176 replies to this topic

[Kiiyor]

Flash Frame, on 15 October 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

I just don't understand the mentality.

The 6 AC2 Jager was awesome - a little annoying to face down, but still awesome, though I only ran it a handful of times. Also, you should get a MadDog, fill it with SRM2's, and macro that to make a missile vomit machine gun. HILARIOUSLY AWESOME.

It's also so ineffective that you won't quite be in the same league as the simian sodomizing quad gauss chumps out there, or those that used to get around the gauss chargeup on meta builds by macroing to fire PPC's at the same time.

I guess some of the macros are just for fun, others are to take away the fun of others

[Johnny Z]

Mercules, on 16 October 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Little off topic here since Macros are not a cheat according to the makers and operators of the game.

When I said I heard it all before I also meant the part where quotes were used to defend macro use. Players still ended up getting banned for it.

I dont know whats going to happen with this game but there is nothing new being said here.

The games usually end up having to get tough on 3rd party programs because they become so wide spread and then the reasons behind macro use become the same reasons behind using trigger bots, aim bots etc.

This game is a newer game and hasnt been infested with cheat programs as far as I know but if it does then their hand will likely be forced.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 October 2014 - 04:12 PM.

[Combat Loss Grouping]

Karl Streiger, on 16 October 2014 - 04:15 AM, said:

I'm sure the macro is already "fixed" with 3 gauss and an ER-Pep.
5 shots of 60 pinpoint with good aim - enough to remove 2 or 3 mechs from the game....

Coincidentally, I just dropped against a 12-man that had 2 DWFs doing this.

Both 3xGauss+ERPPC, both never hitting anything but CT.

We had 12 people in mumble and at least 5 of us were instantly cored.

I suspect in my case they were aimbotting as well.

Edited by Combat Loss Grouping, 16 October 2014 - 04:16 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Then there is the whole ugly side of things where in order for them to actually go after the aim bot makers and trigger bot makers they have to get tough on all the 3rd party programs as rule.

Thats why I said I was trying to do the other players a favour. These guys making this game are super nice, but I seen in other games they didnt tell anyone and then one day 450 players were banned when they got tough.

And it gets worse including another game using name and shame to try and fight aim botting and on and on.

I hope they never go the name and shame route in this game because it really breaks immersion when playing and then in red "so and so has been banned" comes into chat on every players screen. Im not making this up.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 October 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[SaltBeef]

Would be nice if we could hear the thing charging when under fire. Macro eliminates this I assume.

[Xarian]

The Gauss macro is an unintended consequence of their charge system. If they tweak the charge system - for example, by allowing only one Gauss to charge at a time and implementing a short global cooldown on Gauss rifles - then boating multiple Gauss becomes pointless and doesn't affect single Gauss rifles at all.

Aim botters, if they exist, of course would primarily use Gauss rifles - aim bots have no trouble compensating for the charge mechanic, and Gauss rifles generate no heat, have extremely fast projectiles, and recycle quickly. They are perfectly optimized for aim bots.

[Rhaegor]

Johnny Z, on 16 October 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

When I said I heard it all before I also meant the part where quotes were used to defend macro use. Players still ended up getting banned for it.

I dont know whats going to happen with this game but there is nothing new being said here.

The games usually end up having to get tough on 3rd party programs because they become so wide spread and then the reasons behind macro use become the same reasons behind using trigger bots, aim bots etc.

This game is a newer game and hasnt been infested with cheat programs as far as I know but if it does then their hand will likely be forced.

Dude. I don't even. This game is now 3 years old. You are so just wrong.

[Mercules]

Johnny Z, on 16 October 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

When I said I heard it all before I also meant the part where quotes were used to defend macro use. Players still ended up getting banned for it.

I dont know whats going to happen with this game but there is nothing new being said here.

The games usually end up having to get tough on 3rd party programs because they become so wide spread and then the reasons behind macro use become the same reasons behind using trigger bots, aim bots etc.

This game is a newer game and hasnt been infested with cheat programs as far as I know but if it does then their hand will likely be forced.

To what? Ban me because I use a mouse and keypad that is capable of doing macros? Even if I never program one for this game? What if I can, like I did with AC/2s way back when, get a rotation of dakka going without using a macro?

Basically you are telling me that because I'm not using a Dell mouse that came with my wife's laptop that I am cheating. I have an Orb Weaver keypad which puts the keys in a nicely organized manner under my fingertips and gives me ergonomic resting spots for my wrist and palm. It then had two easy thumb buttons and a hotas. I can also program it to switch where those keys are with a single press of a button to rearrange things, say like if I wanted the Night Vision button in a better spot when I drop on River City Night because I drop in and out of NV constantly while on that map.

Know what else I have... I have noise cancelling 7.1 Surround Sound headphones. That's right, I can tell where you are by the sounds your mech makes. I can tell very accurately.

I also have a Razer Naga mouse that puts those extra weapon groups under easy to hit buttons. I have a Track-IR system that tracks my head movement and since PGI put support into the game for it I can look around the cockpit and out the side windows while turning the torso which means I can torso twist away from the fire while still watching my opponent. I also have a computer that runs the game at 40-50 FPS most of the time.

So I guess PGI should make their program not accept input from my additional mouse buttons, not run while the Orb Weaver is plugged in, remove the Track-IR support, and limit CPU and GPU speeds so I run at 10 FPS so that I don't have any advantage over any other person who might play their game. Next up, if I have a ping under 50 it artificially increases it until it is around 200 so we don't disadvantage our overseas players.

I built a nice system with the toys I wanted to make the game run smoother and nicer. None of those mentioned are against PGI's acceptable use and in fact they ADDED support for one of those systems. So apparently they agree with the rest of us, that mechanical upgrades are not cheating, just good smart play.

[Karl Streiger]

Combat Loss Grouping, on 16 October 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

I suspect in my case they were aimbotting as well.

and here we have problems.
a good organized team with trained players are able to prime on the same target in an instant you don't even have to make a mistake - they prime you - and you get hit by multiple weapons.... you don't need an aimbot for this - if your training is good enough.
Question is how can you part the cheater from the trained? No chance.
Same for the magical turning after you approached from the rear - i also though three or four times - those guys are cheating.... but what about the legal wall hack - called seismic detector?

While you may don't know what is behind the next corner -they know where you will surround the corner - take can aim ... and in the moment you become visible - they fire maybe even before you recognize that there is something.

Not to mention the PING difference - if the enemy has a lower ping it could happen that you get damage without even see the enemy fire - same for low pinter as high pingers you can hit them even if you see that your shot does not connect.

So Mercules - idea of articially reduce the ping for all players at 150 isn't that bad

so tldr the only chance to part the cheater from the trained is constant reporting - weird behaviour - hope that the server data is capable to recognize this weird behaviour either.

as a personal statment:
there are hitboxe glitches with JJ hopping, you can turn faster while using -toggle arms, and center torso buttons, there are macros, there are stupid simple builds - that are things that make MWO easyer or smarter for you.
Its not what i want from this game - i don't want one shot kills - i don't want only 2 weapon groups - I want a challenging game - if you think you need meta builds, workarounds or abuse game mechanics - its your personal fault.
Most of my builds should also be able to carry their weight in a TableTop game - and no "competive" would ever be able to beat me in a real BattleTech game - and you know that is enough for me to when those KISS build players destroy my mech after game after game.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 16 October 2014 - 10:45 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Johnny Z, on 16 October 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

Then there is the whole ugly side of things where in order for them to actually go after the aim bot makers and trigger bot makers they have to get tough on all the 3rd party programs as rule.

Thats why I said I was trying to do the other players a favour. These guys making this game are super nice, but I seen in other games they didnt tell anyone and then one day 450 players were banned when they got tough.

And it gets worse including another game using name and shame to try and fight aim botting and on and on.

I hope they never go the name and shame route in this game because it really breaks immersion when playing and then in red "so and so has been banned" comes into chat on every players screen. Im not making this up.

It's a macro, not a hack tool.

[Mechteric]

I could maybe see PGI making it so only one Gauss can be charged up at a time. That would make more sense than anything else they could do short term. Long term of course I think a different mechanic would be better but at least for now it would seem acceptable.

[Murphy7]

Combat Loss Grouping, on 16 October 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Coincidentally, I just dropped against a 12-man that had 2 DWFs doing this.

Both 3xGauss+ERPPC, both never hitting anything but CT.

We had 12 people in mumble and at least 5 of us were instantly cored.

I suspect in my case they were aimbotting as well.

From page 2: I think aimbots are internetese for "I was beaten in a game, it cannot possibly be due to my poor play or the excellent play of others."

CTs are not exactly hard to hit, and given your "evidence" I am more likely to believe that you people face your targets while waiting for your weapons to cycle rather than twisting to spread damage.

Mechs are both slow and large, for the most part. Many are quite easy to hit, and hitting the center is the easiest choice to make.

I do not find your evidence compelling towards aimbots. I think aimbot is a convienient excuse.

[Frytrixa]

whats the secret behind 3xgauss? wasn't it so that you can only charge max. 2 at the same time and the cooldown affects also the third gauss?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Frytrixa, on 17 October 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

whats the secret behind 3xgauss? wasn't it so that you can only charge max. 2 at the same time and the cooldown affects also the third gauss?

What you can do is set up a macro that automatically with one button press accounts for all the built in charging and delays. It doesn't however eliminate them but rather take human error out of the equation.

Example, I do have a button on my mouse set up to fire Gauss Rifles. I press the button, my gauss starts charging like it would normally and then when fully charged it releases the button press automatically launching the round wherever my crosshair happens to be at the end of the charge. Nothing gets eliminated except for me having to try to manually judge how long to hold the charge button and release it. This makes the Guass rifle at LITTLE BIT easier to use though also creates some disadvantages as well.

One of the disadvantages is that once start the process it always fires, even if the target has moved behind cover or your not perfectly lined up on the target or even if a friendly walks in front of you. No matter what, it is firing. Basically you lose control of the timing of your shots. I end up wasting a bit of ammo because of this and at times my accuracy suffers.

However the macro, despite disadvantages is still easier than holding the button, while trying to judge how long to hold the button, which trying to judge lead and anticipate where the enemy will be when the rifle is charged, while trying to move, while trying fire other weapons that require different leads and aimpoints, while trying NOT to hold it too long and lose the charge. Doing this a nightmare and not fun at all. Without a macro, Gauss gets removed totally from my mechs. Basically it is just a bad mechanic in the first place, one that shouldn't require a macro and we are discussing the wrong issue right now because of it.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

I use dual Gauss on my Illya to this day to farm cbills. I actually think its better not to use a macro for dual Gauss, because I dont release the button until I am sure of a chance at a headshot. Ive been accused of aimbot/macros/hacking etc and I find it hilarious because I dont use any of it. I have a steel series gaming mouse with 4 buttons thats very ergonomic with my hand, and its all I need.

[TJ Saint]

Not necessarily off topic,but more a question in ignorance: I just got a Steelseries Sensei and I can't set it up to do a simple single button push to charge and fire the gauss. Any pointers?

[F4T 4L]

SI The Joker, on 16 October 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

Well to be fair, it is currently the only thing preventing this game from completely becoming gausswarrior online.

No chance of that happening until the game is balanced out of the tbr/scr warrior online local maxima its occupying.

Since so many many folk refuse to let go of the "tbr op is good" position, gauss isn't the major issue.

[SolCrusher]

I use macros and have since open beta. I have never been banned and I have admitted to macro use openly on here serveral times. Go look it up.

I use the dual guass+ ppc macro.
I use a macro with any of my Ultra AC setups.
I use a macro with any of my lbx AC setups.
I use a macro to control my heat with many laser setups.
I use a macro to deliver high damage shots.
I use a macro to deliver rapid fire that is faster than the in game chain fire.
I use a macro to use my macros.

Macro much bra? Yes I do. It honestly doesn't give me too much of an advantage. Just lets me play like I have two hands with 4 fingers and 1 thumb each.

Edited for typos

Edited by SolCrusher, 04 January 2015 - 06:49 AM.

[Dirkdaring]

Jason Parker, on 16 October 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

What they could do is remove the ridiculous mechanic that is worked around by the macro. And as far as desync goes: It isn't hard at all to create a macro that fires gauss and PPC at the same time so the macro works around that as well.

Yep. I said when they put the stupid mechanic I wouldn't give another dime to this game until it was reverted. And I haven't.

[Zerberus]

Almond Brown, on 16 October 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

As has been discussed here many many times. When a Macro can circumvent the weapons Cool Down timer, then it is a cheat. Pretty sure that is not even possible so it is all good.

And as has been stated equally as often, there is no way, theoretical or practical, for any macro to completely bypass any game mechanic, in any game, much contrary to your implication.

All a macro is is a preset sequence of keystrokes run off in an automated sequence.

There is no "instant reset for weapon X's CD" key.

Repeatedly pressing the trigger does NOT cause the weapon to cycle faster.

If you actually know how to use a clock or stopwatch, you`ll see that firing the 4 gauss in this fashion actually takes LONGER than firing them off 2+2. And that on teh other hand is something a monkey can do if he`s not using a one button apple mouse.

This whole thread amounts to "OMG!!!! THE SKY IS FALLING because someone macroed something any idiot with a 4 button mouse and time to practice can do, and it`s actually doing less instant damage than it was before...."

Rule 1 of understanding your profession: It`s impossible to have a rational discussion about any technical subject with laymen who don`t have a clue what they`re talking about.

And that`s why PGI never chimes in on these discussions but simply says what amounts to: "There`s the ToS, as you can see they are explicitly allowed, now get on with your lives instead of wasting server bandwith, oxygen, and time"

Edited by Zerberus, 04 January 2015 - 07:32 AM.