963 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

DocBach, on 17 October 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Just because SRM's on the Dragon don't have a buff, doesn't mean they won't still do the same thing they do now. I'm not seeing the controversy, its pretty much exactly what the people saying sized hardpoints said would fix the game without limiting customization, now they are saying quirks are too limiting.

Really I would've preferred the buffs to be more general than they are.
The problem also is, if you aren't taking advantage of a buff, you are pretty much playing the same ****** mech from before which is really what the whole advantage of quirks over sized hardpoints was supposed to be.

As for the difference between these quirks and sized hardpoints are that these quirks are implicit whereas sized hardpoints are explicit. Quirks still allow you to take those crappy builds whereas sized hardpoints may not have allowed for that.

I don't know, I could be talking out of my ass, but I really don't see these quirks as the answer everyone was looking for like they were sized hardpoints.

[Peiper]

It makes sense to me, that when a factory designs, tests, and builds a mech, that it would be optimized for a factory load out. Let's look at automobiles. You can't simply put a bigger engine in a car and expect it to work. You need a new transmission, a strengthened frame, more shock absorbers, racing wheels, an altered hood to FIT the engine, and so on. When you're done, it may still LOOK a little like the car you bought, but it's not only going to be a hanger queen, but it's NOT the car you bought. It's something else. It might even been a few hundred pounds heavier - in MWO/Battletech speak that means the mech weighs 5 tons more. It's NOT the mech you bought. A hunchback-4G with 2 machine guns, 2 large lasers, and a 350xl is NOT a hunchback anymore, even if it looks like it.

And consider the techs. The technicians who are putting in all this customization are jerry rigging a new mech together just for you. It's NOT going to be perfect. It's going to have all kinds of problems. You're LUCKY it operates at 100% efficiency. But a mech that took years to develop by an army of scientists, engineers, and techs, that has standardized repair parts, and a very specific loadout (the Hunchback 4G was DESIGNED AROUND the AC20, much like the A-10 was designed around it's cannon), well, if it operates at 120% efficiency - that MAKES SENSE. Someone else said it here in this thread: those people complaining about mech quirks are only mad because THEIR FRANKENMECH didn't get special treatment. This doesn't make YOUR mech obsolete, it just makes SOME builds better than they were. And even with the quirks, some of these mechs are still going to be crap, if that makes you whining weenies feel any better.

[Mothykins]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

So those two bright red negatives to agility under "quirk summary" are not quirks?

Huh.

I invite you to read how the red quirks are for the HIGHLANDER.

The Panel with the Jesters Stats Happens to have no red text. Gee.

See what happens when you READ?

[Bishop Steiner]

Yoseful Mallad, on 17 October 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

you know what's happening here right? Those that are complaining about the quirk system are those that want mechs to have general ballistic or laser quirks so they can STILL stick any ballistic or laser/PPC they want on their pet mech.

that is exactly it.

As I said elsewhere. Butthurt BADs in Comp Clothing QQing over not being able to get all the best bonuses for their minmaxed pet meta build.

[Mothykins]

Mercules, on 17 October 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Allow me to point you to:
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

Scroll down till you find quirks. Scroll further till you find the Catapults. Can you please tell me what is listed for quirks for the Jester? Remember, Smurfy pulls the data from the game files.

You know what, **** this, I'm asking Russ on twitter.

[Mercules]

Cavale, on 17 October 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

I invite you to read how the red quirks are for the HIGHLANDER.

The Panel with the Jesters Stats Happens to have no red text. Gee.

See what happens when you READ?

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

No follow your own advice and read.

[Khobai]

Quote

Proposed Quirks Will Kill Customization

GOOD.




Too much customization is one of the game's biggest problems. It makes it so only a small handful of mechs are top tier while the rest go unused. Less customization is a good thing.

Edited by Khobai, 17 October 2014 - 01:37 PM.

[Kensaisama]

Khobai, on 17 October 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

GOOD.

Too much customization is one of the game's biggest problems. It makes it so only a small handful of mechs are top tier while the rest go unused. Less customization is only a good thing.

LOL, now you've gone and done it, the min/maxers are getting the torches and pitchforks

Edited by Kensaisama, 17 October 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

Peiper, on 17 October 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

It makes sense to me, that when a factory designs, tests, and builds a mech, that it would be optimized for a factory load out. Let's look at automobiles. You can't simply put a bigger engine in a car and expect it to work. You need a new transmission, a strengthened frame, more shock absorbers, racing wheels, an altered hood to FIT the engine, and so on. When you're done, it may still LOOK a little like the car you bought, but it's not only going to be a hanger queen, but it's NOT the car you bought. It's something else. It might even been a few hundred pounds heavier - in MWO/Battletech speak that means the mech weighs 5 tons more. It's NOT the mech you bought. A hunchback-4G with 2 machine guns, 2 large lasers, and a 350xl is NOT a hunchback anymore, even if it looks like it.

And consider the techs. The technicians who are putting in all this customization are jerry rigging a new mech together just for you. It's NOT going to be perfect. It's going to have all kinds of problems. You're LUCKY it operates at 100% efficiency. But a mech that took years to develop by an army of scientists, engineers, and techs, that has standardized repair parts, and a very specific loadout (the Hunchback 4G was DESIGNED AROUND the AC20, much like the A-10 was designed around it's cannon), well, if it operates at 120% efficiency - that MAKES SENSE. Someone else said it here in this thread: those people complaining about mech quirks are only mad because THEIR FRANKENMECH didn't get special treatment. This doesn't make YOUR mech obsolete, it just makes SOME builds better than they were. And even with the quirks, some of these mechs are still going to be crap, if that makes you whining weenies feel any better.

thank you! This is what I have been saying all day!

[Bishop Steiner]

WM Quicksilver, on 17 October 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Really I would've preferred the buffs to be more general than they are.
The problem also is, if you aren't taking advantage of a buff, you are pretty much playing the same ****** mech from before which is really what the whole advantage of quirks over sized hardpoints was supposed to be.

As for the difference between these quirks and sized hardpoints are that these quirks are implicit whereas sized hardpoints are explicit. Quirks still allow you to take those crappy builds whereas sized hardpoints may not have allowed for that.

I don't know, I could be talking out of my ass, but I really don't see these quirks as the answer everyone was looking for like they were sized hardpoints.

I see them as a different approach to the same issue.

The failing of sized hardpoints, despite being a proponent IS that it does limit customization.

The quirks do not. You simply get varying degrees of rewards, depending on how underperforming the chassis is to begin with, for the closer you keep it to the stock role.

Since all the prize Meta Builds are tier 1 and 2 anyways, those and their meta customization will be largely in tact, and on the other mechs, one still has the full range as before. And in most cases, even without maximizing to specific weapons, most appear to be getting useful buffs.

[ManDaisy]

Meta customization everything starts looking like the meta. At least the boost to other things give an incentive for variety.

Edited by ManDaisy, 17 October 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Glythe, on 17 October 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

And there is still literally no point in owning IS mechs with these pathetic buffs if you own clan mechs.

Wrong, If you want to participate in CW as a IS pilot you will need....can you guess? IS MECHS!

You think this will just ALL OF A SUDDEN make my Griffin, Shadowhawks, Blackjacks, Firestarters, Jenners, Centurions and every other IS mech I rock Clammer worlds in any less viable? How are they pathetic at all? Please tell me, I'm generally curious as to what you think is so bad about PP FLD? Single shot AC's? Shorter burn time lasers?

If you dont want IS mechs then dont buy them....i dont even understand why this is an issue. Do you even understand WHY they are doing these in the first place? Because i assure you it ISNT to make any of them worse....lol.

This is much better then sized hardpoints....which would cut down customizations because you WOULD NOT be able to fit an AC20 on a small ballistic hardpoint. With this system you can still put it, now neg drawback just might not get the buffs the proposed loadout would get.

And im done! Obviously most here are to dense to comprehend this or just are trolling because they want vanilla warrior. I have repeated myself too many times to care for this thread anymore.

See ya on the battlefield!

Edited by DarthRevis, 17 October 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Peiper, on 17 October 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

It makes sense to me, that when a factory designs, tests, and builds a mech, that it would be optimized for a factory load out. Let's look at automobiles. You can't simply put a bigger engine in a car and expect it to work. You need a new transmission, a strengthened frame, more shock absorbers, racing wheels, an altered hood to FIT the engine, and so on. When you're done, it may still LOOK a little like the car you bought, but it's not only going to be a hanger queen, but it's NOT the car you bought. It's something else. It might even been a few hundred pounds heavier - in MWO/Battletech speak that means the mech weighs 5 tons more. It's NOT the mech you bought. A hunchback-4G with 2 machine guns, 2 large lasers, and a 350xl is NOT a hunchback anymore, even if it looks like it.

And consider the techs. The technicians who are putting in all this customization are jerry rigging a new mech together just for you. It's NOT going to be perfect. It's going to have all kinds of problems. You're LUCKY it operates at 100% efficiency. But a mech that took years to develop by an army of scientists, engineers, and techs, that has standardized repair parts, and a very specific loadout (the Hunchback 4G was DESIGNED AROUND the AC20, much like the A-10 was designed around it's cannon), well, if it operates at 120% efficiency - that MAKES SENSE. Someone else said it here in this thread: those people complaining about mech quirks are only mad because THEIR FRANKENMECH didn't get special treatment. This doesn't make YOUR mech obsolete, it just makes SOME builds better than they were. And even with the quirks, some of these mechs are still going to be crap, if that makes you whining weenies feel any better.

Woah now!!! Here comes someone trying to bring logic into our stompy space robot game! We got a live one here!!!!!


Even if I happen to agree with 100% of what you are saying.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 17 October 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[Mercules]

Khobai, on 17 October 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

GOOD.

Too much customization is one of the game's biggest problems. It makes it so only a small handful of mechs are top tier while the rest go unused.

Shouldn't his come with a Grumpy Cat picture? I feel gipped.

[Mothykins]

Mercules, on 17 October 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

No follow your own advice and read.

You are far to optimistic as I would assume only things actually listed in game as quirks are actually defined as such. I: Smurfy, just so you are aware, is NOT run by PGI, is NOT the definitive source for what is or isn't a quirk, and assuming that it IS is a very bullshit thing to do, especially if you're using it to tell someone they're wrong. IN THE GAME, MADE BY THE DEVELOPER, IT IS NOT LISTED AS A QUIRK. THIS WOULD BE INDICATIVE THAT IT IS, IN FACT, NOT A QUIRK.

[Prezimonto]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

I see them as a different approach to the same issue.

The failing of sized hardpoints, despite being a proponent IS that it does limit customization.

The quirks do not. You simply get varying degrees of rewards, depending on how underperforming the chassis is to begin with, for the closer you keep it to the stock role.

Since all the prize Meta Builds are tier 1 and 2 anyways, those and their meta customization will be largely in tact, and on the other mechs, one still has the full range as before. And in most cases, even without maximizing to specific weapons, most appear to be getting useful buffs.

Actually, I think the biggest failing of this method is that it doesn't address WHY tier 1 mechs are just better, it leaves then with, often, many more viable configurations, and in the long run they'll mostly, likely, not be displaced. I could be wrong though, I'll wait until there's data before jumping on the whine train this place loves to generate.

I think Clan mechs with negative omni-pod quirks will be better balanced in the long run.

Edited by Prezimonto, 17 October 2014 - 01:05 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cavale, on 17 October 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

You are far to optimistic as I would assume only things actually listed in game as quirks are actually defined as such. I: Smurfy, just so you are aware, is NOT run by PGI, is NOT the definitive source for what is or isn't a quirk, and assuming that it IS is a very bullshit thing to do, especially if you're using it to tell someone they're wrong. IN THE GAME, MADE BY THE DEVELOPER, IT IS NOT LISTED AS A QUIRK. THIS WOULD BE INDICATIVE THAT IT IS, IN FACT, NOT A QUIRK.

Decaf.

Right or wrong, getting way too heated and invested in this man. Tweet Russ and relax.

Prezimonto, on 17 October 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Actually, I think the biggest failing of this method is that it doesn't address WHY tier 1 mechs are just better, it leaves then with, often, many more viable configurations, and in the long run they'll mostly, likely, not be displaced. I could be wrong though, I'll wait until there's data before jumping on the whine train this place loves to generate.

I disagree.

It acknowledges that some things just aren't really changeable. Mech geometry is not realistically fixable, so what can be done with hitboxes, and hardpoint heights and such is pretty limited. Without going back to the stupidity of 400XL 7 MPL Awesome sand such, engine caps and things are gonna stay.

This is a simple and effective way to acknowledge that, and give chassis avenues to usefulness without having to change/rewrite and such the whole game.

I mean take the Dragon, short of changing it to some generic unrecognizable generic mech, how do you fix the underlying issue, the hitboxes?

[Mercules]

Peiper, on 17 October 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

You can't simply put a bigger engine in a car and expect it to work.

Well, in some cases you can, if you can get the transmission to line up. You will still have other issues. My friend had a Chevy Monza, the model that used a small V8. He crammed a 305 in there (I believe that was it) which was bigger and had a LOT more power. He would race it in the 1/4 mile and I can tell you that oversized engine would make that little car get up and go.

What he didn't ever tell people, however, was that he had to either flatbed the car to the track or pull over and turn it off for a while every 3-4 miles or it would overheat. You see, the radiator for that car was TINY and the front didn't allow for mounting a larger one, especially with the area all crammed full of engine. So he was running the stock radiator with that oversized engine with predictable results.

[Prezimonto]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

Decaf.

Right or wrong, getting way too heated and invested in this man. Tweet Russ and relax.


I disagree.

It acknowledges that some things just aren't really changeable. Mech geometry is not realistically fixable, so what can be done with hitboxes, and hardpoint heights and such is pretty limited. Without going back to the stupidity of 400XL 7 MPL Awesome sand such, engine caps and things are gonna stay.

This is a simple and effective way to acknowledge that, and give chassis avenues to usefulness without having to change/rewrite and such the whole game.

I mean take the Dragon, short of changing it to some generic unrecognizable generic mech, how do you fix the underlying issue, the hitboxes?

I think I might not have explained clearly enough.

I agree it's a good thing to have the bad chassis have quirks, but it does greatly limit their customization options to compete.

I'm suggesting that tier 1 and maybe 2 mechs should, perhaps have some negative quirks for deviating from certain builds in combination with some smaller buffs to be more focused.

Basically, this system primarily balances being bad, and doesn't address balance issues on the other end... meaning tier 1 mechs are likely to remain tier one because there's no reason to NOT keep using the best.

[Mercules]

Cavale, on 17 October 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

You are far to optimistic as I would assume only things actually listed in game as quirks are actually defined as such. I: Smurfy, just so you are aware, is NOT run by PGI, is NOT the definitive source for what is or isn't a quirk, and assuming that it IS is a very bullshit thing to do, especially if you're using it to tell someone they're wrong. IN THE GAME, MADE BY THE DEVELOPER, IT IS NOT LISTED AS A QUIRK. THIS WOULD BE INDICATIVE THAT IT IS, IN FACT, NOT A QUIRK.

Smurfy pulls all data directly from the data files. All it does is parse it. So when a new build releases smurfy automatically updates because it just repulls the game data from the file. So Smurfy listing it as a quirk makes it extremely likely that it is a quirk in the game files.