963 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Ghost Badger, on 17 October 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

When you have so many chassis that have nearly identical hardpoints this becomes a FANTASTIC way to ENCOURAGE diversity among mech loadouts.

So all HBK 4G's will be rocking an AC-20? Wow...at least there's a reason to actually TAKE one now, instead of nearly ANY other mech with the same hardpoints and better hitboxes.

You mean like a Shadowhawk that can also mount the same weapon loadout as the HBK-4G but with more armor and JJs? See, this is what the people arguing against this don't get. You won't see an HBK because the Shadowhawks can do it BETTER. Add in a quirk and if someone wants a medium with an AC20 they will look strongly at a HBK-4G.

[AlmightyAeng]

Mercules, on 17 October 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

You mean like a Shadowhawk that can also mount the same weapon loadout as the HBK-4G but with more armor and JJs? See, this is what the people arguing against this don't get. You won't see an HBK because the Shadowhawks can do it BETTER. Add in a quirk and if someone wants a medium with an AC20 they will look strongly at a HBK-4G.

Precisely. Thanks for the assist

[Mercules]

Abisha, on 17 October 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

hmm getting clear now, lower the Tier the bigger the bonus.

also they neglected to state that Top tier mech's not get quarks.
in this case those in the tiers are indeed in need of a buff. (bonus)

miss communication is really a nasty thing.

Not bothering to know what you are talking about before opening your mouth is.... well... pretty common these days.

[UnsafePilot]

Abisha, on 17 October 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

also they neglected to state that Top tier mech's not get quarks.
in this case those in the tiers are indeed in need of a buff. (bonus)

miss communication is really a nasty thing.

From:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3772924

Inner Sphere Quirk System

"... Tier 1 Mech's won't receive any quirks at this point in time, while Tier 5 ‘Mechs will be receiving serious attention..."

Edited by UnsafePilot, 17 October 2014 - 09:06 AM.

[Mercules]

JozefK, on 17 October 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

I already did. Noone has yet beaten that argument and i'll not repeat myself.

If you do not get it, so be it.

Can you please tell us what your mech build is that this is likely to ruin?

[AlmightyAeng]

Abisha, on 17 October 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

hmm getting clear now, lower the Tier the bigger the bonus.

also they neglected to state that Top tier mech's not get quarks.
in this case those in the tiers are indeed in need of a buff. (bonus)

miss communication is really a nasty thing.

Russ Bullock - Posted September 29th

Quote

This has allowed us to categorize each Inner Sphere 'Mech, from Tier 1 being the best to Tier 5 being the least competitive. Tier 1 Mech's won't receive any quirks at this point in time, while Tier 5 ‘Mechs will be receiving serious attention.

It may be more of a case of you neglecting to read.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 17 October 2014 - 09:07 AM.

[Abisha]

Mercules, on 17 October 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Not bothering to know what you are talking about before opening your mouth is.... well... pretty common these days.

like the information is wild spread right....

only thing i see is a list of mechs with tiers.
also the list is incomplete witch i assume that those not listed get those quirks

Edited by Abisha, 17 October 2014 - 09:10 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Abisha, on 17 October 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

like the information is wild spread right....

only thing i see is a list of mechs with tiers.

If you're looking at the list of mechs with Tiers in the October Road Map Post...read the post directly above it...the first one.

[Cattra Kell]

for those missing it

http://mwomercs.com/...30#entry3827030

[Kaeb Odellas]

Alek Ituin, on 17 October 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

Because the canon loadouts are what the Mech was built for, and what quirks will reinforce.

Either respect BT lore, or don't play a BattleTech/MechWarrior game. It really is that simple.

Canon loadouts were built around a tabletop system where mechs weren't supposed to be balanced in terms of battlefield capability.

MWO is a 1st person vehicular combat game. It needs to focus first on being a good video game. Lore is important, but should come secondary to making a game that actually works. If a lore-friendly solution to a problem can be found, then great! If not, then you need to kick lore to the curb and ensure your game actually works.

[AlmightyAeng]

Kaeb Odellas, on 17 October 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Canon loadouts were built around a tabletop system where mechs weren't supposed to be balanced in terms of battlefield capability.

MWO is a 1st person vehicular combat game. It needs to focus first on being a good video game. Lore is important, but should come secondary to making a game that actually works. If a lore-friendly solution to a problem can be found, then great! If not, then you need to kick lore to the curb and ensure your game actually works.

I think this IS a lore-friendly balance solution though. It's like Merc said up top regarding the Hunchback.

Right now, why would you EVER take an AC20 Hunchback when you can take the SAME loadout on a Shadowhawk...in addition to getting more armor, better hitboxes, and jumpjets?

With the quirk system, taking a Hunchback as a specialized AC20 medium vs. taking a Shadowhawk is actually a question, rather than a no-brainer.

[Mercules]

Kaeb Odellas, on 17 October 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Canon loadouts were built around a tabletop system where mechs weren't supposed to be balanced in terms of battlefield capability.

MWO is a 1st person vehicular combat game. It needs to focus first on being a good video game. Lore is important, but should come secondary to making a game that actually works. If a lore-friendly solution to a problem can be found, then great! If not, then you need to kick lore to the curb and ensure your game actually works.

Which is what they did. They didn't FORCE you to equip an AC/20 on the HBK-4G. You can mount two ERLL and 3 machine guns on it and you would still be getting a boost from some of the quirks. However, if you mount an iconic AC/20 on it you get slightly better quirks. Then again even with the AC/20 you can choose to upgrade the head laser from a Small to a Medium or change them all to SPLs or mount an AC/20 and a PPC and run with a bit less engine size.... or.... or.... and you are still using all the quirks.

[UnsafePilot]

Kaeb Odellas, on 17 October 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

MWO is a 1st person vehicular combat game. It needs to focus first on being a good video game. Lore is important, but should come secondary to making a game that actually works. If a lore-friendly solution to a problem can be found, then great! If not, then you need to kick lore to the curb and ensure your game actually works.

This system is aimed at accomplishing the first goal. It's just letting lore guide what would otherwise be arbitrary decisions about which get's what.

[DaZur]

Mercules, on 17 October 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Not bothering to know what you are talking about before opening your mouth is.... well... pretty common these days.

Extremely common around these parts...

[Alek Ituin]

Kaeb Odellas, on 17 October 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Canon loadouts were built around a tabletop system where mechs weren't supposed to be balanced in terms of battlefield capability.

MWO is a 1st person vehicular combat game. It needs to focus first on being a good video game. Lore is important, but should come secondary to making a game that actually works. If a lore-friendly solution to a problem can be found, then great! If not, then you need to kick lore to the curb and ensure your game actually works.

Kick lore to the curb and you end up with a cheap HAWKEN clone.

BT and MW are already good functioning games, they worked in the past with 1st person iterations. The problem MWO has is in translation.


So again: Respect BT lore or don't play a BT/MW game. Without the lore, you're playing a HAWKEN clone.

EDIT: Heh, I said 1st person FPS. Much fail, such wow. Time for sleep. >_>

Edited by Alek Ituin, 17 October 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Perhaps there is an AC5 buffed HBK? I haven't checked all the quirks, but it seems one of the HBK's variants would have other ACs buffed.

[AlmightyAeng]

Lightfoot, on 17 October 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Perhaps there is an AC5 buffed HBK? I haven't checked all the quirks, but it seems one of the HBK's variants would have other ACs buffed.

We don't have them all yet. May very well be that one does Or, more likely, a Shadowhawk!

[Celthora]

Oogalook, on 17 October 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

If I pack my Hunchie 4G with 2xAC5, it will in a very objective sense be weaker than one equipped as the devs have decided the 'mech should be.

Dude, if you want to play buffed 2xAC5s, you should have opened a title like "Buff Blackjack with improved light ACs aswell please", because 2xlight ACs is in BJ's area of expertise. Hunchback isn't carrying that huge heavy cannonball on its shoulder in vein...

Also, one day they will release medium Hollander, maybe the mech with biggest nose, which identified with Gauss Rifle. Tell me a reason to buy it without quirk specialities. That big nose will surely make problems when hiding narrow walls, rocks, so it has to get unique advantages. If a BJ or HBK more comfortable than Hollander in gauss usage, this would mean the game is tasteless, unbalanced.

Well forget everything, i don't understand why some people want all mechs be stereotype. If you consider well, you see this will increase the customization.

Edited by Celthora, 17 October 2014 - 09:21 AM.

[Scratx]

UPDATE : Russ put up a couple more examples.

Quote

Yen Lo Wang - Tier 4 Brawler

Additional Armour (LA) +16
Additional Structure (RA) +16
AC/20 Range +20%
AC/20 Cooldown +20%
AC/20 Velocity +20%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +9%

*note I am not listing all the pre-existing movement quirks that still exist. Essentially if a mech had a pre-existing movement quirk it remains. If it had a pre-existing negative movement quirk it is likely removed.

Still have shield arm, obvious buffs to AC20 and a general buff to energy.

Quote

Some people were asking about the LB10X yesterday, well here is the quirk list of the Centurion CN9-D which comes stock with an LB10X.

Centurion CN9-D Tier 4 Brawler

Additional Armour (LA) +16
Additional Structure (RA) +16
LB-10-X Cooldown +40% *20x2
LB-10-X Velocity +20%
SRM/4 Range +20%

Am I the only one drooling at having an LB10 with about the same fire rate of an AC5?

*drooooool*


Edit: Edited out color tags because they were broken.

Edited by Scratx, 17 October 2014 - 09:23 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Lightfoot, on 17 October 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Perhaps there is an AC5 buffed HBK? I haven't checked all the quirks, but it seems one of the HBK's variants would have other ACs buffed.

There's an AC10 and Gauss variant. SHDs use AC5's so there may be buffs to those mechs on those weapons.