963 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

Glythe, on 17 October 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

More viable is not the same as equal or competitive with clan mechs. Therein lies the insult: "have this little pat on the back and you'll be good to go."

"I told him these quirks would put him in line with clan mechs!"

-And then there was much loling

This isn't a frickin' Clans thread, Glythe!

BELIEVE ME when I say that we all completely understand that you have an incredibly large axe to grind against Clan tech. Use one of the existing Clan threads for it, or start your own.

[King Arthur IV]

play a different variant for diversity.

[CDLord HHGD]

1453 R, on 17 October 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

This isn't a frickin' Clans thread, Glythe!

BELIEVE ME when I say that we all completely understand that you have an incredibly large axe to grind against Clan tech. Use one of the existing Clan threads for it, or start your own.

This I can finally agree with you on.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 17 October 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

I ain't getting crap, dood. Any of the 'Mechs depicted thus far that I actually own either don't gain any benefits to anything I do with them, or what I do with them only gains benefit from the smallest tertiary quirks. Also I think you've got me and Cavale confused. I do have a Jester, and I'd like to see its hardwired mobility penalties removed as well, but I haven't brought it up yet.


It's just so incredibly draining to see a bunch of people so incredibly fastened onto the whole general "Well I'm soooorrryyyy you don't like the flavor of your FREE CAKE!" argument to see that mayhaps offering a free cake to some people and jack-monkey nada to other people, as opposed to a free cupcake to everybody and an additional cupcake to some people, as was Piranha's original stated plan, has caught folks off-guard and gotten them dismayed.

Watching everybody else eat their free cake we can't have any of is pretty lame, man. Pretty lame indeed.

I guess I just don't see where they are peeing in your cheerios.

You can't really make it all things to all people, or you pretty well obviate the whole point of the quirks, and leave things respectively in a similar place to where they are now.

Yeah, I get it. Some pet builds, mine included, are not benefiting (much). They also are not being hurt any. And in most cases, have viable alternative chassis or variants that CAN do said builds with bonuses.

So I guess I just don't see mechs getting bonuses for DOING WHAT THEY WERE DESIGNED TO DO (for the most part, others are simply to make them competitive) really should be ruining anyone's day.

[Macksheen]

King Arthur IV, on 17 October 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

play a different variant for diversity.

Hero mech you no longer like because the quirks go to far making one build better buy-back program?

Which won't happen ... but I think they need to be more careful with the real $ hero mechs and not pigeon-hole them too greatly.

I'll ditch the chassis I don't like; I have no qualms about that. Might be harder on the heroes though.

Be funny if the IS all of a sudden is (practically speaking) still easier to customize but with less variety-on-chassis than an OmniMech. The clan stuff is fun, but really the models are so similar that once you master them for most you may as well just run the primes.

Edited by Macksheen, 17 October 2014 - 01:47 PM.

[1453 R]

At least I'm keeping my spleen-venting in the one thread specifically intended for venting spleen over the issue. Don't think I've seen a single post out of Glythe in the last however-man-Glythe-posts-I've-seen in any thread I've seen it in that hasn't essentially boiled down to "Isn't that cute? Too bad the Dire Whale's still OP."

You guys think you're tired of me, man...

[Bishop Steiner]

Glythe, on 17 October 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

The JJ/ECM bit is a bit extreme. So you're telling me a C4 only gets 3 buffs because it's a lame duck t4 with JJ? Oh right that makes SO much sense.



More viable is not the same as equal or competitive with clan mechs. Therein lies the insult: "have this little pat on the back and you'll be good to go."

"I told him these quirks would put him in line with clan mechs!"

-And then there was much loling

Lolz.

Either you are a troll man, or a BAD. Or a Bad troll. But either way, your QQ Crusade is 100% fail.

[Tynan]

1453 R, on 17 October 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

I ain't getting crap, dood. Any of the 'Mechs depicted thus far that I actually own either don't gain any benefits to anything I do with them, or what I do with them only gains benefit from the smallest tertiary quirks. Also I think you've got me and Cavale confused. I do have a Jester, and I'd like to see its hardwired mobility penalties removed as well, but I haven't brought it up yet.


It's just so incredibly draining to see a bunch of people so incredibly fastened onto the whole general "Well I'm soooorrryyyy you don't like the flavor of your FREE CAKE!" argument to see that mayhaps offering a free cake to some people and jack-monkey nada to other people, as opposed to a free cupcake to everybody and an additional cupcake to some people, as was Piranha's original stated plan, has caught folks off-guard and gotten them dismayed.

Watching everybody else eat their free cake we can't have any of is pretty lame, man. Pretty lame indeed.

Ok, I can get that this isn't going to be perfect for everyone (and there are reasonable arguments to be had regarding individual variant changes), but I'm curious--honestly not intending to be combative--what would you have preferred for, say, the HBK-4G? It get a single weapon bonus, sure, but it also gets an all-around hunch-durability bonus AND minor bonuses to an entire weapon class.

How else would you prefer this had been approached?

[Mothykins]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

And what pray tell would you have done to the 1V?

Buff the Medium Laser to LL Specs in it, and the MGs 200% more effective? Because trying to run it with "stockish" weapons is pretty much death. And the vast majority of semi-effective builds for it run an ER LLaser. So yes, it doesn't fit YOUR perfect design. Ever think that YOUR preferred buffs might not fit with the desires of a ton of other players who paid IRL money for them?

Gosh golly, I bought Phoenix package, and while I was surprised when they announced the LL buff for a Locust, I can't say I cried. Since I run an ER Large on mine. So is your entitlement issues more important than mine, or maybe, just maybe is PGI trying to find the buffs that benefit the MOST people, while realizing that it is impòssible to make 100% of people happy?

I'm sorry your 2 pet mechs are not coming out exactly how you like them. But I also am sorry I used to respect your posts a lot more before all this constant Forum Rage F-bomb dropping entitlement nonsense started.

http://mwomercs.com/...errated-locust/

I can bet you that if I made a Poll on the 1V, more people run stockish builds than an ERLL. It's a loved mech that is usually run close to stock, and I see it as a gutpunch because it bought it for that. I didn't buy it going "Oh man, A single ERLL!"

I don't think anyone did.

I find the Buff to be in incredibly poor taste, and think that something else could have been done for it, seeing that Even running a just Med Las and 4 Machine guns I can crank out 200-300 Damage a match. And before you bring up ELO, I see [LORD] tags pretty regularly. I'm not at the bottom of the bracket. Faster firing medium laser with more range would have been killer. Better machine guns would have been great. This kills what the 'mech was, why I bought it, and I'm quite frankly unimpressed. I feel they could have done much better and didn't.

I get that they didn't nerf the Mech, but they're such huge bonuses that not running what goes with them them is giving yourself a huge handicap, especially when other 'mechs that ARE running with full quirk boosted Specs are going to be much, much more deadly.


I understand that I sound entitled. I apologize for the less than great language. To both you and Mercules. It is uncalled for, and it is a culmination of me having a bad day in general with mass disappointment over this.


PS, Merc? Stop adding belittling comments and insults designed to garner more reaction out of me or others. Inciting rage in someone to make them seem less intelligent and just some angry fellow that you can laugh off is not winning an argument, it's being an *******. Don't do it.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 17 October 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

At least I'm keeping my spleen-venting in the one thread specifically intended for venting spleen over the issue. Don't think I've seen a single post out of Glythe in the last however-man-Glythe-posts-I've-seen in any thread I've seen it in that hasn't essentially boiled down to "Isn't that cute? Too bad the Dire Whale's still OP."

You guys think you're tired of me, man...

well, Glythey is on my ignore list for a reason. If the dude isn't just a butthurt troll, he's apparently a bad who needs to L2P. Either way, not worth paying attention to.

Would guestimate he will probably escalate to official griefer/troll and get hisself banned in not too long.

Cavale, on 17 October 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...errated-locust/

I can bet you that if I made a Poll on the 1V, more people run stockish builds than an ERLL. It's a loved mech that is usually run close to stock, and I see it as a gutpunch because it bought it for that. I didn't buy it going "Oh man, A single ERLL!"

I don't think anyone did.

I find the Buff to be in incredibly poor taste, and think that something else could have been done for it, seeing that Even running a just Med Las and 4 Machine guns I can crank out 200-300 Damage a match. And before you bring up ELO, I see [LORD] tags pretty regularly. I'm not at the bottom of the bracket. Faster firing medium laser with more range would have been killer. Better machine guns would have been great. This kills what the 'mech was, why I bought it, and I'm quite frankly unimpressed. I feel they could have done much better and didn't.

I get that they didn't nerf the Mech, but they're such huge bonuses that not running what goes with them them is giving yourself a huge handicap, especially when other 'mechs that ARE running with full quirk boosted Specs are going to be much, much more deadly.


I understand that I sound entitled. I apologize for the less than great language. To both you and Mercules. It is uncalled for, and it is a culmination of me having a bad day in general with mass disappointment over this.


PS, Merc? Stop adding belittling comments and insults designed to garner more reaction out of me or others. Inciting rage in someone to make them seem less intelligent and just some angry fellow that you can laugh off is not winning an argument, it's being an *******. Don't do it.

can't recall the last time I saw a "stockish" Locust except in SMM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yeah, I get it. Some pet builds, mine included, are not benefiting (much). They also are not being hurt any.

This is what the argument is really about, and your viewpoint is something I don't actually agree with.

Yes, mechs are not getting directly nerfed in that only positive quirks are being added. The thing to keep in mind, is that it IS an indirect nerf to those configs. Each IS mech will have a config that is 'better' meaning the overall power of mechs has increased which means all those old builds will be less effective overall than they were before (that is if no one is running the meta models). Everything fits in the same system, and when you raise the capability of all bottom tiers you inevitably lower the capability in regards to non-pigeon holed configs.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 17 October 2014 - 01:55 PM.

[Mothykins]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

can't recall the last time I saw a "stockish" Locust except in SMM.

I see them often, actually. 1V are usually stock or close to, the allure of the quad Machine guns is great.

Not always preforming great, mind you, but I see them. Usually it's the Laser or Missile builds though.

See them in group drops quite a bit as well.

EDIT: I'm also in the same Bracket as I ZERATUL I and that lily person..

Edited by Cavale, 17 October 2014 - 02:07 PM.

[Tynan]

WM Quicksilver, on 17 October 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

This is what the argument is really about, and your viewpoint is something I don't actually agree with.

Yes, mechs are not getting directly nerfed in that only positive quirks are being added. They thing to keep in mind, is that is an indirect nerf to those configs. Each IS mech will have a config that is 'better' meaning the overall power of mechs has increased which means all those old builds will be less effective overall than they were before (that is if no one is running the meta models).

The problem with this argument is that by this logic any buff, of any kind, is an "indirect nerf" to everything else. Did you reduce heat on the LL? It's an "indirect nerf" to every other direct fire weapon. It's not a constructive argument.

Given that stock-ish loadouts were generally not viable, making them moreso (rather than simply worse) than meta-whoring builds is a good thing, just like buffing weapons that compete with PPCs / AC/5 is / was a good "indirect nerf." (for this reason, I actually agree, albeit less vehemently, with Casale regarding the Locust. Buffing a weapon the mech was never intended to carry is just surrender, really, but I can see the logic)

Notice in many, many cases non-meta weapons are the ones getting the bonuses (LBX on the Centie, for example)

[Spades Kincaid]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

well, Glythey is on my ignore list for a reason. If the dude isn't just a butthurt troll, he's apparently a bad who needs to L2P. Either way, not worth paying attention to.

Would guestimate he will probably escalate to official griefer/troll and get hisself banned in not too long.

Yet Glythe gets you guys to respond to him. Zero feedback or thoughts on the overall JJ/ECM question I posed. Go figure?

Not about me personally. Just food for thought.

[Joe Mallad]

1453 R, on 17 October 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

I ain't getting crap, dood. Any of the 'Mechs depicted thus far that I actually own either don't gain any benefits to anything I do with them, or what I do with them only gains benefit from the smallest tertiary quirks. Also I think you've got me and Cavale confused. I do have a Jester, and I'd like to see its hardwired mobility penalties removed as well, but I haven't brought it up yet.


It's just so incredibly draining to see a bunch of people so incredibly fastened onto the whole general "Well I'm soooorrryyyy you don't like the flavor of your FREE CAKE!" argument to see that mayhaps offering a free cake to some people and jack-monkey nada to other people, as opposed to a free cupcake to everybody and an additional cupcake to some people, as was Piranha's original stated plan, has caught folks off-guard and gotten them dismayed.

Watching everybody else eat their free cake we can't have any of is pretty lame, man. Pretty lame indeed.

wait a sec! I wanted my cake to taste a bit like "I want to ALSO play Clan mech in CW as I payed for $240 ******* dollars worth of them and want to use Clan tech." But because my cake and Merc Unit comes from the inferior IS, guess what? I cant have my tasty cake that is I can play anything I want with any weapons I want in CW. So yeah, I cant have my cake and eat it too!!

[Bishop Steiner]

Spades Kincaid, on 17 October 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Yet Glythe gets you guys to respond to him. Zero feedback or thoughts on the overall JJ/ECM question I posed. Go figure?

Not about me personally. Just food for thought.

Maybe you need to follow Glythes approach to spam post it EVERYWHERE.

We probably didn't see buried in a heaping pile of Glythe QQ

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tynan, on 17 October 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

The problem with this argument is that by this logic any buff, of any kind, is an "indirect nerf" to everything else. Did you reduce heat on the LL? It's an "indirect nerf" to every other direct fire weapon. It's not a constructive argument.

Actually, it is a contructive argument. That's why whenever the discussion about the constant buffing weapons or nerfing outliers doesn't really matter, the only thing that matters in that argument is the overall power level of the game. For example, when PPCs were buffed a long time ago that helped bring along the PPC meta, it was in fact an indirect nerf too all other weapons and it also increased the overall power level of the game. Buffing and nerfing is all about changing relationships in regards to other weapons as well as the overall power level of the current state of the game.

Tynan, on 17 October 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

Given that stock-ish loadouts were generally not viable, making them moreso (rather than simply worse) than meta-whoring builds is a good thing, just like buffing weapons that compete with PPCs / AC/5 is / was a good "indirect nerf." (for this reason, I actually agree, albeit less vehemently, with Casale regarding the Locust. Buffing a weapon the mech was never intended to carry is just surrender, really, but I can see the logic)

Notice in many, many case

Non-meta weapons may be non-meta for a reason, like they are bad. Sure the LBX10 CN9-D will be fun and awesome, but why does it have to be an LBX10 considering the CN9-A and it already have differing hardpoints and engine speeds that separated the two in the first place. Or why not buff the LBX10 to actually be worthwhile (like more damage per pellet as opposed to increased crit chances) on top of some ballistic boost to the CN9-D?

I'm waiting to see the Firestarter get Flamer buffs and everyone just laugh.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 17 October 2014 - 02:16 PM.

[Prezimonto]

1453 R, on 17 October 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Right.

Got it.

Understood.

I'm a s*** player in a bunch of s*** 'Mechs with a s*** opinion who should get his s***ty s*** self out of here and uninstall.

Why do I ever bother to try and hold a discussion in this slimepit again?

I'm sorry, I tried to soften that by adding after that I understand trying/having fun with "bad" or "non-meta" builds. So if you're bad, I'm bad too. My point was, quirks or not, we can still do that, as customization isn't being limited at all. Seriously, not intending to insult you, perhaps I misunderstood or misrepresented the crux of your argument.

[Rhaegor]

They could give hero mechs the general buffs that people are describing. Make the hero mechs more versatile due to their real money cost. I bet they would sell more of them as well if they did that. But, leave current mech quirks like they are, with specific role like bonuses.

Edit: Also, jump jets should not affect quirks in anyway. They are not that great. ECM on the other hand, I guess I can live with.

Edited by Rhaegor, 17 October 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[DarthPeanut]

I am excited and cannot wait for quirks.

It gives certain mechs a role that play to the strengths of their hard points... no brainer.

The hard points of each mech tend to lead them in a direction for a build already unless you are just one of those people who like to try to make abstract loadouts work.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 17 October 2014 - 02:18 PM.