Greetings Mechwarriors.
Some of you may have seen my post foretelling and warning against the quirk system which has now been confirmed for the November 4th patch. In it I also gave some suggestions of how quirks could still embrace loadout customization.
An update has come out, essentially to the point that they are rolling the quirks to a more generalized state in the first implementation rather than in a later update. Welp, I've got nothing to complain about, and neither do most of you. Yay!
In all honesty, the original idea of the quirk pass would have suited most players just fine, as we saw with the rate of "likes" on this post and the large number of negative comments aimed at the general vicinity of it, if sometimes missing the point even quite spectacularly. Only a handful players seemed to have been badly tripped up and left out of the new order of IS 'mechs. We got a lucky break. Thanks PGI!
This post is unofficially closed. I'm not deleting it for historical reasons.
The old contents:
Spoiler
The plan we saw suggested in earlier posts (such as one of the Town Hall things) was a minor buff (10%) to all weapons of a family, say ballistics for the Hunchback. On top of this would stack a slightly better (15%) buff for the designated weapon, the AC20 in this case. This would allow other builds to flourish even while giving special emphasis on the “optimal” weapon. This idea has been totally discarded, and there is no stated reason for this change of heart.
This quirk system which is now suggested will bring each variant in line with a higher standard of firepower, but it will annihilate the very essence of Mechwarrior, which is to choose the weaponry to bring to the battlefield. The buff of 25% to multiple areas of one weapon's efficacy will basically make any other build inherently sub-par and will negate the benefit of the quirks, leaving it forever in dusty ignominy. *Though there are no actual negative buffs, within the chassis, you essentially give up 25% firepower by selecting a non-buffed weapon in a very real sense.*
The point of the quirk pass is to make less-used 'mechs useful again. The problem is that this quirk pass only benefits pilots on the condition that they give up their right to run whatever the hell they want. The implication is that they must give up freedom for power, and it's the maximum kick in the pants.
If I pack my Hunchie 4G with 2xAC5, it will in a very objective sense be weaker than one equipped as the devs have decided the 'mech should be.
Please back me on this. PGI, for the first time in a long while, has rustled the hell out of my jimmies. They need to spread the benefits of the quirk system to apply to multiple builds of the same 'mech in order to keep customization alive. Even if the devs just reduced the buff to a smaller margin (perhaps 15%?) other builds could be reasonably run. When you approach 20% increased firepower, the above effect of essentially enforced loadouts comes into play.
The idea with this post is to make enough noise to get PGI to reconsider their plan BEFORE it goes into place, only to be fixed a long way down the road. Please comment, if only to spout disagreement.
**EDIT** Seeing as this topic has grown nuclear hot, I'll give an update. Hopefully this helps calm some peeps. If you understand the logic of what I'm saying (admittedly in a pretty cut-and-dry, inflammatory way), then you are entitled to your opinion on whether the negative effect on per-variant loadout diversity is taking away from the benefits of the quirk pass. Please discuss. I am disappointed, however, at how inflammatory and ill-addressed some (most) of the responses to my criticism were.
The words "viable" and "competitive" are being thrown around, but really I'm only concerned with customization: that is, tailoring your build to a particular play style, however unique. I am worried about whether a pilot can reap good benefits from the quirk system without being obligated to quit trying new things out. Many commenters missed the point. I totally agree that the great power of the perks given to weak 'mechs, approaching 50%(Holy moly!!!) shorter cooldown on certain weapons, will totally bring them into competitive status.
The trouble is, to capitalize on these awesome quirks you really have to fall into line in terms of builds. For instance, the triple-AC2 Hunchie, which isn't a "stupid newb build", will miss out on the greatest part of the HBK-4G perks. I find this very sad, but I'm coming to accept it. Don't expect me to like it, though. The 'mech lab will get just a bit less exciting.
Additional Armor (RT) +18 Additional Structure (RT) +12 AC/20 Range +25% AC/20 Cooldown +25% AC/20 Velocity +25% Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12% Energy Weapon Range +16%
You got the choice between any energy wep. PPCs...pulses, large lasers, medium lasers...a better AC/20 than the Jager is going to have (though only 1 if thats your thing).
You still get more protection for anything you put in the RT. Still want 2xAC5s? They still have a great fire rate and twice the range. That and some ERLL will still be a good build, and itll be better, than the build was before.
You can still laser vomit if you want. You can still mount a gauss. Its not hurting those builds and the fact remains that those builds DONT EXIST. Almost no one is running around in this chassis as it is.
If this convinces one person to buy this mech, and play it. Theres more diversity than there was the day before Quirks were released.
It's encouraging specialization, not killing customization.
If min/maxing is your thing either swap to the weapon that the quirk buffs or to a mech that has quirks for your preferred weapon. If it's not your thing than life is business as usual.
LocationHiding in the periphery, from Bounty Hunters
Posted 17 October 2014 - 06:54 AM
So what your bitching about is PGI making the game closer to the canon its derived from, where mechs were designed to take a standard weapons system, and custom jobs were as supposed to be by any sane engineering sub optimal.
makes mechwarrior mechwarrior and not generic stompy robot
Additional Armor (RT) +18 Additional Structure (RT) +12 AC/10 Range +20% AC/10 Cooldown +20% Medium Laser Cooldown +20% Medium Laser Heat Gen -20%
This one is a little more pigeon holed, and may not improve its desireability at all. So nothing has changed.
The fact remains that you gravitate towards meta builds, and of the meta builds, there are only about 12.
If this leads to ONE MORE VIABLE COMPETITIVE BUILD, it increases diversity, and theres no scientifically possible way that this will lead to LESS than 12 viable competitive builds.
Especially since it only touches the IS, and 3 of the 5 best mechs, are clan. Timby, Doomcrow, and Whale.
I'm playing this game for over a month now and all what i have seen PGI is doing is trying to maximize profit. Every single change is aimed at making players desparate to visit the shop. No improvements on other fields whatsoever.
Quirks - basicaly PGI has figured that players are not motivated to buy many mech variants because they can simply reconfigure the one they have. With quirks, they will make your gameplay less variant and therefore you will need to obtain new variants.
EDIT: wow looking at the replies, so many people completely missed the point.
This chassis' best attempt at a Meta build....is either laser vomit, helped considerably by 16% less duration (more damage on target faster) and the structure increase...or the more reasonable PPC vomit build that now has the one complaint about it (ppc projectile speed) fixed for it.
Now the Direwhale and Warhawk have a PPC spammer to deal with that currently, only existed on 3 mechs. Now theres a 4th.
DIVERSITY.
Its not the end all be all of diversity...it seriously wll only increase the viable builds from ~12 to maybe ~18.
Thats still better than it is now. You people are dense.
Greetings Mechwarriors.
Some of you may have seen my post foretelling and warning against the quirk system which has now been confirmed for the November 4th patch.
We see that each 'mech is given major or minor defensive buffs, but is also given terrifically powerful buffs to one weapon type chosen by the devs. The fact of the matter is this: With the guns in MWO having been essentially balanced before this patch, the one-weapon buff will essentially make it a handicap to choose and run ANY weapon other than the buffed one.
The plan we saw suggested in earlier posts (such as one of the Town Hall things) was a minor buff (10%) to all weapons of a family, say ballistics for the Hunchback. On top of this would stack a slightly better (15%) buff for the designated weapon, the AC20 in this case. This would allow other builds to flourish even while giving special emphasis on the “optimal” weapon. This idea has been totally discarded, and there is no stated reason for this change of heart.
This quirk system which is now suggested will bring each variant in line with a higher standard of firepower, but it will annihilate the very essence of Mechwarrior, which is to choose the weaponry to bring to the battlefield. The buff of 25% to multiple areas of one weapon's efficacy will basically make any other build inherently sub-par and will negate the benefit of the quirks, leaving it forever in dusty ignominy. *Though there are no actual negative buffs, within the chassis, you essentially give up 25% firepower by selecting a non-buffed weapon in a very real sense.* If I pack my Hunchie 4G with 2xAC5, it will in a very objective sense be weaker than one equipped as the devs have decided the 'mech should be.
Please back me on this. PGI, for the first time in a long while, has rustled the hell out of my jimmies. They need to spread the benefits of the quirk system to apply to multiple builds of the same 'mech in order to keep customization alive. Even if the devs just reduced the buff to a smaller margin (perhaps 15%?) other builds could be reasonably run. When you approach 20% increased firepower, the above effect of essentially enforced loadouts comes into play.
If you're going to piss moan and whine about them putting in this quirks system then at least propose an alternative fix. So what's the fix for Dragon's huh? And Locust, I'm dying to know what your idea is to make the locust a usable mech on the battlefield.
So out with it, what's the fix. You can't just whine and get your way. Might want to clarify how buffs affect what's currently happening....there's no buffs and people put whatever weapons they want on a mech, you realize it can STILL happen after this right?
Those quirks are crazy though, dare I say the clan mechs are going to need a buff after this.
-25% PPC heat....I wonder if that affects ghost heat calculations.
Edited by shad0w4life, 17 October 2014 - 07:08 AM.
Quirks - basicaly PGI has figured that players are not motivated to buy many mech variants because they can simply reconfigure the one they have. With quirks, they will make your gameplay less variant and therefore you will need to obtain new variants.
Those variants being available for cbills pokes a hole in the profit theory imo. More likely the quirk system is being released for the stated reasons.
Also im excited to see how some mechs deal with tubes, and their quirks. It makes sense now to mount LRM5s alot instead of the bigger launchers...buffs to the bigger launchers would be cool, so those iconic mechs can use 2xlrm 20s and 15s without being compelled to strip them off for 10s and alot of 5s.
I've updated the main post to respond to your arguements.
"Though there are no actual negative buffs, within the chassis, you essentially give up 25% firepower by selecting a non-buffed weapon in a very real sense."
And what if you are someone who is ok with not having the optimal benefit? For instance if you want a Gauss on your Hunchback you are getting a weapon that has much better range and much less heat than an AC/20. It's a trade-off and its 100% acceptable.
OP the only person this hurts customization for is the min maxer who only runs the best meta for a mech available already who might want to finally run a HBK etc...but lets face it...a min maxer isnt likely running them anyway.
Fact is these quirks are all buffs so far. Sure they pigeonhole a portion of the buffs but not all of them. And if someone feels twin uac are better or gauss is better than the traditional AC in spite of the buffs, they lose NOTHING.
Sorry you dont get carte blanche to improve every variation of your mech that you can dream up. This is still a better way to go by PGI that allows for incremental changes that create l3ss risk for unbalancing the game.
If you're going to piss moan and whine about them putting in this quirks system then at least propose an alternative fix. So what's the fix for Dragon's huh? And Locust, I'm dying to know what your idea is to make the locust a usable mech on the battlefield.
So out with it, what's the fix. You can't just whine and get your way.
I responded to this in my previous article, basically to the effect that weapon buffs weren't the only way to go about making bad 'mechs useful again. I also mentioned in the OP that the old system would have been more acceptable: that of splitting the 25% extra awesome between a general family buff and a specific weapon buff, so that more adventuresome builds would benefit from the new quirks. http://mwomercs.com/...09#entry3817509
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