132 replies to this topic

[Mad Strike]

kingalbertII, on 11 October 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

i would like a warning to be added in case you are narced.

I think 100 LRMs on air going straight to you counts as a NARC warning XD

[Sarlic]

As a Assault with 50 km/h its piss hard sometimes to get into cover fast. Nearly impossible before subtantional damage has been then done. Only thing is to stick close to cover, but as soon the team moves forward and you get tagged you can't run back that easily.

But LRM is part of the game, but i hate NARC/Tag. I feel it's imbalance.

Edited by Sarlic, 12 October 2014 - 12:16 AM.

[Zolaz]

Kotev, on 04 October 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Its ridiculous, you get Narced and everyone on the map within 1000m fire missles at you. Standing behind coverage doesn`t work becouse of the stupid LRM arc. Its literaly death sentence. Needs to be corected becouse it`s game breaker. There is no protection. I have tried powering down mech, doesn`t work either.

Something is ridiculous and it isnt LRMs.

[Yanlowen Cage]

well clan lrms that do NOT have art IV tend to come straight down on the target. I noticed this when I was trying out a summoner build with missiles in the testing grounds. Strangely enuff, when you put art IV on a clan missile rack it tends to speed up the missiles but flattens out the trajectory. toward the end of thier flight they tend to pop up a little before impact when art IV equipped. go into testing ground get a target and fire some non art missiles and watch the arty type fun.

Edited by Yanlowen Cage, 12 October 2014 - 02:14 AM.

[Cygone]

I'm sorry but WHAT?

LRM OP? Na. And I don't ever use them.

NARC OP? Na. Just use cover, take AMS.

You don't face LRMs in the higher ELO brackets because they are a bad weapon, so many of the better players don't take AMS, which is why many of the lower ELO players don't take it (they copy the builds of the higher ELO players) and then the winge about things like NARC / Tag / LRMs.

You can't blame NARC or LRMs on your poor ELO score.

[Wolfways]

Vandul, on 11 October 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

Actually, 1100m when using the LRM range extender. Just sayin...

There's a range extender module for LRM's?
lol i guess Radar Derp isn't the most useless thing in the game

[Kalimaster]

If you are caught in the open without support, your dead. Simple. I don't care if it is an LRM that is coming down at you or a PPC. You are exposed and someone is going to nail you. That red beam tells you that you are a target. Get behind cover and break the beam, before someone shoots at you. The same thing happens in real life. A soilder puts a laser on a tank and here comes the missile.

Consider this. Treat this game as a learning experiance before you get drafted in a real war, get stuck in an APC. Are you going to sit there and let someone make a target out of you, or are you going to move that postier that has been gaining girth to match the cushion contours of the couch.

[That Dawg]

I've asked for a warning in the HUD since they came out with narc. Would be nice if bitchin'betty went off about "you've been narc'd! you've been narc'd" or play starsky and hutch theme song

[Rando Slim]

Yes I can agree with both sides, look there are ways to avoid LRMs, I have started several threads like this, since then I have taken some of the advice of various posters and tried to adapt, it is possible, not foolproff or failsafe, but you can reduce your frustration. I completely agree though that you need a warning in your cockpit somewhere or from Bitchin Betty that you got narced as you cant rely on pugglefish at all. I also think the narc needs the possibility of being physically shot off of your mech, like how you can take down a UAV. I also agree that a fair number of the maps really don't have adequate cover. That being said, I mean, getting fired at for 15 seconds by anything will cost you at least 20 percent of your armor and probably more like 30 percent, granted that's direct fire stuff and you can fire back and dish out at least part of what you are getting. But yea I mean LRMS need to have a little bite, they need to be able to not be totally useless.

[Moonlander]

I'm not going to bother reading every reply to this thread, I'm just going to reply to the OP (even after I know this has been said).

NARC isn't a cheat. NARC isn't a "game breaker"

I've been NARC'd plenty on some of the slowest moving mechs in the game and I have since learned how to deal with it. Remember, when finding cover from LRMs, from what I understand and I could be incorrect, the structure you're hiding behind must be twice the height of your mech. That's how it was explained to me and it has helped me quite a bit. So, for instance... in Crimson Strait, there are some short and tall buildings. You should pick the highest structure, that is at least as double your height (view it like stacking your mech on top of itself). On maps like Frozen City, it can be tricky because with the terrain and a lot of the buildings have the snow drift around, it's not so easy to find cover. Some maps don't allow anything like this. I know when I've seen fellow assaults getting hammered I have tried to help pad the damage by running along the side they're getting hit from. At least some of the damage hit me instead. You just really have to think quick and do your best. It's only 30sec.

Imagine what those LRM boats feel like when the entire enemy team has ECM or when they can stay undercover for the majority of a match? There are pros and cons to everything. NARC is just a tool for the battlefield and has it's necessities.

Edited by Moonlander, 12 October 2014 - 10:43 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Narc isn't all that dangerous as most matches its poorly deployed. Good narc pilot times his hits and placement in regard to his missile boats. Its rare in solo to find such pilots.

[Madcap72]

Once again it's all skill and teamwork. There's cover from missles in EVERY map if you know the maps, even caustic vally.

[Tesunie]

Madcap72, on 15 October 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

Once again it's all skill and teamwork. There's cover from missles in EVERY map if you know the maps, even caustic vally.

And there is also teamwork that can diminish/counter the entire NARC/LRM threat. Kill the NARCer is step one. Step two is if the whole team had AMS and/or a couple of ECM units and all stay close to one another. (Along with cover and etc.)

[Bigbacon]

Problem with narc is that no one:

1. No one moves around the map
2. No one plays lights
3. No one prioritizes targets

If people would move, lights could go after the narc lights and or narc them themselves.

if you keep getting narc'd then
1. get with ECM if you can
2. ECM mechs should use the ECM for more then themselves and help out those who are narc'd etc.

Most of the problems in this game are caused by the players themselves and not game balance.

Fix: stop standing around and stop being an army of one.

[Tuefel Hunden]

If the mechs that could take AMS did take AMS....

LRMs would be totally useless. So, keep building your mechs to max your Alpha and neglect that AMS.


Seriously, though....

NARC warning from Betty would be nice. It is bad enough that these futuristic robots have such a narrow field of view. Apparently sensors can only see what your eyeballs can see. Me, I would put sensors covering my 6.

[Mercules]

Bigbacon, on 06 October 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

i am always for LRMs getting two changes and this is from someone who does use them to boat at times. Obviously, they need to get away from the TT ruleset

1. Increasae the minimum range for both IS and Clan Make it like 250m to 300m
2. Remove the Clan minimum damage junk.
3. Maybe slow them down.

i think just increasing the minimum range would do wonders.

Actually... LRMs not using TT rules is part of the issue. In TT LRMs don't "Lock-On" so to speak. In direct LoS they would fire off like SRMs and smash into the enemy. With a spotter they can indirect fire and will arc up and come down on the target but they will spread out more.

Needing to wait for lock tone and traveling so slow is a bad thing. ECM blocking them is a bad thing. Them tracking the way they do is a bad thing. They should be speedy but not track as well as they do.
ECM is powerful because of how PGI did LRMs. NARC is powerful because of ECM and how PGI did LRMs.

-------------------------------------

This aside, NARC is heavy, the shot is slow and hard to aim, the ammo is limited, and it requires a second party to have LRMs. To even get NARC'd you either have to have a very good pilot doing the NARCing on the opposite team, or have been standing still with an opposing mech less than 450m from you giving him a good shot. Don't give opposing mechs a good shot at you. If that was an AC/20 you would be hurting just as bad.

[Vandul]

Wolfways, on 12 October 2014 - 02:22 AM, said:

There's a range extender module for LRM's?
lol i guess Radar Derp isn't the most useless thing in the game

Its funny to watch counter battery fire explode 85 meters away from you.

[Laokin]

AzarathRaven, on 04 October 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

I agree with both sides here. NARC can be annoying when all of a sudden you get missile lock warnings for a minute straight. However, ECM is not the counter to NARC if you have ECM (like me) and are NARCed. I get NARCed in my DDC and it is ridiculous. ECM is supposed to block that. TAG already pierces ECM, and that is a laser with no heat and no ammo and weights less than NARC. Why is NARC beating ECM? That just seems a bit too much.

Honestly -- my honest answer to you;

I've been playing MWO since closed beta, and still have NEVER ONCE been hit with a Narc. It's never happened. I've never had some kind of persistent missile lock warning, no.

Tag is infinitely better especially since it enhances the Direct fire abilities of lrms. I don't even know what Narc looks like, because I've literally never seen it in what is it, close to 3 years now? I play almost every day too.

I used to play nothing but Catapults, then Hunchies, then Spiders -- I've played everything a bunch with the exception of assault classes.

Now I play with Kitfox. Never been narced. Not once.

In case you're wondering how that answers why it penetrates ECM, it's because if it didn't, it'd be more useless than it already is, and it's pretty useless. Having forward scouts with tags is better, quicker, and allows hit confirming so you aren't wasting your tubes.

I don't really think Narc fits in the game IMO. It's still a pretty useless system.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Precocious Rayne, on 04 October 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

I'm guessing you're new? I'm not trying to be nasty or anything, but yeah, if you get NARCed, that's gonna happen, it broadcasts a signal to everyone, and anyone with missiles will fire. You CAN duck behind stuff, but you need to run and find the best obstacles you can. Also, your lance and/or team needs to let you know you've been NARCed, in case you don't, and try to help cover you. I had it happen to me a few days ago. NARC was buffed sometime back because it wasn't doing a whole lot of good, it's very useful now, but also very situational.

IIRC, NARC was changed to pierce ECM, but it may only do that on an ECM-equipped 'Mech, not sure.

Not very useful? How not very useful was it? Now its an endless beacon of doom....its basically an IWIN button for all LRM users.....What was buffed on it?

[Almond Brown]

Tesunie, on 08 October 2014 - 06:52 PM, said:

I'd like to mention, I was using the Thor Prime in matches earlier today, and my CLRM15 actually got eaten up completely (rendering an entire weapon system useless) by a single AMS system (that I could see). I repeatedly shot my LRM15 off and did no damage to my target.

Now, in reverse, if that was an Gauss, PPC or LL, it would have hit and dealt damage.

As far as AMS goes, and all the other counters for LRMs in the game, most times unless you boat (and this is kinda what is causing the boating problems), it's a gamble if your LRM system (which counter to common belief, does require some degree of skill to use well) is even going to be worth it's tonnage. I often time have had half my Stalker build (x2 LRM15s) being useless because of ECM or just two AMS systems (It's happened to me before). That's the tonnage for the LRM15s, Artemis, and 7 additional tons (honestly, I probably don't need that much LRM ammo) that is rendered useless by 1.5 - 3 tons of equipment.

I'm not saying AMS is bad. I'm not even saying ECM is bad. I'm just saying it's encouraging more boating, as you can't get away with placing just one LRM10 system on your mech and get it's tonnage worth of damage (most times). Thus, people take "MORE" LRM launchers, as many as they can squeeze in. This then exasperates the issue of NARC when it does come up, as then those LRM boats, if they are there, rain death on anyone who isn't prepared for it.

Essentially, just like with any weapon system in this game really, any weapon that is boated starts to become a problem.

LRMs are hard for people to understand out of all the weapons, in part due to their utility and multiple ways of use. Indirect fire is just one of their uses (the root of many complaints I think). (If you really want to know my opinions on LRMs, how to use them, etc, check out my guides on them. One guide is linked in my signature, and the rest should be linked from that thread there.)

Sounds like your Stalker and or Thor could have used a TAG laser.