724 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

I average 180k a match.

No premium time but what ive won from events, never spent any money on the game. Ever.

1700 matches over a year is, at say, 6 minutes a match...thats 170 hours of game time.

Thats half what I put into skyrim over the same time period, and I have access to pretty much everything the game offers, that is reasonable (its not like im collecting iron daggers, or commandos you know) though most of it id have to sell something, buy the old thing again, outfit it etc.

But ive got all the relevant engines, weapons, modules, skills, chassis, etc.

Ive got a buddy whose been playing WoW for like 8 years now, and still hasnt seen everything there is to see.

MWO is small. The grind is small. AND its not pay to win.

Freecake is great.

So 170 hours, for 310 million cbills.

If you add up all the mechs costs, minus clan (they do nothing for me) ive pretty much, in a AAA titles game life (200 hours) gotten the cbills to afford everything there is.

Im just wasteful, never bought mechbays, and sell/rebuy alot, since you dont lose your xp on mechs.

Edited by KraftySOT, 26 October 2014 - 11:54 AM.

[KraftySOT]

And if 170 hours for 310 million cbills is too much for you.

Theres the door bro.

Im sure PGI is not exactly happy I achieved this for free.

[redacted]


I didnt say it.

I lol'd and nodded.

But I didnt say it.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 26 October 2014 - 02:33 PM.
Unconstructive quote

[Scratx]

KraftySOT, on 26 October 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

See maybe its perspective too.

The Eliting/Mastering, is nice, its Comp, its Meta...but its also a retardedly small bonus and two of the skills dont even work. Im not looking at the grind to get there, as a a grind. Its just playing.

*cough* Double Basics *cough*

[KraftySOT]

Scratx, on 26 October 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

*cough* Double Basics *cough*

Yeah even 3x isnt a big deal. Doubling the basics is meh. 15% heat reduction is almost nothing, together with more capacity, you net ONE extra alpha before shut down. Which is nice, im not saying it isnt, its the different between 90-110 damage in 4 seconds, and 140-160 damage in 7 seconds.

All the rest of them are pointless. Oh my arms move really fast. Thats super useful on a Wubshee, or a Jagermech...or a Raven..

Or more torso twist speed? Thats cool because I already maxed engine and it moves so fast that if it moves any faster im lowering my mouse sensitivity to maintain my long range aim.

Anchor turn? When is this useful. More accel and de accel...really useful on that Raven 3L with 2xERLL.

Competely useless on a Wubshee. When do you pop out and snipe with a 270m brawler?

Theyre pointless.

Anyone who is good can grab an unskilled Timber, Dire, Wubshee, outfit correctly, and do incredibly well. Far better than anyone in a Mastered Quickdraw or Dragon or Wolverine or Victor or Highlander.

I dont just make this **** up. Ive owned 30 or 40 mechs, mastered 6, fought with them as basic, elite, mastered, with modules, without.

My SRM shadowhawk im playing with because, half price XL engine...doesnt even have modules, or consumables mounted. My Dual Gauss jager doesnt have advanced zoom.

Why?

Its surely not hurting me any if im out cbilling you guys into the ground.

Edited by KraftySOT, 26 October 2014 - 12:04 PM.

[Solidussnake]

All I'm going to say is this. The OP is right. I don't really care what anyone thinks and I say this as a veteran player. I try over and over again to get people interested and want to play the game. But do you know what happens? They quite because the grind in this game is insane. Even more so now. When I do 800 damage in a match get 8 kills. 4 assist. And make a pathetic 180K because I didn't "flank" or I didn't spend one of my slots to put a tag on something or something else incredibly stupid. It pisses me off.

I shouldn't have to play the game the way PGI wants me to , to make any money. More so. I am interested in keeping people playing the game and coming back. And considering from what I've seen. From wins, Matches are 10min long give or take.

Now lets say I was a new player after the cadet bonus. I'd be earning around 140K a match playing like PGI wants me to because I'd have a mech I just bought, hardly customized. and having to compete with others.

We need more players. To keep this game going. Not people shouting " well if you would stop sucking" or "Learn the system".

Don't expect people who want to play alone, and just pug the game for enjoyment without interacting with people to stick around. out of 21 people I've personally tried to play the game. Who are serious PC gamers. 2 of them are still playing. Thats **** for player retention.

When I drop solo, and I constantly see the same names over and over again on a weekend? What does that say about the player base? O I just happen to see the same person in all of the same matches by "coincidence" ?

I want people to play this game. I want new players to enjoy it. I want to be able to tell my friends to come back and give it another shot. That hey you need to try to drop with people to make money. Come play and be actually rewarded and feel like you are making it somewhere.

But at 140k a match win. They are not. 6~8 matches an hour x 40 hours a week = a second job. Not a game where you have fun.

Edited by Solidussnake, 26 October 2014 - 12:08 PM.

[Deathlike]

KraftySOT, on 26 October 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

Yeah even 3x isnt a big deal. Doubling the basics is meh. 15% heat reduction is almost nothing, together with more capacity, you net ONE extra alpha before shut down. Which is nice, im not saying it isnt, its the different between 90-110 damage in 4 seconds, and 140-160 damage in 7 seconds.

I'm running a Quickdraw+Wolverine for the tourney.

The builds I run are very hot, and w/o those bonuses, it would NOT BE POSSIBLE to get where I need to go on the charts.

To say they aren't significantly is woefully inaccurate. Unless you are using a super heat efficient build like the GaussJager, it's VERY MUCH NEEDED.

People tend to not think about these efficiencies when stuff is mastered. That's the problem with the logic used here.

[KraftySOT]

See thats a bunch of BS.

Heres why:

First of all, new players have no frame of reference. There are trial mechs that while they arent great, they arent bad lately. Theres a DIREWOLF. So how is there any grind AT ALL? What are they saving for? Whats their objective? What are they trying to buy? Before theyre a veteran player, theres nothing they want, theres nothing theyre aiming for, there is no grind. There is the Diretrial.

So they want to own a mech and customize it? Now that they realize their trial mechs are bad. So now they need some cbills, now it becomes relevant.

Until theres a goal they want to go for...there IS NO GRIND AT ALL. Youre just accumulating cbills for nothing.

Until a new player actually has his sites set on owning something, they arent grinding.

Youre confusing people just not being into the game, for the grind. A new player doesnt even NEED cbills until he realizes the trial mechs are bad.

[Livewyr]

I keep seeing this:

I do so much damage and don't get no Cbills!!!!!


At some point, people are going to figure out that doing damage is no longer the ticket to a vault of cbills...it will happen at a variable rate.
Then after that, they will complain that they are not getting a vault full of Cbills for doing Rambo damage.

Nevermind the practically dead light and medium queue we used to have, because cbills were really only a product of damage. "Those guys can go to hell, I want to get cbills for just doing damage!!!"

The old rewards system was the core reason that lights and mediums were not used. Insufficient earning potential for what they are good at.


------------------------------------------
This thread has made no progress... no matter how many times one is told:
"High rewards are possible, just not the same (skewed) way you are used to."
They will continue to rant and complain and tell everyone else they are wrong "because core opinion reason!"

[KraftySOT]

Deathlike, on 26 October 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

I'm running a Quickdraw+Wolverine for the tourney.

The builds I run are very hot, and w/o those bonuses, it would NOT BE POSSIBLE to get where I need to go on the charts.

To say they aren't significantly is woefully inaccurate. Unless you are using a super heat efficient build like the GaussJager, it's VERY MUCH NEEDED.

People tend to not think about these efficiencies when stuff is mastered. That's the problem with the logic used here.

So because youre running crappy low tier mechs that are going to get Quirked up to being almost playable eventually...the modules are useful?

Uh. No. That means theyre only useful in making a subpar mech, slightly less subpar. It doesnt change the fact that theres really only 5 mechs and 5 builds and if youre not in them, youre doing it wrong. You dont NEED any of those to get great payouts in Ravens, Direwolves, Timberwolves, Wubshees, DDCs...its nice. But its not even close to needed, and in a number of mechs, ontop of pin point doing nothing, and startup/shutdown doing nothing, if you dont have lower actuators arm speed does nothing, if youre not sniping the accel deaccel are pointless, anchor turn rarely means anything at all.

You can come into the game, play through the cadet bonus in arguably the best mech in the game (Direwolf) in about a week or three depending on time investment, then BUY said direwolf for your cbills, keep on making good cash because youre in a great mech, and earn enough to plop on Dakka.

No elite needed.

Welcome to the top tier of MWO players.

[SpeedingBus]

[redacted]

[redacted] last time I checked we are all making imaginary money. Please think before you post anything else out of sheer stupidity. Also even as a new players its pretty apparent the stock mechs are inferior from the get go. So new players see the grind mountain from the beginning to obtain the new chassis they want and dear god if the newbies want clan mechs.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 26 October 2014 - 02:35 PM.
Unconstructive

[SoggyGorilla]

Honestly if you don't think your making enough money there are ways to fix that. Buy a hero mech, or mechwarrior package that gives you a set of mechs with the cbill bonus mech. then activate some premium time. now you get 80% more cbills for 30$. i would hope that within a month you could buy the mechs you wanted to play with or activate another month of premium time for another 15$. that's still less than an xbox one game that starts at 60$ plus tax.

Edited by SoggyGorilla, 26 October 2014 - 12:19 PM.

[Mr Beefy]

KraftySOT, on 26 October 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

Yeah even 3x isnt a big deal. Doubling the basics is meh. 15% heat reduction is almost nothing, together with more capacity, you net ONE extra alpha before shut down. Which is nice, im not saying it isnt, its the different between 90-110 damage in 4 seconds, and 140-160 damage in 7 seconds.

All the rest of them are pointless. Oh my arms move really fast. Thats super useful on a Wubshee, or a Jagermech...or a Raven..

Or more torso twist speed? Thats cool because I already maxed engine and it moves so fast that if it moves any faster im lowering my mouse sensitivity to maintain my long range aim.

Anchor turn? When is this useful. More accel and de accel...really useful on that Raven 3L with 2xERLL.

Competely useless on a Wubshee. When do you pop out and snipe with a 270m brawler?

Theyre pointless.

Anyone who is good can grab an unskilled Timber, Dire, Wubshee, outfit correctly, and do incredibly well. Far better than anyone in a Mastered Quickdraw or Dragon or Wolverine or Victor or Highlander.

I dont just make this **** up. Ive owned 30 or 40 mechs, mastered 6, fought with them as basic, elite, mastered, with modules, without.

My SRM shadowhawk im playing with because, half price XL engine...doesnt even have modules, or consumables mounted. My Dual Gauss jager doesnt have advanced zoom.

Why?

Its surely not hurting me any if im out cbilling you guys into the ground.

ONCE again.... your first line = fail.... if you really think a 15% heat drop on your mechs, unless a straight AC build with no heat is not a MAJOR improvement in a system that hits you like a brick for energy builds.... You sir are clueless and doing it wrong!

How does one even begin to take you serious?

[KraftySOT]

Like Banshee...no arm weps, not fast enough to need anchor turn.

Arm speed is useless. Pinpoint is useless. Start/shutdown is pointless. Anchor Turn is pointless. The others are moderately useful but nothing near as useful as the heat related ones. Cool down is pointless as its just nullifying the heat advantages.

Dual Gauss Jager:

Armspeed is useless. It can only aim up and down, no lower actuators. Anchor turn is useless. Youre a sniper. Pinpoint/startupshut down still do nothing for you. Heat related skills do nothing for you. Accel and Deaccel are the only ones that matter out of 12 different "skills". Two. Two matter.

So if youre out there mastering out all your mechs going mad wth the grind....

Youre doing it wrong.

Theres no reason you should be mastering every mech other than your own personal desire to do so. The marginal gains you mech, on a per chassis basis, are far outweighed by other factors like maps, mech choice, enemy team composition, your team, the way the game goes, balance changes.

Youre good on basic in a GOOD mech.

But yeah if you want to drive a Commando...you probably want to Master it...because its crap and you need every last bit of help. Same on Wolvies, Dragons and Quickdraws.

Theyre just plain bad, so you need every ounce. A wubshee? A dakkawhale? You can run those right out of the box and annihilate people.

[Mr Beefy]

KraftySOT, on 26 October 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

So because youre running crappy low tier mechs that are going to get Quirked up to being almost playable eventually...the modules are useful?

Uh. No. That means theyre only useful in making a subpar mech, slightly less subpar. It doesnt change the fact that theres really only 5 mechs and 5 builds and if youre not in them, youre doing it wrong. You dont NEED any of those to get great payouts in Ravens, Direwolves, Timberwolves, Wubshees, DDCs...its nice. But its not even close to needed, and in a number of mechs, ontop of pin point doing nothing, and startup/shutdown doing nothing, if you dont have lower actuators arm speed does nothing, if youre not sniping the accel deaccel are pointless, anchor turn rarely means anything at all.

You can come into the game, play through the cadet bonus in arguably the best mech in the game (Direwolf) in about a week or three depending on time investment, then BUY said direwolf for your cbills, keep on making good cash because youre in a great mech, and earn enough to plop on Dakka.

No elite needed.

Welcome to the top tier of MWO players.

And to the heart of the problem PGI, if you are seeing this.... You're mindset is a big reason that this drought of C-bills and very painful grind we have will in the end tear this player base apart from the inside. Its toxic, and you thrive off exploiting it.

Well done, you win, your a winner!

[Solidussnake]

KraftySOT, on 26 October 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

See thats a bunch of BS.

Heres why:

First of all, new players have no frame of reference. There are trial mechs that while they arent great, they arent bad lately. Theres a DIREWOLF. So how is there any grind AT ALL? What are they saving for? Whats their objective? What are they trying to buy? Before theyre a veteran player, theres nothing they want, theres nothing theyre aiming for, there is no grind. There is the Diretrial.

So they want to own a mech and customize it? Now that they realize their trial mechs are bad. So now they need some cbills, now it becomes relevant.

Until theres a goal they want to go for...there IS NO GRIND AT ALL. Youre just accumulating cbills for nothing.

Until a new player actually has his sites set on owning something, they arent grinding.

Youre confusing people just not being into the game, for the grind. A new player doesnt even NEED cbills until he realizes the trial mechs are bad.

And just how long since you seem to know it all judging by your additude do you think new players figure out, "Holy **** batman I'm getting destoryed maybe I should do something about that" O wait to get a direwolf and customize it I need to put in 40 hours a week to do so at any reasonable rate for gain.

I'd image after somone puts in 20 matches or so they begin to wonder "man I'm getting owned by these customized mechs I really this trial direwolf because of x. But in order to get one... I need to play so freaking much to even be competitive and where the fun really starts , Or i can go play something else?"

Edited by Solidussnake, 26 October 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Mr Beefy, on 26 October 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

ONCE again.... your first line = fail.... if you really think a 15% heat drop on your mechs, unless a straight AC build with no heat is not a MAJOR improvement in a system that hits you like a brick for energy builds.... You sir are clueless and doing it wrong!

How does one even begin to take you serious?

Its not.

Here:

If my first alpha does 50 heat, and my second alpha does 50 heat, heat scale is 100, accounting for recycle/cooldown, I have two alpha strikes.

If I get 15% less heat, I made 7.5 heat less a strike.

Thats 42.5, and 42.5. If I fire one more alpha, I shut down and damage myself.

I got no benefit at all from the 15% better heat management. It improved nothing.

Now if youre doing 40 heat, and 40 heat, and then you get 15% off, you go from having two alpha strikes available to three.

Its entirely dependent on the loadout, if that skill is worth anything, and its not a matter of being acs or gauss. It can be laser vomit too.

Mr Beefy, on 26 October 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

And to the heart of the problem PGI, if you are seeing this.... You're mindset is a big reason that this drought of C-bills and very painful grind we have will in the end tear this player base apart from the inside. Its toxic, and you thrive off exploiting it.

Well done, you win, your a winner!

No I dont, I just do what the game requires so that I can have a good time playing it.

Solidussnake, on 26 October 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

And just how long since you seem to know it all judging by your additude do you think new players figure out, "Holy **** batman I'm getting destoryed maybe I should do something about that" O wait to get a direwolf and customize it I need to put in 40 hours a week to do so at any reasonable rate for gain.

I'd image after somone puts in 20 matches or so they begin to wonder "man I'm getting owned by these customized mechs I really this trial direwolf because of x. But in order to get one... I need to play so freaking much to even be competitive and where the fun really starts , Or i can go play something else?"

You can get your whale in 33 hours with 140k cbill average. Check Vassago's post, he does all the math.

It doesnt take 40 hours a week. It takes, once you figure out what youre doing, even if youre dead broke, 5 hours a weekend, for a month. To get the best mech in the game.

Boo hoo.

Ask people in other F2P games how long it takes get the BEST thing in the game.

How about in EVE? How long till you can free to play your way to a Battleship? Eh?

Then you dont even have a tier system really, so your Direwolf gets to go up against Locusts, Quickdraws, Wolverines, and tons of things that are wildly inferior to it, so you can run around noobing people to death for free, just a minor time investment.

If you put the same time into this game as people put into the army reserve (TWO WEEKEND A MONTH) youll eventually, over the course of about 2 years...get enough cbills to have everything the game offers currently.

This is faaaaaaar faster than getting to all the content in WoT, which is actually impossible, or Warthunder, EVE, WoW...you name it.

The only thing faster is smaller single player games.

Edited by KraftySOT, 26 October 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[Deathlike]

KraftySOT, on 26 October 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

So because youre running crappy low tier mechs that are going to get Quirked up to being almost playable eventually...the modules are useful?

I'm only running them because it's actually brutal in the really serious brackets (Stormcrow, Timberwolf, Dire Wolf to name a few).

Yes, yes, those modules ARE useful (plus they are mastered to boot, because I need that slot for the 2nd mech module (if you can't figure out what mech modules are in use, then... you're playing a very different game than I am.

Quote

Uh. No. That means theyre only useful in making a subpar mech, slightly less subpar. It doesnt change the fact that theres really only 5 mechs and 5 builds and if youre not in them, youre doing it wrong. You dont NEED any of those to get great payouts in Ravens, Direwolves, Timberwolves, Wubshees, DDCs...its nice. But its not even close to needed, and in a number of mechs, ontop of pin point doing nothing, and startup/shutdown doing nothing, if you dont have lower actuators arm speed does nothing, if youre not sniping the accel deaccel are pointless, anchor turn rarely means anything at all.

Um.... you are certainly not playing the game that I'm describing. If you had any clue what it looks like at the higher levels of play (and I don't really scratch the real surface of that), then you are not understanding the important minutia that the average or new player does not see or notice.

Quote

You can come into the game, play through the cadet bonus in arguably the best mech in the game (Direwolf) in about a week or three depending on time investment, then BUY said direwolf for your cbills, keep on making good cash because youre in a great mech, and earn enough to plop on Dakka.

You can't do 1 in a week, unless you have no life (lots of free time), have premium and hero.

I wish people actually do the math on how long it takes to get $1m w/o premium time. It takes me 2 hours at best on any given day. On the $17m cost, the ETA for me would be close to 3+ weeks (more like 3.5 weeks to a month).

I don't think that's what you call "a week".

Quote

No elite needed.

Elite is needed... especially if your opponents have that edge (in many cases, they do, unless you're not playing against the best).

Quote

Welcome to the top tier of MWO players.

That's assuming you've won something...

Edited by Deathlike, 26 October 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[KraftySOT]

And of course you can always pay.

[Solidussnake]

KraftySOT, on 26 October 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

You can get your whale in 33 hours with 140k cbill average. Check Vassago's post, he does all the math.

It doesnt take 40 hours a week. It takes, once you figure out what youre doing, even if youre dead broke, 5 hours a weekend, for a month.

Boo hoo.

And this is why your post are irrelevant, you feel for yourself that the earnings per match are "fine" as they are. Because its not going to take 33 hours to buy one. Sure 33 hours of straight wins. So now lets go ahead and say you make 70k when you lose because your team gets aced? suddenly 33 hours becomes 45+ And lets not even begin to talk about customizing that mech. Which becomes a month and a half. 2? Maybe longer?

You expect all the people attempting to join our community to just get over it?

We need new players to keep this game alive and thriving. Not people who play for a month and say screw it. Why am I going to play a game for an entire month to get 1 mech.

You can't expect new players to get over it and become top tier players in a month before they they realize there is more fun to be had with less grind in more games.

Did you not see where post where to customize that wolf takes alot more then 33 hours? It takes 33 to buy one. And what another 10 hours to be able to customize it.

Edited by Solidussnake, 26 October 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Deathlike, on 26 October 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

I'm only running them because it's actually brutal in the really serious brackets (Stormcrow, Timberwolf, Dire Wolf to name a few).

Yes, yes, those modules ARE useful (plus they are mastered to boot, because I need that slot for the 2nd mech module (if you can't figure out what mech modules are in use, then... you're playing a very different game than I am.




Um.... you are certainly not playing the game that I'm describing. If you had any clue what it looks like at the higher levels of play (and I don't really scratch the real surface of that), then you are not understanding the important minutia that the average or new player does not see or notice.




You can't do 1 in a week, unless you have no life (lots of free time), have premium and hero.

I wish people actually do the math on how long it takes to get $1m w/o premium time. It takes me 2 hours at best on any given day. On the $17 cost, the ETA for me would be close to 3+ weeks (more like 3.5 weeks to a month).

I don't think that's what you call "a week".



Elite is needed... especially if your opponents have that edge (in many cases, they do, unless you're not playing against the best).



That's assuming you've won something...

It really isnt an edge. A few % is meaningless. Even more meaningless on a vast array of chassis.

50% heat efficiency would make a difference. 15% doesnt 9 times out of 10, and the rest of the skills are purely up to your mech choice. As said. No lower actuator in your arms? No arm mounted weapons? Then whats the point of arm speed.

More torso twist? I love people who twist all the way around so I get more flanking shots and back hits. People throwing their torsos around like mad to splash damage? Theyre reaccquiring me while im dakka'ing them. They fire far less often than their cooldown because theyre busy trying to absorb damage instead of kill me.

Theres alot of people in this game, who think they know what theyre doing, and they dont. I love seeing the maniacs torso twisting to "splash damage".

Dude your CT is as big as a house no matter what you drive. If I cant hit that at close range I need to just stop playing MWO. You twisting all over the place just makes me laugh and makes it so I exit the fight with more armor than I would had you just blasted at me while I cored you.

I love stalkers, dires, timbys, shadowhawks, hunchbacks, and ravens that torso twist rather than shoot back to avoid damage.

Those guys are bad.

Solidussnake, on 26 October 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

And this is why your post are irrelevant, you feel for yourself that the earnings per match are "fine" as they are. Because its not going to take 33 hours to buy one. Sure 33 hours of straight wins. So now lets go ahead and say you make 70k when you lose because your team gets aced? suddenly 33 hours becomes 45+ And lets not even begin to talk about customizing that mech. Which becomes a month and a half. 2? Maybe longer?

You expect all the people attempting to join our community to just get over it?

We need new players to keep this game alive and thriving. Not people who play for a month and say screw it. Why am I going to play a game for an entire month to get 1 mech.

You can't expect new players to get over it and become top tier players in a month before they they realize there is more fun to be had with less grind in more games.

Thats why I said average.

I make 400k in my Raven.

I make 100k in my Shadowhawk.

I make about 180 in my Banshee.

Ill make 17 million cbills by the middle of the week if im trying. Ill just narc/tag for three days straight.