637 replies to this topic

[Bobzilla]

I think they need to do something for when you are brawling. Usually it's fine, but if you enter a brawl and the enemy team has a LRM boat, you just added another enemy shooting you with smoke/shake that you can't out position.

Be cool if LRMs unarmed if within a certain range of a friendly unit.

[Joseph Mallan]

King Arthur IV, on 10 March 2015 - 05:31 AM, said:

its a clan mech.... probably take me half a year just to grind out one.

Standard Engine Mech (not Omni)... May not be TOO expensive.

[Bloodright58]

Once again, you all missed the point. Your topic accuracy needs to be Recalibrated. The issue at hand is not one mech, but almost two full lances of heavies and assaults (clan and IS) loaded to the gills with LRMs. No one is able to move without insta-lock being placed on them as soon as they poke a foot/hand from cover. In some cases, they are still without LOS, and getting targeted.

Yes, I understand that I need a faster mech, and radar derp, and ECM. But, I find that playing in a public group that this is REQUIRED, just to have fun. Next time I face this, I will make a video to show the issue at hand.

Edited by Bloodright58, 10 March 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Bloodright58, on 10 March 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

Once again, you all missed the point. Your topic accuracy needs to be Recalibrated. The issue at hand is not one mech, but almost two full lances of heavies and assaults (clan and IS) loaded to the gills with LRMs. No one is able to move without insta-lock being placed on them as soon as they poke a foot/hand from cover. In some cases, they are still without LOS, and getting targeted.

Yes, I understand that I need a faster mech, and radar derp, and ECM. But, I find that playing in a public group that this is REQUIRED, just to have fun. Next time I face this, I will make a video to show the issue at hand.

I sure wish I was finding these teams to go against, and hope like hell my team doesn't have that much Bad.


So many free kills!

[Wolfwood592]

LOL russ is like every other nerd who cant hide behind cover, use ECM or AMS.


this made me lol for a while. I can't do good against it so nerf it!!!!!! Epitomizes the player base actually.

[Lynx7725]

Well, in case anyone contributing here needs this...

In the case of the "8 LRM boats from hell" team -- having that many LRM boats firing against you can be tough, but that is also a team weakness. There are ways to exploit that.

[orcrist86]

[Bloodright58]

orcrist86, on 10 March 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

what would be the difference if i use this thread or start a new one.. the issue would be the same...

[Scurry]

First step to take if you are getting pummeled by LRMs and no enemies have LOS -

Look up. Chances are that there's a UAV around.

Or switch to heat visuals and look for ECM scouts.

Edit: And to counter a team cooperating and focusing LRM fire, what you need to do is cooperate as well. Search for fire angles close to hard cover, or get all fast mechs to charge into close quarters and distract them from the slower mechs bringing up the rear. 8 LRM-focused builds out of 12 on a team is extremely vulnerable to a cooperating push. ECM Mechs should manage ranges to avoid getting countered.

Your statements are slightly confusing. Are you talking about the group public queue or the solo public queue? If team, well, difficult to argue with teamwork.

If solo, again, do your best to coordinate and push. They are beatable. If your team has ECM superiority, long range is fine as long as team members stay under the umbrella. If not, your best bet is a fast, aggressive stance. I've played several matches where the opposing team was fairly LRM-heavy. Best results came from flanking and aggression. If my team wanted to hide-and-peek, we lost. Pretty straightforward.

Edited by Scurry, 10 March 2015 - 07:22 AM.

[Bloodright58]

Scurry, on 10 March 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

First step to take if you are getting pummeled by LRMs and no enemies have LOS -

Look up. Chances are that there's a UAV around.

yup, did that.. but once again, i can type here till my fingers fall off, but once i meet this group on the field of battle, i will record what is being seen. i have no issues with any other units, nor missleboats in general. but this one unit and their cheap tactics is quite disturbing.

[Metus regem]

Mcgral18, on 10 March 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

I sure wish I was finding these teams to go against, and hope like hell my team doesn't have that much Bad.


So many free kills!

So much truth to this post, if they are packing that many LRM's, learn to use the map, bring ECM or load up on AMS (Even more so against Clan LRM's) and go have a bunch of free kills.

[SmoothCriminal]

Bloodright58, on 10 March 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

Once again, you all missed the point. Your topic accuracy needs to be Recalibrated. The issue at hand is not one mech, but almost two full lances of heavies and assaults (clan and IS) loaded to the gills with LRMs. No one is able to move without insta-lock being placed on them as soon as they poke a foot/hand from cover. In some cases, they are still without LOS, and getting targeted.

Yes, I understand that I need a faster mech, and radar derp, and ECM. But, I find that playing in a public group that this is REQUIRED, just to have fun. Next time I face this, I will make a video to show the issue at hand.

The key weakness with missiles is delay. So what if they have an instalock - you've punched [40] points worth of damage into their centre torso and all their missiles are hitting the rock you are cowering behind. If you have no rock... then I'm sorry to say you deserve to get pounded by the lurms.

[InspectorG]

Kilo 40, on 27 October 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

I just have to laugh...

"Hey guys! Good news! We just made team work earn you more c-bills! TAG and NARC now give more earnings and XP, just like you wanted!!!"

couple days later

"whoa..what's up with all the LRMs? looks like they need a nerf or something..."

Im sure we will see an anti-teamwork quirk here on some chassis...

[Gryphon187]

Ok. Here is my rant.

I can "sort of" understand your complaint. When I see a Catapult, Stalker, or Timberwolf, unload hundreds of LRMs at a target, I feel sorry for the guy on the receiving end.

That being said, I drive a medium Battlemech. I have a LIMITED amount of missiles. I use them sparingly and as effectively as I can.

Therefore, I am beginning to become insulted by all the comments that state that it does not take any skill to use LRMs. When I target a 'mech, I have to: A ) determine the range to target. If it is not in range, I hold fire. B ) I need to determine if the target has available cover nearby, or is it under cover already. Am I going to waste my missiles by firing at the target? C ) Can I keep target lock? It can take up to 8 seconds for LRMs to travel about 1000 meters to the target. Many times I have had to break lock because I am taking fire and I need to move. When target lock is broken, the missiles go rogue. I have to assess all this information within a couple of seconds before I decide wheather-or-not to fire. So yes, there IS SKILL INVOLVED in using LRMs.

As for the complaints of LRM Battlemechs "stealing kills" , it goes both ways. There are times when I have used over 100 LRMs to attack a target. I am watching his damage percent get lower and lower. And just wen the target is about to be destroyed, along comes a guy in a Locust who uses a small laser to finish him off. I don't mind because 1) I consider myself a team player. If I can contribute to the team win, great. and 2) there are times when a laserboat gets an enemy "mech weakened and my missiles finish off the target. It all comes out in the wash.

There are several defences against LRMs: ECM, AMS, available cover, speed, and turning / twisting to spread damage. Battlemechs have use of one or more of these. If you can't use these things effectively, or don't want to equip your 'mech with the needed items, you have no reason to complain about being pounded by LRMs. You made yourself an easy target.

Additionally, if you don't like being pounded by LRMs? Then get within 170 meters. LRMs don't arm until after that. Numerous times I have been killed because someone has got under the minimum range, thereby depriving me of my most effective weapons. (I have since had to modify my 'mech to deal with this situation).

I will close by stating that LRMs are a part of the game. They work just fine. It is up to you to deal with them. No LRM nerfing is needed.

Edited by Gryphon187, 10 March 2015 - 10:08 AM.

[Apnu]

Kilo 40, on 27 October 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

From Russ's twitter...

"So anyone else getting pounded by LRM's?"

"I like them having their place but I wish there was maybe 10% less LRM's per match"

Wow.

No other weapon system as as may limits and counters as LRMs. Lock on time, Line-of-sight, ECM, slowest travel time, terrain, target locks, AMS, specific modules to lessen target locks, mech speed and movement, imprecise hit location.

Sheesh. Yes there is tech to help, Artemis, TAG, BAP, modules, but there are more counters than perks.

Also, thanks for the thread necromancy, whomever dug this thing up from 2014.

Edited by Apnu, 10 March 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Lynx7725]

Gryphon187, on 10 March 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

Therefore, I am beginning to become insulted by all the comments that state that it does not take any skill to use LRMs.

Actually, I have a theory. LRMs is like Maths. 1+1 is easy. Calculus isn't easy (for me at least).

Pulling the trigger after waiting for a lock is easy. Juggling Time-on-Target, missile arc computation in 3 dimensions, ammo consumption rates, probability, optimum arc of fire and position, and other stuff... isn't.

It's just not for everyone, and few people really want to think maths when shooting big stompy robot. Takes the romance out of this when you have to go down a mental checklist to clinically dispose of another Rambo.

[Dimento Graven]

Apnu, on 10 March 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

...

Wow.

No other weapon system as as may limits and counters as LRMs. Lock on time, Line-of-sight, ECM, slowest travel time, terrain, target locks, AMS, specific modules to lessen target locks, mech speed and movement, imprecise hit location.

Sheesh. Yes there is tech to help, Artemis, TAG, BAP, modules, but there are more counters than perks.

...

YOU my friend, SERIOUSLY need to learn how to count...

Tech to help "counter" missiles:
AMS - It can be helpful but for the most part it's very limited, doesn't completely shield you from missiles, even with the range/speed modules attached.
ECM - Again, helpful but again something that's limited to a select few chassis and can be countered with enemy ECM, disrupted with TAG and BAP, and UAV (talking just the tech now, we're not even talking about PPC fire disruption)
Radar Dep - Yep, works good as long as you can find cover out of sight of ALL enemies AND the missiles are launched far enough away to allow you to get to that cover, but, it does work very well.

That's pretty much it when it comes to "tech to help" counter missiles.

So when it comes to that, we've got what? About 5 pieces of tech to help counter missile effectiveness.

So what do we have available to help 'enhance' missile effectiveness?
UAV
NARC
TAG
BAP
Artemis
LRM Range
LRM Cool down
360 target retention (Debatable)
Adv. Sensor Range

So there's at least EIGHT techs that can be added to a 'mech to ENHANCE missile effectiveness.

8 > 5, forever.

[RoboPatton]

I'm back after a long hiatus. I remember when LRM boats rekt face. It's nowhere near that now, LRM boats should have a place imo. If something is over the top now, it's "laser vomit" directly to CT.

[Greenjulius]

The truth is, if you're constantly (ie; 50% or more of your deaths) getting killed by LRMs, you're a bad player, and need to learn how to counter LRMs.

Direct Counters:

1.) AMS
2.) Radar Deprivation
3.) ECM
4.) AMS modules

Indirect Counters:

1.) Terrain / Buildings
2.) Teammates with AMS/ECM (hint: Stay close to your team!)
3.) Avoid Line of Sight to LRM boats - Don't sit in the open!

LRMs are the most counterable weapon in the game. Period. They don't need nerfed. I don't even use them because there is too much ECM in the game with Hellbringers going for c-bills. In my ELO range, EVERYBODY has Radar Deprivation, making LRMs a waste of time. I maybe die to LRMs once every 75-100 matches, and that's when I'm the last guy trying to fight on my heels.

Edited by Greenjulius, 10 March 2015 - 10:51 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

We will never agree on this...

Gryphon187, on 10 March 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

...

That being said, I drive a medium Battlemech. I have a LIMITED amount of missiles. I use them sparingly and as effectively as I can.

Therefore, I am beginning to become insulted by all the comments that state that it does not take any skill to use LRMs. When I target a 'mech, I have to:

A ) determine the range to target. If it is not in range, I hold fire.

Wow, so much 'skill' required to look at your HUD and read a number, then do maths, is x > 1000m (or whatever enhanced LRM range your loadout happens to have)? But seriously maybe the tiniest bit of skill required here, as I do see a LOT of people NOT check range when they fire their missiles. Either firing to far or to close (for IS load outs). So this is the tiniest modicum of skill here.

Quote

B ) I need to determine if the target has available cover nearby, or is it under cover already. Am I going to waste my missiles by firing at the target?

"Can I see the target, or does it look like it's near something?" Another "skill", eh?

LOL!

Though seriously, again, a LOT people tend not to practice this.

Quote

C ) Can I keep target lock? It can take up to 8 seconds for LRMs to travel about 1000 meters to the target. Many times I have had to break lock because I am taking fire and I need to move. When target lock is broken, the missiles go rogue. I have to assess all this information within a couple of seconds before I decide wheather-or-not to fire. So yes, there IS SKILL INVOLVED in using LRMs.

Gee, is there a UAV up, or are there more friendlies near him that may keep the target in their view? That does require a bit of thought, I'll grant you... Not a lot, but definitely more than I've seen people utilize on average.

Quote

There are several defences against LRMs: ECM, AMS, available cover, speed, and turning / twisting to spread damage. Battlemechs have use of one or more of these. If you can't use these things effectively, or don't want to equip your 'mech with the needed items, you have no reason to complain about being pounded by LRMs. You made yourself an easy target.

But there's so many more techs available to enhance missile effectiveness, so a proper missile load out can still fairly easily overcome most 'reasonably' designed 'mechs.

Quote

Additionally, if you don't like being pounded by LRMs? Then get within 170 meters. LRMs don't arm until after that. Numerous times I have been killed because someone has got under the minimum range, thereby depriving me of my most effective weapons. (I have since had to modify my 'mech to deal with this situation).

Two issues with that:

1. Clan 'mechs aren't limited by the 180 meter range limitation.
2. Getting underneath that 180 meter range limitation to start eliminating/curtailing the damage potential can be problematic, especially in some of the more 'open' maps.

Quote

I will close by stating that LRMs are a part of the game. They work just fine. It is up to you to deal with them. No LRM nerfing is needed.

I will close by stating I agree with your closing statement. FOR THE MOST PART, LRMs are fine as is.

It's typically only during challenge weekends that the explosion of LRM boats happens and starts exacerbating the LRM enhancement/LRM counter imbalances that exist in this game.

Were it not for those challenges where everyone's trying to hit EVERY 'mech to try and score 'points' for the freebies, we'd probably not have as many as these types of posts...