152 replies to this topic

[Captain Wolfsburg]

Yeah, I'm not sure what your complaint is either.

The game is FREE TO PLAY. There is no pre-order, only founders. If you don't think investing in founders is worth it based on the data presented so far, then don't get it. It's that simple. Wait until the game goes live, open a free account, and decide for yourself if the game is alright. Then if you want, shell out a few bucks for premium. Founders is just for us gung-ho fans who have money to blow and are super hopeful and excited about this game. I've got a ton of faith that this is going to be the best mechwarrior game yet. Sure, it may not be perfect, but it'll be as close to perfect as they've come.

As far as the NDA. They can keep that up as long as they need. I want all those pesky bugs squashed before Information from players starts pouring onto these forums.

[Saevus]

Are you for real? I wanted to see the "logic" and "data" you based your post on, but I couldn't find it. The founders pack was made availiable and clearly, enough people felt the information in the gameplay videos, dev blogs, interviews and E3 footage was more than adequate to make a choice. Which by the way is all you are being forced to make, a choice. No one is telling you that if you don't buy the founders pack, you will forever be in last place, scorned and ridiculed thoughout the community. You have to choose, is there enough information for you to decide whether you want to spend money on this game, at this time? If yes = go purchase a founders pack. If no = check back when open beta starts. Pretty simple. I agree with you faith has no place in making a product decision. Of course, this also isn't a life or death choice we are talking about, it's a hobby for us, a job for them. The only faith I have is in taxes and the fact the MWO team doesn't want to drop a **** on me. I've been involved in almost all of the games you mentioned and I'll admit, things like Champions Online hurt. (that was a really bad bait and switch, which occurred AFTER the open beta and headstart program, blatant rip off) but those things are the exception not the rule. As pointed out, Diablo 3 made Activision tons of money, despite the fact the dev team there runs it like it's WoW and not a single player game. Anarchy online? Did you ever play it? Had a TERRIBLE launch, and despite using older MMO ideals and technology, is actually a decent game with a dedicated niche community. All of that being said, since I got off track and started rambling about things in general (I could go on and on about how trashed online gaming has become), the MWO team is doing everything in a refreshingly open manner, with good customer relations, a steady if not overwhelming flow of information, and they have kept their NDA in place during the right phases of development and I believe they will open the game steadily in the proper manner. However, I doubt they will meet your expectations. Truth is, the game isn't ready to be shopped to folks like you. Us hardcore fans though put our money where our heart is, and maybe, even though we shouldn't, we'll have a little bit of faith.

[Adrienne Vorton]

Diomed, on 24 June 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

It is almost impossible to make this decision without data, and sadly, for this game there is too little meaningful data to base that decision on.

well. iguess the amount of founders alone proofs that sentence untrue...

[BFalcon]

Saevus, on 24 June 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

Are you for real? I wanted to see the "logic" and "data" you based your post on, but I couldn't find it. The founders pack was made availiable and clearly, enough people felt the information in the gameplay videos, dev blogs, interviews and E3 footage was more than adequate to make a choice. Which by the way is all you are being forced to make, a choice. No one is telling you that if you don't buy the founders pack, you will forever be in last place, scorned and ridiculed thoughout the community. You have to choose, is there enough information for you to decide whether you want to spend money on this game, at this time? If yes = go purchase a founders pack. If no = check back when open beta starts. Pretty simple. I agree with you faith has no place in making a product decision. Of course, this also isn't a life or death choice we are talking about, it's a hobby for us, a job for them. The only faith I have is in taxes and the fact the MWO team doesn't want to drop a **** on me. I've been involved in almost all of the games you mentioned and I'll admit, things like Champions Online hurt. (that was a really bad bait and switch, which occurred AFTER the open beta and headstart program, blatant rip off) but those things are the exception not the rule. As pointed out, Diablo 3 made Activision tons of money, despite the fact the dev team there runs it like it's WoW and not a single player game. Anarchy online? Did you ever play it? Had a TERRIBLE launch, and despite using older MMO ideals and technology, is actually a decent game with a dedicated niche community. All of that being said, since I got off track and started rambling about things in general (I could go on and on about how trashed online gaming has become), the MWO team is doing everything in a refreshingly open manner, with good customer relations, a steady if not overwhelming flow of information, and they have kept their NDA in place during the right phases of development and I believe they will open the game steadily in the proper manner. However, I doubt they will meet your expectations. Truth is, the game isn't ready to be shopped to folks like you. Us hardcore fans though put our money where our heart is, and maybe, even though we shouldn't, we'll have a little bit of faith.

Erm Saevus, any chance you could use new paragraphs once in a while - I had real trouble reading that post. Cheers.

And I agree - I had several people report back about some of the problems with Diablo 3.

[Calisrue]

NDAs exist for a reason - in a large part I think to save us the emotional rollercoaster of seeing all the mistakes/bugs that invariably occur and are fixed and ideas that don't work out. I can see alot of people having fits if there was something in current beta that didn't make it to open beta or release because it was unbalanced or just impacted the environment in a way the devs don't like

[Death Mallet]

Can you imagine how much drama there would be on the forums if everyone got all the info about all the tweaking and balancing going on. They'd never hear the end of it if somebody's favorite mech got tweaked a little in a way they didn't like.

Years later people would still be ******** about how they should go back to the "original" stats.

[Twisted Power]

Diomed, on 24 June 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

Does the sand keep your ears warm? It must be very comforting to let others do your thinking for you. I am glad you don't let facts, data, evidence and logic get in the way of your 'feeling' the game to be good. Close your eyes, click your heels together and wish it well...yeah that always works.

Until gamers start to think and make informed, discriminating choices our games will continue to be buggy, pay 2 win, rushed titles with no depth. Thanks.

I am not the Dev. I have no xp in making a game. So I am comforted to know that they know what they are doing.

I did make an informed choice when I purchased the founder tag, I didn't need as much info as you.

I will play this game, I love mechs, It can even kinda suck and I will STILL play this game, I love mechs.

It won't suck (at least for the launch) because the devs need this project to work. If you knew anything about the history of this company this game is their lichpin. It will determin many things about their future projects and investors. They have my support.

[mattkachu]

I wonder where the demands will stop. 50 million in unmarked c-bills and a flight to cuba?
Don't know what you're talking about diablo3, i think its a good game.

Bro, just wait like everyone else. Even Tanks had NDA and those playing WoP are still in it.
Problem is nobody wants to wait anymore. Everyone feels if they drop even a little bit of money they can start making demands.

If what you see isnt enough to preorder, then dont. Its not a science and dont try to make it a hard decision. Im sure they'll have premuim mechs down the road, so dont get wound up like a spring.

[Pook600]

Diomed, on 24 June 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Be faithful? Really?

I'm sorry but this position strikes me as extremely naive. With debacles like Anarchy Online, SWG, Battlecruiser, Diablo 3, Star Trek Online, Champions Online and a host of other failed or lacking titles how can you say this? We have examples ad nauseum of game devs lying to people to bump-up sales and then pulling the old 'bait and switch' once the game goes retail.

I have no use for faith. Faith is the acceptance of a fact or position in contravention of the evidence. I use data, logic and reason, not faith. In other words, I don't make crap up.

Then don't buy...

FFS, this game isn't just about you dude....

They make business decisions based on what is best for the game, not a couple people who scream"want this, change that or you wont get my money!"

Don't like it?
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Prematurely lifting an NDA is a poor decision to make for all the wrong reasons.

They lift NDA, then we have to deal with a million separate threads on "why did you guys change this" and the like. I'll pass. I will be buying a Founder package based on info already released. You make decisions based on available information and logical deductions.

You are asking for final details on an unreleased game. Doesn't make sense.

[Diomed]

RG Notch, on 24 June 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Yet your 20 years of experience hasn't taught you the value of an NDA I see. No offense, but if there isn't enough info for you to make a decision, then don't. Wait it out and see, but don't expect them to drop the NDA in order to possibly get your money now and get bad word of mouth off of an early beta build. My 20+ years has taught me that the NDA is important, look how much people speculate and doom say with nothing, give them a potentially buggy early beta test and well that's why you don't.

Where, in any post of mine, did I ever claim or say that an NDA has no value? I did no such thing.

NDA's are useful tools and they can do a lot of good. They can also do a lot of harm when used too long. What was a tool for protecting a developing game becomes a viel to hide flaws. Once a gaming company starts asking for money for their game its time for the NDA to come down.

Please post all these wonderful games that survived this supposed attack of 'doom and gloom'. I can recall SWG, Champions Online, Star Trek Online and Horizons as some games that shipped missing critical features that were promised and yet never had. I can recall promises made by those Devs that were outright lies. The facts are that gaming devs and gaming companies lie. That does not mean the MWo devs are lying, it just means there is historical facts to support the possibility that they might be.

[Mu]

Honestly I think they're just denying themselves free publicity. I hadn't been keeping up with this game until recently, but the first thing I did before getting caught up was look for videos of beta matches on youtube and was disappointed that there were none. Obviously, this was before I found out there was an NDA.

I can understand them wanting to control information on things that are subject to change, and there are developer posts citing stuff such as hardpoints/prices they can't reveal as they may not be final. But IGN's had screenshots of exactly that up for a while now so it seems silly to act secretive about it.

[Jonneh]

Diomed, on 24 June 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

There are many of us trying to decide if we should buy the game and if so which package should we preorder. It is almost impossible to make this decision without data, and sadly, for this game there is too little meaningful data to base that decision on.

Yes, we can watch videos and read transcripts of devs saying the same cliche's and catchphrases over and over. We can wade through these forums and read the wild speculation based on 'faith' and 'feelings' which are not even useless. What we need is frank, honest opinions of the game from people who have played it.

There is a major title in beta now that will release at roughly the same time as this game: Guild Wars 2. That game is probably farther from release than this one and yet they have lowered their NDA. And as a result I have preordered that game.

MWo Devs please lower the NDA. I want to preorder your game, I really do; but I have been burned so many times by game devs lies that I just can't do it. I need more data.

NDA's exist for a very good reason, and they are unlikely to release it while the game is unprepared for many eyes on it. Its contrary to your entire point really, since you'll see it and go "omg thats ****, not even finished!"...

well... yeah? So if you don't want to pre-order it already with the info you have, chances are you still wont want to after you see an unfinished closed beta either. So you either need a better imagination, some faith and a bit of less #care regarding your pre-order cash - or you'll simply miss out on the founder program.

I guess the choice is yours!

[Omicron Omega]

Don't fall victim to the trolling. Seriously

[Diomed]

Twisted Power, on 24 June 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

I am not the Dev. I have no xp in making a game. So I am comforted to know that they know what they are doing.

I did make an informed choice when I purchased the founder tag, I didn't need as much info as you.

I will play this game, I love mechs, It can even kinda suck and I will STILL play this game, I love mechs.

It won't suck (at least for the launch) because the devs need this project to work. If you knew anything about the history of this company this game is their lichpin. It will determin many things about their future projects and investors. They have my support.

Here's some history for ya, their list of games:

• Bass Pro Shops: The Strike (Xbox 360, Wii, Windows)
  
• Duke Nukem Forever (Windows, Xbox 360, PS3)
  
• MechWarrior Online (Windows)
  
• Die Hard: Nakatomi Plaza (Windows)
  
• EA Playground (Nintendo DS)
  
• Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 (PSP)
  
• Need For Speed: Undercover (PSP)
  
• Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Windows, Xbox 360, PS3)

That is not a distinguised list of hits. Duke is the posterchild for bad games.

Again I am not saying the game will fail, I hope its good. I am not saying the Devs are liars nor am I claiming they can't make a good game. What I am saying is that your arguement is fallacious. You are not using facts or logic, you are using wish-thinking to drive your decision making process, and that is a bad thing.

The main point is I think the NDA should drop. No one has made a good arguement to counter mine. I can only hope they devs are going to do the right thing soon and open their 'wonderful, amazing' game to examination.

Bootch, on 24 June 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

OP is a moron, thread is a sham, this isnt pre-order this is founders...get a grip.

/thread

You can't for a rational, cogent arguement so you resort to name calling eh? That is the old ad hominem fallacy, you loose.

[Damberville]

Seriously, like most of the other guys have said, the NDA is there for a reason. And all the reasons are perfectly sound and valid. Period.

Diomed. It seems like you are beating a dead horse over something you can't control. Like everyone has said, either get a founder's pack based on what you know now or don't. Wait, like everyone else. Just because some games crashed and burned or didn't deliver like they said they would doesn't mean every single game will.

There is no need to make a good argument to prove to you otherwise. They haven't decided to drop or lower the NDA. They have their reasons for doing what they are doing. If we want to spend our money on a Founder's package, they we will. Only people we can truly blame if the game falls flat or dives or doesn't start, is our own. We chose to put the money into it, no one forced us too or brainwashed us to do this.

Pure and simple, end of story... do or don't. Either spend the money or don't.

Edited by Damberville, 24 June 2012 - 11:02 AM.

[Omicron Omega]

Wow. I'm starting to think this guy is serious. Sorry. Let the silliness continue.

[Red Lord]

I think the founder's pack are on sale up to the official release date or at least to the early access one you can just wait for the open beta then make our choice, plus it should have most of the cliches worked out.

[Shiinore]

If they drop the NDA and people talk about beta, it's possible that people will come to conclusions too quickly about the product based on testimony. The game is still in development after all, and some people will get the wrong idea of MWO if they see it in an unfinished state. It's never that wise to release lots of info about your product before it's complete (or at least close).

E.G- a beta tester unrestricted by NDA complains that the game is very buggy and has framerate issues. Will this be reflective of the final product? Probably not. But it will convince people that MWO has issues. There's already people complaining about features they've only seen through videos as it is, and threads started by people who want to quit MWO because there's a Founder's Package.

[Calem]

Those bashing the OP should be ashamed. That guy is one of us, someone genuinely interested in the game and pondering to buy into it. He just didn't feel he had enough info to do so just yet. It's an entirely valid view that was presented in a calm and reasonable manner.

You disagree, fine, but there's no need to go all ballistic over it.

[RG Notch]

Diomed, on 24 June 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Where, in any post of mine, did I ever claim or say that an NDA has no value? I did no such thing.

NDA's are useful tools and they can do a lot of good. They can also do a lot of harm when used too long. What was a tool for protecting a developing game becomes a viel to hide flaws. Once a gaming company starts asking for money for their game its time for the NDA to come down.

Please post all these wonderful games that survived this supposed attack of 'doom and gloom'. I can recall SWG, Champions Online, Star Trek Online and Horizons as some games that shipped missing critical features that were promised and yet never had. I can recall promises made by those Devs that were outright lies. The facts are that gaming devs and gaming companies lie. That does not mean the MWo devs are lying, it just means there is historical facts to support the possibility that they might be.

Umm every game I've been in beta has doom sayers, shall I point out everyone that is still going strong? Again our experiences teach us different things, you learned to be impatient and doubt everything, I've learned to wait out the doomers, there's people already talking gloom and doom without info. I don't know I guess after enough time you know everything that you will see in a game forum. Wait until the devs say what they like mech wise and suddenly there'll be cries those models are op.
Honestly, there's plenty of threads of people saying they won't buy before they see more, go join one of those and let the devs know lots of people feel that way, if that's true. Otherwise starting another thread to whine about it serves no purpose. I hate to break it to you but your post isn't any different from the rest of those, so the devs have heard.
Spend or don't spend, but please keep it all in one place so the rest of us can move on. If you get a giant thread maybe you'll get some attention, dozens of the same thread accomplish nothing but make this place nastier than needed.