129 replies to this topic

[A Man In A Can]

Dawnstealer, on 08 October 2014 - 08:08 PM, said:

The "negative weight" thing isn't correct - you still have to make up for it with the heat sinks. So yes, the "engine" is negative,

That's what is meant by the engine having a negative weight. The first time new players attempt to mount an SD 60 on a mech, they would look at their tonnage and say *Why am I gaining tonnage when I put in this engine?" and something similar to that effect when they see the engine stats and see a negative number. Because it has to be to account for the tonnage it was originally given, and the necessary "engine" heatsinks under the current system.

So frankly it was just better to make the minimum cutoff at 100 rated engines. That way, without an inventory queue system, players can manually add the difference in heatsinks to make a legally constructed mech. But naturally it would mean that the famous underdog mech would have a hard time being included without something needing to be changed.

And that's why having reduced stock armor levels is a good solution with that mech. It keeps the current system intact, with minimal impact to the stock loadouts. And as with any stock mech, players are free to adjust components and armor as they wish. It just makes the Urbie the one and likely only exception to the "stock mechs have 2x armor levels in MWO" PGI rule.

Edited by Mechwarrior Mousse, 08 October 2014 - 08:37 PM.

[Ertur]

How can anyone WANT the Urbie?
Yeah, its cute. It's also completely useless.

Dire Wolves outrun Urbies.

Run that through your heads for a while.

Dire Wolves outrun Urbies.

It'd be like dropping into a match with a water pistol and a wooden sword.

[Alistair Winter]

Ertur, on 08 October 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

How can anyone WANT the Urbie?
Yeah, its cute. It's also completely useless.
Dire Wolves outrun Urbies.
Run that through your heads for a while.
Dire Wolves outrun Urbies.
It'd be like dropping into a match with a water pistol and a wooden sword.

Because Russ said he was open to making the Urbie work in MWO. He mentioned upping the engine cap to make it move 80-90 kph, so it could keep up with other mechs and act as fire support with something like an AC10 + ER LL.

There's plenty of stuff PGI could do with the core stats (imagine 180 degree torso twist) and quirks (9000% extra small laser damage).

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

Because Russ said he was open to making the Urbie work in MWO. He mentioned upping the engine cap to make it move 80-90 kph, so it could keep up with other mechs and act as fire support with something like an AC10 + ER LL.

There's plenty of stuff PGI could do with the core stats (imagine 180 degree torso twist) and quirks (9000% extra small laser damage).

Speaking of Urbie viability, I think a few things need to happen for that to occur:

1. Engine cap no less than 150. 180 would be a recommended number (same as Kit Fox).

2. If at all possible, please for the love of Kerensky, God, Cthulu, and all other things holy, make the first 10 required DHS be located inside of the engine for engines smaller than 250 rating! Engine weights would be increased accordingly to represent this, so in the end you'd just save critical slots. This would help the Urbie, Locust, Commando, slower BJ and Vindi variants, and perhaps even a few weird Spider builds. The ability to do this already even exists in the engine code, and can be done by editing just 2 values on each individual engine (number of sinks and the tonnage). I'll even volunteer to do it myself and submit the modified Engines.XML to PGI.

3. Quirk the living $#!% out of it.

4. Bare minimum of 6 hardpoints per variant. Up to 8 would be recommended, to truly designate its role as a slower but more powerful IS light.

5. Add even more quirks for good measure.


EDIT1:
Possible hardpoint breakdowns (fantasy land):

UM-R60
Left arm: 3-4E
Right arm: 3-4B

UM-R60L
Left arm: 2E
Right arm: 4-6B

UM-R63
Left arm: 4-6E
Right arm: 2B


EDIT2:
I just finished working on a copy of the Engines.XML file, converting all Inner Sphere STD and XL engines rated under 250 to have all 10 base sinks in the engine rather than outside, with tonnage increased accordingly. I have it sitting on my desktop right now. Tommorrow I think I'll even add in engines rated from 5 to 95, to make the stock Urbie possible. Note that I excluded Clan engines because they have fixed slots, and their smaller equipment means their lights never run out of space anyways.

If any PGI officials would miraculously want this modified XML file for MWO use, I can attach it to an email...

Edited by FupDup, 08 October 2014 - 10:09 PM.

[Greenjulius]

You're all going to be surprised when we get the urbie. And you DireWhales will cower in terror at the overwhelming firepower of R2D2warrior!

I am actually pretty sure it will be the urbie. That last town hall conversation convinced me.

[xengk]

Ertur, on 08 October 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

It'd be like dropping into a match with a water pistol and a wooden sword.

Dawwww


Does this mean melee is confirmed?

[MeiSooHaityu]

Urbanmech FTW. Just quirk that thing like crazy so it is useful LOL.

Either that, or a light with 6 or 8 ballistic hardpoints. We need MG apocolypse!

[Dawnstealer]

Mechwarrior Mousse, on 08 October 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

That's what is meant by the engine having a negative weight. The first time new players attempt to mount an SD 60 on a mech, they would look at their tonnage and say *Why am I gaining tonnage when I put in this engine?" and ...[snip - YOU know what you said]

Right, and they'd drop in that 60 STD or XL (oooohhhhhh!) and say "Why am I gaining tonnage?" And then they'd see they'd have to add...what? Seven? Eight? NINE?? heat sinks and say "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh...."

Ertur, on 08 October 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

How can anyone WANT the Urbie?
Yeah, its cute. It's also completely useless.

Dire Wolves outrun Urbies.

Run that through your heads for a while.

Dire Wolves outrun Urbies.

It'd be like dropping into a match with a water pistol and a wooden sword.

Let me give you the "Urbie running a Gauss Rifle." Something the size of a Commando, setting up as a hill humper, peaking over the edge, plopping out Gauss shots and no one can hit it because it's too far away and too small to be easily spotted. Add to this the fact that it would be in amongst the tree-like assaults and heavies, and I think the Urbie will do just fine.

It won't suffer from "whups - I got WAY out in front of my team"-ism that other Lights suffer from.

[Lily from animove]

Fierostetz, on 08 October 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

i want a pop-out automated hair comber

would use that on my direwolf to plant crops ontop of it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

Russ Bullock described the next choice of Inner Sphere light mech to be released as a "home run", and warned that no vote on the forum would be necessary. Clearly, he's pleased with his choice.

So what light mech could be described as a "home run", i.e. a perfect choice for what the game and the players need?

EDIT: I would appreciate it if this didn't turn into another Urbanmech joke thread. There's plenty of those already. And yeah, Urbanmechs are hilarious.

Urbanmech is never a Joke. UrbanNation is quite serious. Your lack of faith....is disturbing.

That said, in timeline? The obvious "homerun" choice is the Wolfhound. 3 variants extant in timeline (1, 1a, 1b) and hardpoint inflation takes care of the homogenous nature of the hardpoints.

Also, because the playerbase has been vociferous in begging for it...despite it likely proving inferior to the Firestarter in every conceivable way, thanks to MWO's mechlab.



I'd prefer the Javelin or Hussar, myself, as they both have far more potential, but "homerun" usually means listening to the community (which usually comes back to haunt PGI)

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 08 October 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

I don't think the Hussar would be a home run, given that it only has weapons in its CT. That limits it to just 2 energy hardpoints in the CT, just like the Spider 5V. We all know how that ended up...

HSR-350-D adds medium lasers to each arm
HSR-400-D adds an LB-10x (though it is early in timeline, though that didn't stop the TW-S from being added)
hardpoint inflation can help. As could ECM.

FupDup, on 08 October 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

The Javelin would just be a gimped Oxide with 5 fewer tons to spend on weaponry.

and JJs.
And lasers in one version.


And arm actuators.

maybe not so gimped

[JackPoint]

It'll bee a crappy support mech nobody will pilot after a week of wtf woes, and you'll send it to the Summoner lounge to keep him company.

[Soul Tribunal]

Ertur, on 08 October 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

How can anyone WANT the Urbie?
Yeah, its cute. It's also completely useless.

Dire Wolves outrun Urbies.

Run that through your heads for a while.

Dire Wolves outrun Urbies.

It'd be like dropping into a match with a water pistol and a wooden sword.

And as it stands, there are many thousands of us who would drop into a match with one.
It doesn't always have to make sense.

-ST

[Bishop Steiner]

ChapeL, on 08 October 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

How about the Firefly ?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Firefly

essentially extinct outside the dragoons. Hardly a "no brainer", either. Do we need weaker versions of the Raven-4x/2x running around?

[Bishop Steiner]

AgroAntirrhopus, on 08 October 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

As much as I really really really want it to be the Urbanmech (and lets face it, by a large margin I think it would be the defacto 'homerun' choice), Russ' reaction to the Urbanmech question later on makes me think it's probably not it.

My money reluctantly goes on Wolfhound or Panther.

64 kph Light. With 2 less jjs than the Firestarter, same armor ppotential and inferior hardpoints (even with inflation, any missiles are CT). Would Translate absolutely horrible into the game (heck the 97 kph Clan Lights were "DoA", remember?).

Of course, fanboyism, and the generally inferior gameplay nature, would make it the obvious candidate. It or the nearly as bad Wolfhound.

Deathlike, on 08 October 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

Wolfhound's release date is 3052 according to sarna (at least for the primary variant). It's unlikely to be selected.

No. WLF-2 version, which is the banner version, is 3052. there were 3 variants available as of 3028.

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

Well, more specifically, since the Ember. Which, as far as I know, is just a hero mech PGI invented. So it's perfectly possible that they make a fairly mediocre Panther and then introduce a Panther hero mech with 4 energy hardpoints, 4 ballistic hardpoints and 64 missile hardpoints. Hard to say what the next P2W king will be, after the Ember and Dragonslayer.


Good point, but it was used in battle before 3052. Seems like a lot of mechs were ready for manufacture in 3052. Is that a TT thing?

No. It's that many of the "featured" versions of classic mechs shown on Sarna are ones taken from the 3050 TRO, not their original 2750/3025/3039 versions. Most of those are factory upgrades or field kits, that started arriving around 3052.

aniviron, on 08 October 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

I'd go for the Javelin or Panther. The Panther is definitely the more interesting choice, but both are going to be relatively slow and therefore not that popular.

Shame it's not 3051, or we could get the Piranha, which has 12 MGs, 2 ML, and goes 150kph stock.

Piranha is a Clan Mech though. And doesn't have any variants til 3067.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 October 2014 - 05:32 AM.

[Lord de Seis]

The Urbanmech is not something to joke about.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Mousse, on 08 October 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

Stock Urbanmech R60

Engine: 60-rated Standard Engine
Standard Internals
11 Standard Heatsinks
96 points of TT Standard Armor
2 Jump Jets
1 AC10 with one ton of ammo
1 SL

Closest replica I could get in Smurfy would be this, which has 144 points of Standard Armor. 144 / 96 = 1.5 exactly

Normally most stock mechs have 2x TT armor points in MWO. But for the Urbie to be as close to the TRO as possible, the armor levels have to be different.

Which is more acceptable then getting rid of things old vets would pay attention to like getting rid of the 11th heat sink and or the second jump jet.

always ditched that 11th heatsink for an extra ton of ammo anyhow. Never made sense to have it. Unless they got inferno'd a lot?

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 October 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

Also, because the playerbase has been vociferous in begging for it...despite it likely proving inferior to the Firestarter in every conceivable way, thanks to MWO's mechlab.

Hefty armor quirks?

Comes stock with 2 extra tons, while being ground ridden.

[CDLord HHGD]

Deathlike, on 08 October 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

Wolfhound's release date is 3052 according to sarna (at least for the primary variant). It's unlikely to be selected.

It was fielded by Dan Allard in the 4th war. Granted that was a prototype, but that was 3030, it is now 3049, 19 years later.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

Hefty armor quirks?

Comes stock with 2 extra tons, while being ground ridden.

highly unlikely. Perhaps something like 10% damage reduction from PPCs and Missiles? Since it was designed specifically to fight Panthers? IS boost a bit, to represent it's toughness, like when Dan Allard was testing it and it soaked the PPC shot to the arm.