963 replies to this topic

[JozefK]

KraftySOT, on 17 October 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

Lets say youre the fastest racer in Nascar. You can go 220mph, and everyone else goes 180.

So Nascar invents some fuel that gets more HP, and puts it in all the other cars but yours. Thier cars now go 210mph, and yours goes 220mph.

If you say youre car got worse in this scenario, youre a freaking idiot.

Good you are smart!

You have just discovered an edge case.

Yes if you are by far better then others, quirks will not affect you drastically. In all other cases, it will.

[Tezcatli]

I'm inclined to disagree. The first two responders pretty much summed up how I feel about it

If they decide to add different sized hard points. THAT will actually restrict customization. This is only encouraging specific weapons. And they seem to include one general weapon type quirk, so you'll probably have something to work with even if you don't agree with their choice in specialization.

I wholeheartedly agree with the mechs being specialized by quirks. Because it makes them more then just a set of hardpoints and hitboxes. And you can still put whatever you want and play however you want.

[Mercules]

JozefK, on 17 October 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

It's economy stuff. Devalvation of value.

Except the scenario you laid out isn't what is happening. What is happening is that 1 car has 500 HP the other cars have less in varying amounts. They can't give them as much HP so the give one car an improved suspension so it handles better, another a slightly more aerodynamic frame so even with less HP it can come closer to the the 500 HP car's performance. None of them have 500 HP like the one, but they all have small changes that will make them come a bit closer in competition with the 500HP car.

So your complaint is that other mechs might actually be closer to being worth running? They might be slight more competitive? Yeah... that is going to fall on deaf ears.

[UnsafePilot]

JozefK, on 17 October 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Yes if you are by far better then others, quirks will not affect you drastically. In all other cases, it will.

Exactly, if you weren't already 'by far better than others' quirk's will help bring you up to being competitive. How is that a bad thing?

Edited by UnsafePilot, 17 October 2014 - 07:59 AM.

[Abisha]

KraftySOT, on 17 October 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

Lets say youre the fastest racer in Nascar. You can go 220mph, and everyone else goes 180.

So Nascar invents some fuel that gets more HP, and puts it in all the other cars but yours. Thier cars now go 210mph, and yours goes 220mph.

If you say youre car got worse in this scenario, youre a freaking idiot.

UnsafePilot, on 17 October 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

If your mech was competitive before it will still be competitive after. The heavy handed quirks are being applied to mech's that aren't currently competitive Nothing's being taken away from the mechs/variants that were already competitive..

but it still losing it's customization, lets say he used X weapon but bonus is only for Z. so the player is forced to to use Z weapon or loss 25% of the positional damage output.

Edited by Abisha, 17 October 2014 - 08:03 AM.

[Lily from animove]

JozefK, on 17 October 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Good you are smart!

You have just discovered an edge case.

Yes if you are by far better then others, quirks will not affect you drastically. In all other cases, it will.

that is why we get those quriks, those quriks are specially chosen for those cars being very bad in their engine to be bale now to compete. thats not a random chosen buff to a random car. It was investigated first which car is how slow comapred to others and decided which car too boost.

[UnsafePilot]

Abisha, on 17 October 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

but it still losing it's customization, lets say he used X weapon but bonus is only for Z. so the player is forced to to use Z weapon or loss 25% of the positional damage output. if he keeps using weapon Z he lost 25% potential damage output their for being discouraged.

No amount of output is being taken away; you're choosing not to use something that has a higher damage output. You were already doing that if you were running any of the mechs that are getting these quirks.

Edited by UnsafePilot, 17 October 2014 - 08:04 AM.

[xeromynd]

Quote

Hunchback 4Partyback Tier 4 Skirmisher

Additional Structure RT +50
Mech Speed +25%
Small Pulse Laser Heat Generation -30%
Small Pulse Laser Range +40%
Small Pulse Laser Cooldown +30%
Small Pulse Laser Duration -20%

pls

Edited by xeromynd, 17 October 2014 - 08:07 AM.

[Mercules]

JozefK, on 17 October 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Good you are smart!

You have just discovered an edge case.

Yes if you are by far better then others, quirks will not affect you drastically. In all other cases, it will.

Edge case? Go look at the tier list.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3776433

Only Tier 1 & 2 are currently considered "viable" by most of the community. While some people still run other mechs(I do) they are bringing less potent mechs to the battlefield. Notice that 3/4 of the mechs are less than tier 2 with half of them being lower than tier 3. HALF THE MECHS FOR IS are "underpowered".

If you are running one of those you will get a boost. If you are running Tier 1 or 2 you will still be on top as they are being brought up to you, not surpassing you.

If you run a 2 AC/20 Cicada... well... no one cares what you think.

[JozefK]

KraftySOT, on 17 October 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

This is based on the premise that all mechs are equal now. That premise is wrong. So I didnt bother reading past that.

No, its like your race car (if you have a meta build) going 220mph, and EVERY other race car, going 180mph or slower.

So the racing officials, come up with this special sauce that gives all the cars but your car, a boost to Horse Power. So now their cars can go 210mph.

Your car still goes 220mph. And if you were one of the other races, your car just got better.

Ok, let me help you again.

Not all cars have the same engine, some are stronger then others.

Your car might drop into one of three categories:
1) it is the best car in the race and by far
2) it is the best car in the race but not by far
3) it is not the best car in the race

Let's see:

1) it is the best car in the race and by far
In this case the fact that other cars are getting their engine somewhat buffed will not affect you.

2) it is the best car in the race but not by far
You might be in trouble here because the second best car might become better then you with his engine buffed.

3) it is not the best car in the race
You are again in trouble, as your positioning might be compromised after other cars buffed their engines. If you were candidate for position X, you might now fall down several places depending on the scale of the differences.

So yea, it devaluates your car in most cases.

Edited by JozefK, 17 October 2014 - 08:06 AM.

[Mercules]

Abisha, on 17 October 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

but it still losing it's customization, lets say he used X weapon but bonus is only for Z. so the player is forced to to use Z weapon or loss 25% of the positional damage output.

AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaand? I don't see a problem with that. Especially considering without it you have no viable build. It has customization but no one would customize it because even with that it has less potential.

[VanillaG]

Abisha, on 17 October 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

but it still losing it's customization, lets say he used X weapon but bonus is only for Z. so the player is forced to to use Z weapon or loss 25% of the positional damage output.

Min/maxers are going to lose their minds for a couple of days/weeks until they figure out the meta builds.

[KraftySOT]

JozefK, on 17 October 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Good you are smart!

You have just discovered an edge case.

Yes if you are by far better then others, quirks will not affect you drastically. In all other cases, it will.

And if you arent in one of the mechs right now that is far better than the rest...this is whose fault?

So youre in one of two boats. Youre in the, im driving the best, by far, mechs in the game and nothing changes for me but the insane lead I have over all my competitors (thats me currently) or, youre in one of the subpar mechs getting beat to death by the MetaCity5. (Yeah thats an MC5 reference) In which case your ride, no matter what youre carrying on it, just got alot better, or marginally better.

If you dont want to embrace it...theres nothing stopping you from driving around at 160mph. You dont have to change your load out.

If you were perfectly happy in your Locust or Wolverine before...getting your **** knocked n the dirt by every meta mech out there, nothing changed for you. If however the quirks apply to you in some fashion, you at least got a better performing mech out of it. If you were looking for a new mech to buy, maybe one now that didnt catch your fancy, does. And its going to be alot better doing what you want it to do.

The only way things changed, is if you, personally, choose to drive bad designs, and are now effectively worse, than the people who embraced it, or whose load outs already matched up with some quirks.

[Mcgral18]

Abisha, on 17 October 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

but it still losing it's customization, lets say he used X weapon but bonus is only for Z. so the player is forced to to use Z weapon or loss 25% of the positional damage output.

Guess what?

You are not forced to use those weapons. You can choose to use them for the bonus, or use the weapons you want exactly as they perform currently, or better since you might get a dissipation bonus.


How are people even arguing against quirks...

Edited by Mcgral18, 17 October 2014 - 08:09 AM.

[Abisha]

UnsafePilot, on 17 October 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

No amount of output is being taken away; you're choosing not to use something that has a higher damage output. You were already doing that if you were running any of the mechs that are getting these quirks.

i can assure you stockholders do not agree with that assumption as do i.
you have X damage output lets say 60 damage with specific quarks your damage output is 75 that's comparable to 3xAC5 weapons with the same amount of heat.
their for you are really stupid not using the specific designed weapon on the mech.
leaving to more Meta builds then ever before.

Edited by Abisha, 17 October 2014 - 08:10 AM.

[UnsafePilot]

VanillaG, on 17 October 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

Min/maxers are going to lose their minds for a couple of days/weeks until they figure out the meta builds.

Min/maxers aren't running any of the mechs that are receiving big boosts.

[Mothykins]

Ok ok, SOT, you're really looking at this a little poorly.

Per Chassis, you are, in fact, losing diversity. You can't get away from that. On the Micro level of individual Mechs, you are losing diversity. My Locust Build has 4 Machine Guns and one Small Pulse Laser. Three quirks for it are for the ERLL (wtf.) So now, unless I am moving to the ERLL build, I'm losing out on three buffs (1/4 of my tonnage on a single gun. Seriously.).

Using the car Analogy, The other guys car was just given 210 HP, but mine still has 180. This is where you're losing your own argument; The buffs are not increasing every possible build equally. They are encouraging specific builds. That is not diversity.


On a MACRO scale, yes, we will see more diversity. Different mechs, new Meta builds. But on a Micro Scale we're going to lose quite a bit.



EDIT: Also, talking Smack about Locusts isn't cool. Still better than 1:1 KDR, and seeing and killing [LORD] tags quite a bit. Bite me.

Edited by Cavale, 17 October 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[JozefK]

So quirks are designated only for underperforming mech variants? Anyone mind putting a reference for that?

[KraftySOT]

Mercules, on 17 October 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Edge case? Go look at the tier list.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3776433

Only Tier 1 & 2 are currently considered "viable" by most of the community. While some people still run other mechs(I do) they are bringing less potent mechs to the battlefield. Notice that 3/4 of the mechs are less than tier 2 with half of them being lower than tier 3. HALF THE MECHS FOR IS are "underpowered".

If you are running one of those you will get a boost. If you are running Tier 1 or 2 you will still be on top as they are being brought up to you, not surpassing you.

If you run a 2 AC/20 Cicada... well... no one cares what you think.

Exactly.

Im going to run an AC/20 on my Raven.

I dont give two shits about its Quirks. Im sure itll be narc, ecm, and large laser related. Im piloting a Raven because its Laio, and because I can mount an AC/20. Thats it. Im still going to be KO'd mechs with two hits to the back. I dont care about the Quirks...

AND YOU SHOULDNT EITHER.

Use them if you want, if not, dont.

A good build is a good build, regardless. Youre not going to stop Dual Gauss, AC20s, EPPCs, and the such from being good weapons. No amount of goading you into a Jager with lasers, is going to get you to rip out your Gausses or Ac20s.

There isnt even a tier 1 medium for godsake.

Well there is...the Doomcrow. Which will ahve to face off against Cicadas and such in CW...so...IS needs boosts. There needs to be some tier 1 and tier 2 options.

[Chip Danger]

JozefK, on 17 October 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Ok, let me help you again.

Not all cars have the same engine, some are stronger then others.

Your car might drop into one of three categories:
1) it is the best car in the race and by far
2) it is the best car in the race but not by far
3) it is not the best car in the race

Let's see:

1) it is the best car in the race and by far
In this case the fact that other cars are getting their engine somewhat buffed will not affect you.

2) it is the best car in the race but not by far
You might be in trouble here because the second best car might become better then you with his engine buffed.

3) it is not the best car in the race
You are again in trouble, as your positioning might be compromised after other cars buffed their engines. If you were candidate for position X, you might now fall down several places depending on the scale of the differences.

So yea, it devaluates your car in most cases.

Sure if your happy with last place. (At this point I'm guess you are) An armor buff on the HBK is still an Armor buff on the HBK it's win win for HBK users everywhere. The only point in even trying to refute at point is your already in a T1-T2 mech and your worried some other mech is going to put your baby to shame.