963 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

KraftySOT, on 18 October 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Theres still I believe something like 50 variants yet to be released. You have no idea.



Check Russ's twitter yo

yeah I seen it posted in another thread. So yeah I stand corrected. I was going off of what he had posted on these forums as of now.

[J0anna]

WM Quicksilver, on 18 October 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

I dont think you understand what the point behind those opposing some of the weapon specific quirks either.

Rather than trying to do it my normal way, let me put it this way.
A bad Shadow Hawk config is better than other bad builds on lower tiered mechs because the Shadow Hawk is inherently good (good hitboxes, high weapon mounts, etc).
Weapon specific quirks do nothing to combat that, they do not make lower tier mechs more inherently good unlike the Hunchbacks hunch HP boost quirks. They are entirely conditional on you running a specific config for it to be competitive with the Shadow Hawk, who can still take a bad config and be better than mechs not running those specific configs.

That is the part you are assuming. You really don't know that. There comes a point where you're ability to put out damage and take damage will make your "inherently poor mech" better than the standard Shadow Hawk, when you have more DPS, for the same heat, as well as the ability to take more damage and your rounds fly faster thus you hit more often, there comes a point where your worse weapons layout or hit boxes are worth it because you kill stuff faster and easier than the Shadow Hawk. For example, lets compare the SHD-2d2 to the HBK-4g

Right now the Shadow Hawk, is better, period. Lets give the HBK a 200% damage boost using the AC-20. All of a sudden the HBK can one shot most mechs and 2 shot pretty much everything. Do you think people would start using the HBK? Of course they would, is makes a ac40 jager look like a peashooter. So there is a point where quirks will make a mech very competitive. The point we're arguing is really how much should it be. 20% might not seem like enough for you, but add in a boost to other weapons, as well as tanking and a reduction in heat (so you can use less heat sinks and pack a bigger engine). And yes, many small quirks can make a very big difference. Now add in modules, and all of a sudden people are using them in competition - that's what PGI is trying for. If the mechs are being used - the balance is good (or too much) if the balance isn't enough, it will become obvious as they still don't get used.

Here's another example, take a raven 2x, give it a 10x damage boost to ERPPC's, as well as a 90% heat reduction and a 3x ERPPC speed increase. Insane right? Extremely over powered, you would see them in droves as people enjoy one-shooting every other mech in game. But the mech wouldn't be tier 5 anymore. Obviously PGI wants to avoid that, so they are trying a more gradual approach. What we can't know is when the gradual approach is "just right" until we see the results.

Edited by Moenrg, 18 October 2014 - 12:39 PM.

[Alienized]

lol new quirks wont stop me from experimenting around as always. thats a personal problem, nothing else. i ran loadouts I feel comfortable with and no one else has to use them.
if you change your behaviour because of that..... damn son something is wrong then.
from what i see most people already lack experimenting. they just use Meta loadouts and fail terribly with them.
or would you ever drive a cicada with ac/2, med pulse laser + 2 med laser? propably not. why am i doing it then? because it suits me.
no quirk can change that. if I FEEL like i need to change it then i do that. and nothing/no one else.

[Joe Mallad]

Aliisa White, on 18 October 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

lol new quirks wont stop me from experimenting around as always. thats a personal problem, nothing else. i ran loadouts I feel comfortable with and no one else has to use them.
if you change your behaviour because of that..... damn son something is wrong then.
from what i see most people already lack experimenting. they just use Meta loadouts and fail terribly with them.
or would you ever drive a cicada with ac/2, med pulse laser + 2 med laser? propably not. why am i doing it then? because it suits me.
no quirk can change that. if I FEEL like i need to change it then i do that. and nothing/no one else.

very well said!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Moenrg, on 18 October 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

That is the part you are assuming. You really don't know that. There comes a point where you're ability to put out damage and take damage will make your "inherently poor mech" better than the standard Shadow Hawk, when you have more DPS, for the same heat, as well as the ability to take more damage and your rounds fly faster thus you hit more often, there comes a point where your worse weapons layout or hit boxes are worth it because you kill stuff faster and easier than the Shadow Hawk. For example, lets compare the SHD-2d2 to the HBK-4g

That isn't an assumption, maybe I was less concise than I needed to be.
In your comparison, you are comparing the HBK-4G running those specified configs which is not what I was referring too.

A Shadow Hawk running a bad configuration is bad simply because of the configuration.
For sub-optimal mechs though, this would not be the case with weapon specific quirks. The Hunchback is probably one of the worst examples for this because it has some of the best unconditional quirks in the armor/internal boost, but let's say it didn't have it. Then a bad Hunchback config is bad not only because the Hunchback is sub-optimal (and not getting unconditional quirks to allow it to compete), but it is also running a bad configuration.
I don't think this has to be the case with quirks, general weapon quirks can pretty much alleviate most of the issues. There will still be configurations that are unable to take advantage of these quirks but it's a start. Honestly it would be cooler for me to see weapon quirks relegated to sections rather than just in general, similar to how omnipod quirks work.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 18 October 2014 - 01:14 PM.

[Dracol]

WM Quicksilver, on 18 October 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

Just because something negative doesn't get applied doesn't mean that the variant doesn't get worse.....

This is incorrect logic. Since no negatives are applied, its effectiveness compared to how it was before has not changed.
Your current mech will still do the same damage, with the same heat, at the same range as it does now. It loses 0 effectiveness. If your current build is contributing against clan opponents now, then you'll be fine post quirk pass.

WM Quicksilver, on 18 October 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

A mech's effectiveness is determined by its relationship to the effectiveness of other mechs and if all the mechs are able to run better things, those builds are in fact worse even if the top tier is unaffected.

If you are not contributing effectively against clans at the moment, then I could, possibly understand, in a vague, round-about way, why one would think their build "loses" effectiveness, because it is ineffective to begin with and there will be more mechs on the field that will help you understand how ineffective the build is to begin with.

[Mark Brandhauber]

Aliisa White, on 18 October 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

and now to you again: you can still use your build on that mech and it wont play any different than before.
thats a FACT. NOTHING is going to be changed on that.
after quirks it just might be even BETTER on a DIFFERENT shadowhawk version. now whats your damn problem again?

English is not your first language so I forgive the aggression in your post. Yes I can still use my build.... but it will be will not be quirked. My guess at quirks on the 2h is ac5 and ppc quirks; a build for a different era in the games meta.
And just so you know that was my first post in this thread and I'm not against IS quirks, just sad a good mech that has been good to me will not be using the mech to it's full potention as it clearly does now.
As a pilot of many a tier 5 and 4 mechs I welcome the quirks with open arms.
To you sir I say good day!

Edited by Mark Brandhauber, 18 October 2014 - 01:33 PM.

[King Arthur IV]

guys guys this is the first big balance change since..... ever. like finally they are going to move balancing along and i hope its just the beginning.

there are a lot of possibilities to add in weapon specific quirks so don't get your panties in a bunch since its only the start.

im just happy to finally see them picking up the pace and it really is a good sign so lets not shut it down before it even had a chance to roll out.

[Alienized]

so you say: the mech you use and is currently very good will be bad just because it doesnt get quirks. well..... nothing else to say. really. that mindset is something i dont want to understand.
you can only GUESS about the quirks. they are not even aplied to the game and yet you see everything is going to be bad.

i currently use my quickdraw with passion. i ranked 12th in the first worthy adversary and 6th in the second with it. it was never meta and will never be.

now what if the quirks dont fit in there. i dont even care about it. i can care about it the patch is finally there. not do some weird argumentations about what might be.

its all a matter of... YOU!

btw: i currently drive a locust so dont tell me anything about bad mechs.

[1453 R]

I'm going to explain a point here that many, many, many people in this thread are misunderstanding, and also using to try and bludgeon those who are dismayed at the initial implementation of the quirk system into shutting up and giving up all their existing builds for new lore-and-quirk-compliant models.

That argument is as follows:

"Your old bad FrankenMech builds AREN'T GETTING ANY WORSE. THEY WILL DO THE SAME THING THEY ALWAYS DID. You just get special bonuses if you play the 'Mech as it should be played according to Piranha's one single chosen build per chassis which will hopefully be based very closely on the lore-appropriate stock build for that 'Mech. You don't lose anything. Nothing is lost. SO SHADDAP ALREADY!"

This is incorrect.

Let us say that on a scale of 1-100, the current effectiveness of every single 'Mech in the game, taken as an aggregate whole, is 50. 50 Awesomeness is the average effectiveness level of the entire game, from the baddest-ass Timber Wolf fit to the lamest two-MG Dragon. In this world, your off-fit Wolverine, let's say, manages to attain an individual Average Awesomeness Value of 53, due to your own ability to pilot it and your familiarity and personal effectiveness with its unconventional weapons loadout. 53 means you're ahead of the curve, if only a little bit, and that you can feel confident your off-beat, fun-to-pilot build is still contributing to the match.

But now, the Quirk Pass goes into effect. Suddenly, the Average Awesomness Value of the entire game, as a whole, shoots up to 65. 65 is the new average point, as compared to the previous fifty. Your own Wolverine also gets up to 55 Awesomeness based on some form of general buff that PGI determined made sense on Wolverines, and so your own personal offbeat build is, in fact, more effective than it used to be!

But it's still way behind the curve now, where it used to be ahead of the curve.

You didn't lose a single thing, no, and you even gained a couple of points of Average Awesomeness, but everyone else, who follows the strictly defined builds allowed them by their new quirk set, has gained far more awesomeness than you have. You're no longer able to feel confident in the ability of your off-beat, fun-to-pilot build to contribute to the match. The only choice you have, if you want to get back to the same Average Awesomeness level as everyone else around you, is to put together a build for your Wolverine which conforms strictly to its given quirks, and to Gehenna with what you wanted to do with it.

"But 1453-R, you're forgetting something! WHY DON'T YOU JUST BUY WHATEVER 'MECH HAS THE QUIRKS THAT GO WITH WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, YOU DUMB LITTLE S***F***ER?!"

Because they don't make 'Mechs that have the quirks that go with what everyone wants to pilot.

My CDA-3M, for example, has run mixed laser builds for a very long time. It's a fast beam hitter, and even with lousy Spheroid lasers, the 2x Large Laser/2x medium laser hunter build is a weapon comfortable in my hand, and a buddy I've had a lot of fun with.

Now? Well, if I want my CDA-3M to not stink up the entire planet, I get to build it around a single Ultra-5. Which the CDA-3M has never had the tonnage to effectively support, and which single gun has never been effective anyways. My slick hunter-killer I used to kill two Cataphracts and a Stalker gets to just...vanish. Because it's not the extremely, unbelievably awful stock build, and thus not the TT diehards' Vision of What the Cicada Should Be. And since the entire game is about to get a pretty hefty power boost, either I comply with my quirks and keep up, or I sacrifice the ability to contribute to matches. If I want to buy an IS medium 'Mech that has good speed, agility and also a laser-centric armament?

They don't make Crabs yet. So I guess I get to just go and f*** myself, don't I?

That is a lousy choice to ask someone to make, guys. We're all going to have to make it anyways, but maybe you could be a little more sympathetic to people who were hoping for split quirks, or some other method of not being left completely and utterly in the dust by builds with 50% increased fire rates, 25% increased ranges, and 25% decreased heat generation on the large lasers that used to be my goddamn guns, too?

Edited by 1453 R, 18 October 2014 - 02:01 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dracol, on 18 October 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

This is incorrect logic. Since no negatives are applied, its effectiveness compared to how it was before has not changed.

Actually, it isn't incorrect logic. If we really want to get into 'logic' I could mathematically prove my statement if need be.

Dracol, on 18 October 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

Your current mech will still do the same damage, with the same heat, at the same range as it does now. It loses 0 effectiveness. If your current build is contributing against clan opponents now, then you'll be fine post quirk pass.

If you are not contributing effectively against clans at the moment, then I could, possibly understand, in a vague, round-about way, why one would think their build "loses" effectiveness, because it is ineffective to begin with and there will be more mechs on the field that will help you understand how ineffective the build is to begin with.

Again, you aren't taking into account that effectiveness is very much relative to the environment.
Sure the stats remained unchanged for that specific build, but that is hardly all that matters in a game, especially one that suffers power creep. Things that were one effective are no longer effective even despite no negative changes. Good example would be the 6 SL JR7-F that was one of the goto lights before DHS were released. Nothing negative was applied to it, yet its effectiveness was very much affected by changes elsewhere (like the introduction of DHS).

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 18 October 2014 - 02:15 PM.

[Burktross]

1453 R, on 18 October 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

I'm going to explain a point here that many, many, many people in this thread are misunderstanding, and also using to try and bludgeon those who are dismayed at the initial implementation of the quirk system into shutting up and giving up all their existing builds for new lore-and-quirk-compliant models.

That argument is as follows:

"Your old bad FrankenMech builds AREN'T GETTING ANY WORSE. THEY WILL DO THE SAME THING THEY ALWAYS DID. You just get special bonuses if you play the 'Mech as it should be played according to Piranha's one single chosen build per chassis which will hopefully be based very closely on the lore-appropriate stock build for that 'Mech. You don't lose anything. Nothing is lost. SO SHADDAP ALREADY!"

This is incorrect.

Let us say that on a scale of 1-100, the current effectiveness of every single 'Mech in the game, taken as an aggregate whole, is 50. 50 Awesomeness is the average effectiveness level of the entire game, from the baddest-ass Timber Wolf fit to the lamest two-MG Dragon. In this world, your off-fit Wolverine, let's say, manages to attain an individual Average Awesomeness Value of 53, due to your own ability to pilot it and your familiarity and personal effectiveness with its unconventional weapons loadout. 53 means you're ahead of the curve, if only a little bit, and that you can feel confident your off-beat, fun-to-pilot build is still contributing to the match.

But now, the Quirk Pass goes into effect. Suddenly, the Average Awesomness Value of the entire game, as a whole, shoots up to 65. 65 is the new average point, as compared to the previous fifty. Your own Wolverine also gets up to 55 Awesomeness based on some form of general buff that PGI determined made sense on Wolverines, and so your own personal offbeat build is, in fact, more effective than it used to be!

But it's still way behind the curve now, where it used to be ahead of the curve.

You didn't lose a single thing, no, and you even gained a couple of points of Average Awesomeness, but everyone else, who follows the strictly defined builds allowed them by their new quirk set, has gained far more awesomeness than you have. You're no longer able to feel confident in the ability of your off-beat, fun-to-pilot build to contribute to the match. The only choice you have, if you want to get back to the same Average Awesomeness level as everyone else around you, is to put together a build for your Wolverine which conforms strictly to its given quirks, and to Gehenna with what you wanted to do with it.

"But 1453-R, you're forgetting something! WHY DON'T YOU JUST BUY WHATEVER 'MECH HAS THE QUIRKS THAT GO WITH WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, YOU DUMB LITTLE S***F***ER?!"

Because they don't make 'Mechs that have the quirks that go with what everyone wants to pilot.

My CDA-3M, for example, has run mixed laser builds for a very long time. It's a fast beam hitter, and even with lousy Spheroid lasers, the 2x Large Laser/2x medium laser hunter build is a weapon comfortable in my hand, and a buddy I've had a lot of fun with.

Now? Well, if I want my CDA-3M to not stink up the entire planet, I get to build it around a single Ultra-5. Which the CDA-3M has never had the tonnage to effectively support, and which single gun has never been effective anyways. My slick hunter-killer I used to kill two Cataphracts and a Stalker gets to just...vanish. Because it's not the extremely, unbelievably awful stock build, and thus not the TT diehards' Vision of What the Cicada Should Be. And since the entire game is about to get a pretty hefty power boost, either I comply with my quirks and keep up, or I sacrifice the ability to contribute to matches. If I want to buy an IS medium 'Mech that has good speed, agility and also a laser-centric armament?

They don't make Crabs yet. So I guess I get to just go and f*** myself, don't I?

That is a lousy choice to ask someone to make, guys. We're all going to have to make it anyways, but maybe you could be a little more sympathetic to people who were hoping for split quirks, or some other method of not being left completely and utterly in the dust by builds with 50% increased fire rates, 25% increased ranges, and 25% decreased heat generation on the large lasers that used to be my goddamn guns, too?

Pretty much sums up everything I believe too. Good show.

[Sovery_Simple]

I will still say, I prefer quirks vs no quirks, and definitely prefer them compared to size hardpoints, which TRULY would kill customization.

[KraftySOT]

1453 R, on 18 October 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

I'm going to explain a point here that many, many, many people in this thread are misunderstanding, and also using to try and bludgeon those who are dismayed at the initial implementation of the quirk system into shutting up and giving up all their existing builds for new lore-and-quirk-compliant models.

That argument is as follows:

"Your old bad FrankenMech builds AREN'T GETTING ANY WORSE. THEY WILL DO THE SAME THING THEY ALWAYS DID. You just get special bonuses if you play the 'Mech as it should be played according to Piranha's one single chosen build per chassis which will hopefully be based very closely on the lore-appropriate stock build for that 'Mech. You don't lose anything. Nothing is lost. SO SHADDAP ALREADY!"

This is incorrect.

Let us say that on a scale of 1-100, the current effectiveness of every single 'Mech in the game, taken as an aggregate whole, is 50. 50 Awesomeness is the average effectiveness level of the entire game, from the baddest-ass Timber Wolf fit to the lamest two-MG Dragon. In this world, your off-fit Wolverine, let's say, manages to attain an individual Average Awesomeness Value of 53, due to your own ability to pilot it and your familiarity and personal effectiveness with its unconventional weapons loadout. 53 means you're ahead of the curve, if only a little bit, and that you can feel confident your off-beat, fun-to-pilot build is still contributing to the match.

But now, the Quirk Pass goes into effect. Suddenly, the Average Awesomness Value of the entire game, as a whole, shoots up to 65. 65 is the new average point, as compared to the previous fifty. Your own Wolverine also gets up to 55 Awesomeness based on some form of general buff that PGI determined made sense on Wolverines, and so your own personal offbeat build is, in fact, more effective than it used to be!

But it's still way behind the curve now, where it used to be ahead of the curve.

You didn't lose a single thing, no, and you even gained a couple of points of Average Awesomeness, but everyone else, who follows the strictly defined builds allowed them by their new quirk set, has gained far more awesomeness than you have. You're no longer able to feel confident in the ability of your off-beat, fun-to-pilot build to contribute to the match. The only choice you have, if you want to get back to the same Average Awesomeness level as everyone else around you, is to put together a build for your Wolverine which conforms strictly to its given quirks, and to Gehenna with what you wanted to do with it.

"But 1453-R, you're forgetting something! WHY DON'T YOU JUST BUY WHATEVER 'MECH HAS THE QUIRKS THAT GO WITH WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, YOU DUMB LITTLE S***F***ER?!"

Because they don't make 'Mechs that have the quirks that go with what everyone wants to pilot.

My CDA-3M, for example, has run mixed laser builds for a very long time. It's a fast beam hitter, and even with lousy Spheroid lasers, the 2x Large Laser/2x medium laser hunter build is a weapon comfortable in my hand, and a buddy I've had a lot of fun with.

Now? Well, if I want my CDA-3M to not stink up the entire planet, I get to build it around a single Ultra-5. Which the CDA-3M has never had the tonnage to effectively support, and which single gun has never been effective anyways. My slick hunter-killer I used to kill two Cataphracts and a Stalker gets to just...vanish. Because it's not the extremely, unbelievably awful stock build, and thus not the TT diehards' Vision of What the Cicada Should Be. And since the entire game is about to get a pretty hefty power boost, either I comply with my quirks and keep up, or I sacrifice the ability to contribute to matches. If I want to buy an IS medium 'Mech that has good speed, agility and also a laser-centric armament?

They don't make Crabs yet. So I guess I get to just go and f*** myself, don't I?

That is a lousy choice to ask someone to make, guys. We're all going to have to make it anyways, but maybe you could be a little more sympathetic to people who were hoping for split quirks, or some other method of not being left completely and utterly in the dust by builds with 50% increased fire rates, 25% increased ranges, and 25% decreased heat generation on the large lasers that used to be my goddamn guns, too?

So because of quirks you cant still mount a single UAC5 and kill those mechs? Those mechs are all getting invulnerability quirks that make them impossible to kill?

Dude if youre killing mechs in a Cicada with a single UAC5...trust me nothing will change for you. Youll still be doing that.

[Mercules]

Prosperity Park, on 18 October 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

We all know that the Hunchback-4H is designed to run an AC/20 and 5ML, whereas the Hunchback-4G is designed to run multiple ballistics. Look at the hardpoints that PGI game them - the Hunchback-4G is an inferior carrier of the AC/20 compared to the -4H.

Time to point out that PGI did not give hardpoints to early mechs, or really any mechs since, based upon what PGI intended them to run. Instead PGI gave them hardpoints based upon what STOCK loadouts had with a bit of game balance thrown in. The Stock 4G runs a single AC/20. Because it ran a BIG gun PGI decided it then had a lot of "ballistic" space in that location and put in three Ballistic hardpoints. the 4G fresh out of the mech store comes with an AC/20. So... You are wrong. Now go rethink your reasoning after you consider that you are incorrect as to why and how those mechs got the hardpoints they got.

1453 R, on 18 October 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

This is incorrect.

Let us say that on a scale of 1-100, the current effectiveness of every single 'Mech in the game, taken as an aggregate whole, is 50.

Your mistake is assuming the general populus runs around in Tier 4 & 5 mechs. You are not currently competing against Tier 5 mechs on a regular basis. You are competing against Tier 1-3 mechs with a heavy leaning towards Tier 1. So aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallll those tier 5 mechs that will be getting a sudden boost that you currently are not fighting, are not affecting the current power level of the game because they don't end up in matches very often. So again, you are not losing power because they are gaining power using a few specific builds. Instead you will be at the exact same place but instead of facing Tier 1-2 mechs you will be facing Tier 1-2 mechs and 3-5 mechs that are hopefully nearly Tier 1-2 with their quirks.

Your target was Tier 1-2 mechs with the occasional 3-5 mechs thrown in. Now it will be Tier 1-5 mechs with hopefully the same power level with the occasional 3-5 not using the full potential of their quirks. SAME LEVEL OF PLAY. Nothing changed except PGI increased the number of mechs we can bring to the table and not feel like we are at the low side of the bell curve.

[ShinobiHunter]

You guys do realize mechs aren't getting negative quirks for not using the stock loadout, right? The loadout you run now will work just as well and probably better after the quirks. So really you're just upset that your preferred loadout is not the meta for that variant?

[ShinobiHunter]

If you're running a tier 4 or 5 mech now, chances are you're really not that concerned about being the absolute best mech on the field. You're running it for kicks and giggles, and that's not going to change. Also this is just a start, Russ has said they will tweak the quirks as needed.

[CheeseyPeas]

1453 R, on 18 October 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

I'm going to explain a point here that many, many, many people in this thread are misunderstanding, and also using to try and bludgeon those who are dismayed at the initial implementation of the quirk system into shutting up and giving up all their existing builds for new lore-and-quirk-compliant models.

That argument is as follows:

"Your old bad FrankenMech builds AREN'T GETTING ANY WORSE. THEY WILL DO THE SAME THING THEY ALWAYS DID. You just get special bonuses if you play the 'Mech as it should be played according to Piranha's one single chosen build per chassis which will hopefully be based very closely on the lore-appropriate stock build for that 'Mech. You don't lose anything. Nothing is lost. SO SHADDAP ALREADY!"

This is incorrect.

Let us say that on a scale of 1-100, the current effectiveness of every single 'Mech in the game, taken as an aggregate whole, is 50. 50 Awesomeness is the average effectiveness level of the entire game, from the baddest-ass Timber Wolf fit to the lamest two-MG Dragon. In this world, your off-fit Wolverine, let's say, manages to attain an individual Average Awesomeness Value of 53, due to your own ability to pilot it and your familiarity and personal effectiveness with its unconventional weapons loadout. 53 means you're ahead of the curve, if only a little bit, and that you can feel confident your off-beat, fun-to-pilot build is still contributing to the match.

But now, the Quirk Pass goes into effect. Suddenly, the Average Awesomness Value of the entire game, as a whole, shoots up to 65. 65 is the new average point, as compared to the previous fifty. Your own Wolverine also gets up to 55 Awesomeness based on some form of general buff that PGI determined made sense on Wolverines, and so your own personal offbeat build is, in fact, more effective than it used to be!

But it's still way behind the curve now, where it used to be ahead of the curve.

You didn't lose a single thing, no, and you even gained a couple of points of Average Awesomeness, but everyone else, who follows the strictly defined builds allowed them by their new quirk set, has gained far more awesomeness than you have. You're no longer able to feel confident in the ability of your off-beat, fun-to-pilot build to contribute to the match. The only choice you have, if you want to get back to the same Average Awesomeness level as everyone else around you, is to put together a build for your Wolverine which conforms strictly to its given quirks, and to Gehenna with what you wanted to do with it.

"But 1453-R, you're forgetting something! WHY DON'T YOU JUST BUY WHATEVER 'MECH HAS THE QUIRKS THAT GO WITH WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, YOU DUMB LITTLE S***F***ER?!"

Because they don't make 'Mechs that have the quirks that go with what everyone wants to pilot.

My CDA-3M, for example, has run mixed laser builds for a very long time. It's a fast beam hitter, and even with lousy Spheroid lasers, the 2x Large Laser/2x medium laser hunter build is a weapon comfortable in my hand, and a buddy I've had a lot of fun with.

Now? Well, if I want my CDA-3M to not stink up the entire planet, I get to build it around a single Ultra-5. Which the CDA-3M has never had the tonnage to effectively support, and which single gun has never been effective anyways. My slick hunter-killer I used to kill two Cataphracts and a Stalker gets to just...vanish. Because it's not the extremely, unbelievably awful stock build, and thus not the TT diehards' Vision of What the Cicada Should Be. And since the entire game is about to get a pretty hefty power boost, either I comply with my quirks and keep up, or I sacrifice the ability to contribute to matches. If I want to buy an IS medium 'Mech that has good speed, agility and also a laser-centric armament?

They don't make Crabs yet. So I guess I get to just go and f*** myself, don't I?

That is a lousy choice to ask someone to make, guys. We're all going to have to make it anyways, but maybe you could be a little more sympathetic to people who were hoping for split quirks, or some other method of not being left completely and utterly in the dust by builds with 50% increased fire rates, 25% increased ranges, and 25% decreased heat generation on the large lasers that used to be my goddamn guns, too?

This

[Sovery_Simple]

KraftySOT, on 18 October 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

So because of quirks you cant still mount a single UAC5 and kill those mechs? Those mechs are all getting invulnerability quirks that make them impossible to kill?

Dude if youre killing mechs in a Cicada with a single UAC5...trust me nothing will change for you. Youll still be doing that.

Eh, try reading that again, you misread what he wrote.

To help: He's saying that if the quirks focused on the stock-ish variations, that means it will buff the AC5. He says that the 2 Mlas, 2 LLas build will still be left at tier 3, and that the cicada cannot effectively mount an AC5, so the quirks will come, the ac5 build may get a little better. But it's a poor idea to run, and his "good" build for the mech will be left behind, while it just needed a couple of "quirks" to make it really shine as a tier 1 equivalent. Instead they may work on the ac5 and it will still be crappy at the end of the day, while giving the people that have nice builds for it the finger.

As a 3m user, and as someone that will say "yeah, the 2 mlas and 2 llas is one of the ideal builds for it", I'd agree that focusing the quirks on the single ballistic slot (which is crammed into the ECM side of the mech) is a poor idea, as the mech can't really use it, and the energy it -does- use will need the buffs more.

Hopefully they focus on blanket energy buffs, combined with Mlas range buffs so the Mlas hit closer to the LLas ranges, with -energy heat, and -energy cooldown or duration.




Though, to mirror your earlier comment, yeah, props to those that make an ac5 work on the mech.

Edited by Whoops, 18 October 2014 - 06:39 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I can't believe this thread lasted 30 pages.

Would people do me a favor? Cease and desist in replying to this thread, plz.

There are many threads more deserving of being on page 1 of the forum than this one.