smaller value, and perhaps Pulse Lasers as well?

I like it, a lot, but is this the "stock" max speed, or after Frankenmeching?

[Mcgral18]

Roadbeer, on 06 October 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

I like it, a lot, but is this the "stock" max speed, or after Frankenmeching?

I honestly have mixed feelings on a CoF while moving, but I'll entertain ideas.

I would say Frankenmeching, although I guess you could stipulate if you move above your max stock speed you incur a penalty? Of course, Clams aren't affected by that one.

% of max speed is simple and easy to understand.

[Almond Brown]

LordKnightFandragon, on 06 October 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

And not set the heat scale so damn high.......and make shutting your mech down a bit more detrimental...as in make it take longer to restart...

And there goes any hope of keeping brawling a useful tool in MWO. No thanks.

[KraftySOT]

I dont care if you do cone of fire, or just remove convergence.

The only reason theres "no concensus" on this issue, is because we all have different solutions. But almost everyone can agree theres a problem. The 6-8 posters here who see no problem, represent an extremely small portion of the player base. Though to be fair, the 30-40 people posting about it being a problem are also a very small portion of the player base.

But dont let anyone tell you that people cant even agree theres a problem. In this cross section of the total player base, a vast majority consider it to be one of the central issues of not just MWO, but the entire PC adaptation franchise.

Almond Brown, on 06 October 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

And there goes any hope of keeping brawling a useful tool in MWO. No thanks.

Psst, heat neutral mechs can brawl forever. A 30 heat scale will also means if you have 30 dissipation, you can fire 30 heat worth of weapons for no heat build up. It doesnt effect brawlers at all...it effects huge alpha strikes that are high above the heat capacity.

Edited by KraftySOT, 06 October 2014 - 10:36 AM.

[Alek Ituin]

Roadbeer, on 06 October 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

I would be ok with a movement based CoF. If you're traveling at over say 20-30 Kph. Obviously I'd prefer to have convergence modified by movement, but to do that, we need to bring convergence. If it's a matter of low hanging fruit, then movement CoF gets the nod.

Even the most advanced tanks of our day can hit a target traveling at 60Kph, but you'd be hard pressed to find a gunner that said "I put a shell right down the enemies barrel", without a follow up of "and it was a damn lucky shot"

*sigh*

I suppose you're right. But please, please please please, for the love of all things... make CoF spread based on maximum speed. Give Lights a quirk that drastically lowers CoF movement penalties. If movement based CoF is implemented without those two things, Lights and Mediums would become even more unused than they already are.

Still going to push for convergence with 30 heat cap (and true doubles) until they do something. Heat penalties are going to be in at some point, that's basically confirmed, so there's at least something sensible being put in.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 06 October 2014 - 10:46 AM.

[Fut]

Almond Brown, on 06 October 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

And there goes any hope of keeping brawling a useful tool in MWO. No thanks.

Try brawling without just spamming your ALPHA-STRIKE button constantly... ?

[Almond Brown]

Roadbeer, on 06 October 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Um, it's a mech being piloted by a human, not a robot. It is prone to human error despite all the fancy targeting computers you bring into play.

So, you don't understand the core fundamentals of the fiction behind the game you're playing. I'm glad you have voiced your opinion on the forum.

Even if they could provide a convergence mechanism, where by your weapons all take time to align to the reticule, then the question becomes how long would that take before the fun of RUN and GUN was long gone.

You will not be able to RUN and GUN if your weapons take more than 2-3 seconds to align to a reticule that is tracking a "moving" target. It would be brutal even if you were standing still and only the enemy was moving, or vice versa, let alone both targets moving over uneven ground.

So how long to converge as many as 7 weapons and still be able to move the frack around at least a little?

Edited by Almond Brown, 06 October 2014 - 10:38 AM.

[KraftySOT]

But yeah...

At this point I dont care what you do about it, so long as you do something about it. Watching Noobvas blow themselves up, and Direwhales put 80 points of damage into a pixel every 5 seconds is getting really old...

Ive been doing this "Im just gonna horde cbills until CW" thing (hey im nearing my 1%! wonder if any other free loaders are near or have t yet?) and just using my Wubshee...and frankly its getting old killing half the mechs in the game in one shot. Its not even some super awesome meta build...its just an ac20 and pulse lasers.

Vaporizing every Quickdraw, Cataphract, Centurian, Hunchback, and Shadowhawk within 350ms instantly is .. well... boring...and im sure really annoying to the pilots of those mechs.

[3rdworld]

KraftySOT, on 06 October 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

But yeah...

At this point I dont care what you do about it, so long as you do something about it. Watching Noobvas blow themselves up, and Direwhales put 80 points of damage into a pixel every 5 seconds is getting really old...

Ive been doing this "Im just gonna horde cbills until CW" thing (hey im nearing my 1%! wonder if any other free loaders are near or have t yet?) and just using my Wubshee...and frankly its getting old killing half the mechs in the game in one shot. Its not even some super awesome meta build...its just an ac20 and pulse lasers.

Vaporizing every Quickdraw, Cataphract, Centurian, Hunchback, and Shadowhawk within 350ms instantly is .. well... boring...and im sure really annoying to the pilots of those mechs.

I will play you 1v1 in a treb. We can see how well you can 1 shot me.

[Almond Brown]

KraftySOT, on 06 October 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

I dont care if you do cone of fire, or just remove convergence.

The only reason theres "no concensus" on this issue, is because we all have different solutions. But almost everyone can agree theres a problem. The 6-8 posters here who see no problem, represent an extremely small portion of the player base. Though to be fair, the 30-40 people posting about it being a problem are also a very small portion of the player base.

But dont let anyone tell you that people cant even agree theres a problem. In this cross section of the total player base, a vast majority consider it to be one of the central issues of not just MWO, but the entire PC adaptation franchise.

Psst, heat neutral mechs can brawl forever. A 30 heat scale will also means if you have 30 dissipation, you can fire 30 heat worth of weapons for no heat build up. It doesnt effect brawlers at all...it effects huge alpha strikes that are high above the heat capacity.

Heat neutral is doable now, but so many would rather mash and crash for that extra Alpha. A new ceiling changes nothing unless you allow a Mech to self explode when Alpha'd the first time. Lots of folks would just love that for sure.

Psst, a new ceiling of 30 (plus any HS added) would just "force" waste of weapon space if you disallow accommodating for any fully loaded build. boooo

[KraftySOT]

Almond Brown, on 06 October 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Even if they could provide a convergence mechanism, where by your weapons all take time to align to the reticule, then the question becomes how long would that take before the fun of RUN and GUN was long gone.

You will not be able to RUN and GUN if your weapons take more than 2-3 seconds to align to a reticule that is tracking a "moving" target. It would be brutal even if you were standing still and only the enemy was moving, or vice versa, let alone both targets moving over uneven ground.

So how long to converge as many as 7 weapons and still be able to move the frack around at least a little?

Though to be fair...run and gun is only for lights...

LRMs enforce Sitzkrieg. Theres no running and gunning until the near end of the map. And everyone has this idea that a CoF would be dramatic.

A few meters at 1000km will still have you hitting what youre aiming at (a mech is meters wide) but it just doesnt all hit the same damned pixel.

Heck half the time it probably still hits the same location anyways, but at least it gives people a chance. That guy in the centurion who foolishly crests the hill infront of a Jagermech doesnt just instantly die, every, single, time.

3rdworld, on 06 October 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

I will play you 1v1 in a treb. We can see how well you can 1 shot me.

Itd have to be a full match. Theres no way im putting a short range mech against an LRM boat 1 on 1. Thats neither scientific, nor smart.

But give me some teammates to use...ill kill yah. Instantly.

Edited by KraftySOT, 06 October 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[KuroNyra]

3rdworld, on 06 October 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

No point in replying with you. Your arguments are completely dishonest. Mechs don't hit the same pixel unless you aren't moving. Ballistics have bullet drop and travel time which require the pilot to adjust for those factors when shooting. Lasers, missiles, lbx, clan uacs all spread damage naturally.

If you think mechs hit X spot every time you are either standing still or you are just making a disingenuous argument to suit your point.

And comparing what a human is capable to a robot with a nuclear reactor built in the year 3000 in a make believe universe. Great point there. That is sarcasm.

No point for you to come here if you can't even understand what we are talking about.

"Mechs don't hit the same pixel"
Noooooo suuurrrr. Of course they never exactly hit where you are aiming. What is the purpose of your dot anyway!

[Almond Brown]

Fut, on 06 October 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Try brawling without just spamming your ALPHA-STRIKE button constantly... ?

Tell that to those who would then sit back and Alpha/Cool from 900m. Just like it was before. We just got most of them out from behind their rock ffs.

And a new JJ tweaks is inbound remember.

[3rdworld]

KraftySOT, on 06 October 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Itd have to be a full match. Theres no way im putting a short range mech against an LRM boat 1 on 1. Thats neither scientific, nor smart.

But give me some teammates to use...ill kill yah. Instantly.

who said anything about lrms? I will use a brawl treb.

[Alek Ituin]

Almond Brown, on 06 October 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Even if they could provide a convergence mechanism, where by your weapons all take time to align to the reticule, then the question becomes how long would that take before the fun of RUN and GUN was long gone.

You will not be able to RUN and GUN if your weapons take more than 2-3 seconds to align to a reticule that is tracking a "moving" target. It would be brutal even if you were standing still and only the enemy was moving, or vice versa, let alone both targets moving over uneven ground.

So how long to converge as many as 7 weapons and still be able to move the frack around at least a little?

Quirks.

Give Lights a Quirk that drastically boosts convergence time. Plus, they have tiny arms with tiny weapons, they could naturally have a faster convergence time.


Quirks really could solve at least 75% of the issues this game has, it's a fantastic concept.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 06 October 2014 - 10:51 AM.

[KraftySOT]

3rdworld, on 06 October 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

who said anything about lrms? I will use a brawl treb.

rofl, buy me some premium time and its your funeral. Why on earth would you take a brawling treb against a Wubshee?