350 replies to this topic

[BerserX]

@ Falkwulf: I think CW will fix the LRM/Everyone Else issues. I am personally responsible for hating LRM'ers, but I do recognize their intrinsic value to a good team. The problem is that good teams are so rare! LRM'ers and direct fire people are constantly competing rather than working as a team to win. This tournament made me angry with LRM'ers who didn't care if they were ripping me apart (wasn't LRM-shielding, just happened to be fighting an enemy who knew how to use me as a shield), and jerk direct fire players who would rip off my Victor Dragon Slayer's right arm (WerriNess, Banshee in my lance on Canyon Network) to increase their chances of doing better than me. This tournament brought out the stupid in everyone, and the jerks from every dark corner.

I wouldn't sweat the future of LRMs. CW should fix it by forcing people to work as a team better, and facilitating role warfare.

---------------------

As far as the scoring goes, I don't see what the big issue is. The current setup won't result in a negative score, unless a player is 100% jerk/idiot and wracks up way more team damage than enemy damage and kills and assists combined! I'm sure there are better systems out there (like the 30 match idea), but I don't think there were any major issues (other than lousy and jerk players).

Marc von der Heide, on 28 October 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

Did anybody receive the reward already?

I made an earlier post about this. I hadn't gotten mine yet as of this morning.

[chipps101]

Marc von der Heide, on 28 October 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

Did anybody receive the reward already?

it usually takes 48 hours or so.

Edited by chipps101, 28 October 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

K thx. I had after the challange 3 CTD...my first total crashes....So I feared that something went wrong.

[Butane9000]

Sky Hawk, on 28 October 2014 - 04:00 AM, said:

I played mostly, with a classic-LRM-Boat in this weekend... (XL, A+, ~2000 Ammo). I had about 15 good matches... But, sure more bad ones... I saw whole teams, who didn't used the target lock in the firts 5-7 minutes of the fight (not the match!)... They lose always... I saw bigger Mechs, like the the Mikey, without CAP (1 tonne!).. Mostly an IS-ECM Lights ran around them... But, because nobody saw them in the radar... they died...

Nowdays, we have least 2-4 LRM-Boats in each team.. If no one spott or least use the target lock during the fight... that means a lose of least 1500-2000 direct-CT damage.. A team, who don't use this advantage, is just stupid... or HELO..

Before anyone call "kill steal"... don't forget, that LRMs have a 4-8 sec flying time.. So, if the CT is red.. You have enough time for an Alfa, before the LRMs reaches the target.. And if, the CT is not soft enough... Ye, if an average pilot becomes every second an LRM-volley hit, they almost don't see anything, or have time to care anything else, just to find a hideout.. For a brawler, such a target must be like a free candy.. I personally don't like stealing the kills, for me would be far enough the Assist, but, I can't call my missiles back... Normally, even, if I made the 90% of the damages, I don't care who made the Kill.. except on Challange/Event times... but, that is not my failure, it's the Challange Reward System's...

Actually the New Reward System can end the "I killed it/You stole it!" discussion forever.. It is so, easy, I don't understand, why they don't implemented it till now... The "Killer" and the "Most Damage Maker" should be become equal points! No one would cry "You stole my Kill" anymore...

I think the Challange Point System should be give rewards for EVERYBODY, who helps his/her team in ANY ways. For example, my version would be:

- Kill Blow = 20 points
- Kill Most Damage = 20 points
- Assists = 10 points
- NARC = 5 points
- TAG = 3 points
- Spott = 2 points
- ECM-counter = 1 point

- Win = 20 points
- Tie = 10 points
- Lose = 5 points

- Base Cap = 15 points
- Point Cap = 10 points
- Point Re-Cap = 5 points

- Damage = [ (Match DMG - Team DMG) / 20 ] points [ ! ]
- Resources = [ Collected Resources / 30 ] points

- Player Lives = 10 points
- Player Died = 5 points
- Team Kill = - 40 points [ can go below zero ! ]

I like those point spreads but I think some of them can and would be easily abused. I think these would be better:

Individual Stats / Skill
Killing blow - 6 points
Most damage to enemy mech before it dies - 9 points (can stack with killing blow & kill assist)
Kill Assist - 3 points
Spot assists - 1 Point for every 3 in a match (maximum 4 points per match)
Damage - 1 point for every 50 damage caused to enemies (-1 point for every 10 damage caused to allies)
Survival - 5 points (only happens if you score 150+ damage each match and survive win or lose)
Team Kill - -50 points (must do at least 10 damage to friendly before death)
Solo Kill - 15 Points (You must do 95% of the damage to an enemy mech)

Match Stats
Win - 5 Points
Lose - 1 Point
Tie - 3 Points

Game Mode Stats
Resources (Conquest) - 5 points for every 250 resources collected by your team (win or lose)
Capture Control points (Conquest) - 2 points for capture
Turn opposing control points (Conquest) - 3 points for uncapping an enemy control point

Capture base (Assault) - 9 points
Destroy enemy turrets (Assault) - 1 point per turret (win or lose)
Friendly turrets still alive at end of match (Assault) - 2 points per turret (win or lose)

Destroy enemy lance or company commanders (Skirmish) - 2 points (win or lose)
Friendly mechs alive at end of match (Skirmish) - 2 points (win or lose)
Friendly Lance & Company commanders alive at end of match (Skirmish) - 5 points (win or lose)
Lance Damage Bonus - 1 point for every 150 lance damage (rounded up)
Lance Survival Bonus - 3 points for every surviving lance member (win or lose)

Many of these bonuses are designed to be given win or lose to put more emphasis on team work even in solo matches. I also suggest putting in a maximum match limit of let's say 30 matches. That way you definitely don't have the board being littered with people who have plenty of time off and can play for most of the day. If you limit it to 30 matches at roughly 6 matches an hour you could time it to about 5 hours of playtime.

[Silas Black]

Hearing people complain about LRMs seems silly. They have so many counters: Radar Dep, Use of Cover, ECM, AMS... If you are getting caught out in the open and killed by them, the same thing would happen to you with someone effectively using a gauss. Playing all weekend with both long range direct fire and lrms, I can say the direct fire is more brutal but both are situational. Dealing with tons of team killing, friendly fire and pug sillyness makes me glad we had 4 days to get our best games counted. The one major advantage to LRMs in the tourney was not getting mauled as badly by friendly fire since you are not usually in the way. That being said, I had many many mechs I rained hell on only to have someone take the final shot. It goes both ways and you can't steal a kill, you just secure the kill. Happy hunting Mech Warriors.

[WVAnonymous]

I just want a minimum of 1 point for a loss so I can see where I am on the bottom feeder count. The no point for a loss really hurts.

[Lily from animove]

Butane9000, on 28 October 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

I like those point spreads but I think some of them can and would be easily abused. I think these would be better:

Individual Stats / Skill
Killing blow - 6 points
Most damage to enemy mech before it dies - 9 points (can stack with killing blow & kill assist)
Kill Assist - 3 points
Spot assists - 1 Point for every 3 in a match (maximum 4 points per match)
Damage - 1 point for every 50 damage caused to enemies (-1 point for every 10 damage caused to allies)
Survival - 5 points (only happens if you score 150+ damage each match and survive win or lose)
Team Kill - -50 points (must do at least 10 damage to friendly before death)
Solo Kill - 15 Points (You must do 95% of the damage to an enemy mech)

Match Stats
Win - 5 Points
Lose - 1 Point
Tie - 3 Points

Game Mode Stats
Resources (Conquest) - 5 points for every 250 resources collected by your team (win or lose)
Capture Control points (Conquest) - 2 points for capture
Turn opposing control points (Conquest) - 3 points for uncapping an enemy control point

Capture base (Assault) - 9 points
Destroy enemy turrets (Assault) - 1 point per turret (win or lose)
Friendly turrets still alive at end of match (Assault) - 2 points per turret (win or lose)

Destroy enemy lance or company commanders (Skirmish) - 2 points (win or lose)
Friendly mechs alive at end of match (Skirmish) - 2 points (win or lose)
Friendly Lance & Company commanders alive at end of match (Skirmish) - 5 points (win or lose)
Lance Damage Bonus - 1 point for every 150 lance damage (rounded up)
Lance Survival Bonus - 3 points for every surviving lance member (win or lose)

Many of these bonuses are designed to be given win or lose to put more emphasis on team work even in solo matches. I also suggest putting in a maximum match limit of let's say 30 matches. That way you definitely don't have the board being littered with people who have plenty of time off and can play for most of the day. If you limit it to 30 matches at roughly 6 matches an hour you could time it to about 5 hours of playtime.

this is now even more luck and team mamber depended than before. hope for havign soem heavies and no mediums in your lance to increase the chance they survive. I really doubt this is better than what we have now, its similar luck based. you don't even have a chance to influence most of these points. lance dommander? pure luck. the amount of people alive? needs the luck to be good in a match that is also a stomp. lance damage, WOW, I hope I drop with those Direwolfs so they can rack a laod of damage for me. Ahhh, poop, I droped with the medium lance :/ match is pointless already.

Edited by Lily from animove, 28 October 2014 - 01:56 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Xanderpeach, on 28 October 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

What Carl said+ my suggestion about scoring system

(most damage kill x 10)+(assist x 10)+(kill x 10)+((damage - team damage)/15)

This system wil elliminate kill-stealing. And yeah, this event is way too long. I spent a whole weekend on this challenge, and finished #24 in TBR ladder. Last 26 hours of this event I played smth near 150 matches, and there was ONLY!!!2!!! ranked matches. It happend because I'm doing the main work, stripping enemy 'mech, tanking, trading my armor to open enemy's CT, and then light mech or LRM boat JUST STEALING MY WORK. Current system is just does not work, and it FORCES PILOTS TO USE LRM BOATS, BECAUSE YOU CAN GET A KILL SHOT WITHOUT EXPOSING YOURSELF.



#PGIPLZFIXDISSHTNXTTIME

Also narc and tag should not be rewarded. Because in this case we will face atlases with NARC and TAG

in that challange it will eb all about lrms, and lets not forget to put off artemis to make more spread damage. t wll not relate to efficient killing. And when people are outnumbered, they will get stripped for the damage gathering instead of shot for the kills. Which also again favours C 5 heavy builds because they run cool and sustain the best dps due to not havign heat trouble.

You won't make a perfect sytsem people will not try to optimise, but maybe we can say, a kill is worth only 15, so that it makes a difference but yet not a very big one.

[Alienized]

dragon does not need a buff.
just optimized quirks.
whole lot of fantastic battles and carried almost all of them.
because my TEAM played well. gave me the chance to play the dragon at its best role.
it truly cant save bad teams. not its job. but thats not the mechs fault.
assaults took damage when it was needed, gave us flankers/harrassers the chance to hit the attackers hard where it hurts them but sprintet between everything to take some shots and give the assaults some time to fall back.
should have done a video from last epic battle... almost perfection.

[lazypc]

I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed this event, holding 1st so long was amazing, then after getting knocked down to third Monday morning made me clear my afternoon after work to make one final push to reclaim top spot, didn't happen but enjoyed it none the less.

I was a little surprised to see that the scoring didn't use any of the metrics added by Rewards 2.0, but since that is still new perhaps in future challenges it will.

I suppose this does bring out the selfishness in people, I know I found myself pushing too hard more often then not trying to have a good round. Just to find myself overextended and my armor paying the price.

[Alienized]

lazypc, on 28 October 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed this event, holding 1st so long was amazing, then after getting knocked down to third Monday morning made me clear my afternoon after work to make one final push to reclaim top spot, didn't happen but enjoyed it none the less.

I was a little surprised to see that the scoring didn't use any of the metrics added by Rewards 2.0, but since that is still new perhaps in future challenges it will.

I suppose this does bring out the selfishness in people, I know I found myself pushing too hard more often then not trying to have a good round. Just to find myself overextended and my armor paying the price.

thats what armor is for. getting shot away. if you dont take shots you do something wrong. it needs to be used as a weapon with ammo. use it until its depleted. thats how fights are won.

[Deadsmiley]

RiceCop, on 26 October 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

Yeah... not liking the format of this. I tried it out tonight and it seems like everyone is cherry picking everyone else's kills. I had a few games where I did over 700 damage and cored out several mechs, only to have someone cherry pick the kills from me. 700+ damage and 0 kills. As stated above, people are jumping in front of me to block my shots so they can take the kill.

No thanks.

I have no problem shooting people in the back if they step in front of me.

[Sergei Pavlov]

Marc von der Heide, on 28 October 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

Did anybody receive the reward already?

No, I didn't.

[Vervuel]

Deadsmiley, on 28 October 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

I have no problem shooting people in the back if they step in front of me.

Same here, especially since I was running either brawler Timberwolf or MLas/Gauss Timberwolf. Step in front of me to steal kill, lose an arm or torso lol.

I ended up 7th in the Timby's, and basically just played the way I normally do- support team, cover slow assaults, target enemy for info gathering, I mean it wasn't that hard to climb the leaderboards plating as a TEAM member. The only times I had to play selfishly were when my team left me out to dry, or I got narced/roughed up at the beginning and had open torso armor. Then I had to play smart in order to still provide service for the team, but not die immediately. i figured if I could just take shots of opportunity, not to kill steal but to turn an enemy, distract, etc., then it was worth maybe playing a bit cowardly. otherwise, IF I had armor, played aggressively

[Vimeous]

chipps101, on 28 October 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

...
total match score of 1223
4th in the adders
tournament score of 1999

did anyone else keep track of their match scores during this tournament and wish to compare their data as to how their match score is compared to their tournament score ?

For once I did (after a screenshot recount):

total 10 match score of 1331
14th in Awesome
tournament score of 2026

Of the 10 matches that counted towards the tourney 8 remained valid based on match scores. The balance of scoring is similar with the exception that great loosing games reflect the effort expended.
This would reduce the number of games needed to hit the better scores as it essentially bypasses the matchmakers desire for 1W:1L.
Is that something we want - to bypass the MM for tournament scoring making them more solo focussed?
Encouraging players to work with, or at least 'use' their team to get vital win points is surely the better option? Granted that may be a little too subtle for some.

[a gaijin]

It would be nice if there was a "total pilots" number for each chassis so we could see exactly where we rank in the totality of it all for those who participated.

[JakeEDogge]

Well here's a challenge that goes in the must miss category.....

[Draven Darkshadow]

keep in mind that the more friendly damage you do the less points you get... so if you shoot friendlies to get at the enemy not only you are wasting heat and/or ammo the more likelihood of your survival decreases more as you overheat or expand your ammo on friendly forces

[Catho Sharn]

Silas Black Warrior, on 28 October 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

That being said, I had many many mechs I rained hell on only to have someone take the final shot. It goes both ways and you can't steal a kill, you just secure the kill. Happy hunting Mech Warriors.

The idea of kill stealing with LRMs is kind of silly. LRM lock and flight time, not to mention ease of dodging / countering, mean most LRM kills are a matter of luck or pounding the **** out of some poor schmuck caught in the open.

[Saobh]

HeroForHire, on 28 October 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

It would be nice if there was a "total pilots" number for each chassis so we could see exactly where we rank in the totality of it all for those who participated.

Well we could kind of guess it by posting our lowest score chassis. Here are mine :
- Firestarter : 402 (106 points)
- Jenner : 451 (86 points)
- Shadowhawk : 477 (87 points)
- Stalker : 403 (131 points)

not a low enough score to get an idea of the number of people participating but was surprised of this one :
- Stormcrow : 773 (632 points)

So it seems some chassis got a lot more love then others indeed.