637 replies to this topic

[Widowmaker1981]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 October 2014 - 04:06 AM, said:

How about balanced so people with bad systems have a chance? The only way I could play the game with ANY measure of success on my old laptop was by bringing an Archer({F}Atlas). 4-12 FpS makes this game almost impossible to direct fire. Second, any attacking force should have a good compliment of indirect fire, to soften enemies at range and add extra pain while I brawl. I love seeing "Have Missiles, hold Locks." Cause I know i have a chance of having 3-25 tons of extra weapons to bring to bare on you when I am pumping 70 point Alphas into you!

I think you are confusing me with someone who wants LRMs nerfed. I think they need to be BUFFED. (at the very least removing the ghost heat on LRM 5s)

[Malsumis]

LRM's should have way more spread if being fired without LoS, Tag, or Narc. I like to use LRMs however I am not one of those pilots asking for others to "hold locks plz" as this gives those of us who know how to use LRMs a bad rep. If you are waiting for others to face tank damage so you can get locks you are doing it wrong. Equip a Tag laser and find a good spot to fire from. Don't be afraid to close in on targets as the closer you get the more likely all of your missiles will hit the target. Obviously you don't want to get too close but 400m-500m is a great distance for LRMs. Also, if you have Artemis and a Tag you can get VERY accurate location if you do the dirty work yourself and obtain your own targets. Always be aware of your LRM flight paths as if you position yourself right you can sneak LRMs through places an enemy might think they are safe.

One change I'd love to see changed for LRM's is the Tag laser. I think this laser should only be visible to the USER. Too often my location is given away by my Tag laser. I don't have ECM so I'm already on the enemies radar, but if I'm not being targeted I can somewhat hide. However, there is no hiding with a Tag laser.

And ECM is not a problem for LRMs if you have a Tag. GET ONE, IT IS WORTH IT! Just would be much better if I could Tag a mech covered by ECM with a Tag laser that was only visible to me. This need to be done!

[Bigbacon]

I don't find anything wrong with LRMs.

the can be OP like anything else in the right hands and/or with the right teamwork.

I have no problem getting away in even slowish mech and anything else if you get caught in the wide open then it is your own fault.


AND now i'll probably lose another very fun mech build and HERO mech because of this. Already lost my ember when they nerf'd the AC5 and now I suspect my Goldenboy will suffer the same fate.

I am also an offensive LRM boat user with my 2 LRM builds, giving up a missile slot for narc so I don't need to stand in the back and just push fire.

Edited by Bigbacon, 28 October 2014 - 04:12 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Widowmaker1981, on 28 October 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

I think you are confusing me with someone who wants LRMs nerfed. I think they need to be BUFFED. (at the very least removing the ghost heat on LRM 5s)

Actually no, I was commenting on you saying only BADs use LRMs. I am not a Bad so to speak, and used LRMs due to system limitations. They allow folks with low end systems to have a chance at playing the game. The players in question could be a great player but low end equipment does have an affect on in game performance.

[Bigbacon]

o0Marduk0o, on 28 October 2014 - 03:05 AM, said:

Add missile spread for indirect fire with LRM (without narc/tag)...
and add more cover on certain flat maps like Caustic Valley for the case you get narced...

and all is fine.

and +1

[Karl Streiger]

Hm - i think i will not like the change.
Currently a single LRM 15 or LRM 20 is worthless - after the nerf - if it is linear like everything in MWO - the LRM 15 or LRM 20 will be worth even less - and the only way to use LRM in a way that is not complete useless is to use MOAR LRMs.

[Widowmaker1981]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 October 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

Actually no, I was commenting on you saying only BADs use LRMs. I am not a Bad so to speak, and used LRMs due to system limitations. They allow folks with low end systems to have a chance at playing the game. The players in question could be a great player but low end equipment does have an affect on in game performance.

no i was saying only bads DIE to LRMs (with any frequency, everyone screws up occasionally)

[PhoenixFire55]

Widowmaker1981, on 28 October 2014 - 04:01 AM, said:

Ok, valid point - the fact is LRMs are good against bads, and terrible against people who know how to play. However there are a lot of bads, so LRMs work pretty well in that respect. Game shouldnt be balanced for bads though, they should die horribly till they improve.

As I seem to keep saying, our devs can't balance two identical bricks if their life depended on it.

LRMs aren't good against bads, everything is good against bads. LRMs aren't terrible against people who know how to play, because people who know how to play are very often surrounded by a vastly outnumbering bunch of bads, which makes LRMs good against them still.

The game is being balanced for bads and PGI said so many times and done things that prove it. They can not balance the game for upper tiers because they have zero comprehension of those tiers.

[The Boz]

...so, getting NARC'd on Canyon Network in an Atlas means I'm "a bad" because the map has literally two places that can shield a huge mech from an LRM volley? Ditto for Alpine Peaks, Tourmaline Desert, etc. Hell, ANY MAP is "bads" if it's Conquest mode.

[Karl Streiger]

The Boz, on 28 October 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

...so, getting NARC'd on Canyon Network in an Atlas means I'm "a bad" because the map has literally two places that can shield a huge mech from an LRM volley? Ditto for Alpine Peaks, Tourmaline Desert, etc. Hell, ANY MAP is "bads" if it's Conquest mode.

nope - you are not bad - as widow said: brown hit the fan from time to time - also get vaporized by LRMs once....and an Atlas DDC - is prime for TAGs and NARCs

"oh look - those idiots pointing at me with laser pointers..... and if you see me i see you...and now.... must be 12 LRM Mechs - i was in an Atlas and believe me everything upwards the legs was gone - from one moment to the other...."

could happen - but it should not happen often. The look into the sky should never be overwriten by "Missile Warning" you have to ignore this warning from time to time - and do your thing.
Anyhow if you are the only one not afraid of LRMs and not hunker behind cover you are screwed anyhow.

[SweetJackal]

Want to "Fix" LRMS?

1) Reduce LRM impluse (we reduced the impluse on SRMs because of chain fire anyways)
2) Instead of static density with dynamic coverage area like we have (more missiles increases the surface area covered) change it so that we have static area coverage and dynamic density. This way larger LRM volleys aren't pushing the extra missiles to the arms and beyond when hitting a mech. This makes it so that the same percentage of missiles are hitting any component no matter if it is a LRM 5 volley or a LRM 50 volley. This also makes Missile Tube Counts a much bigger balancing mechanic and counteracts the higher DPS per Ton that the smaller launchers give.

From those changes LRM targeting can then be tuned in terms of rules for indirect firing as needed.

Edited by SuckyJack, 28 October 2014 - 04:32 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Widowmaker1981, on 28 October 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

no i was saying only bads DIE to LRMs (with any frequency, everyone screws up occasionally)

Oh! Sorry haven't had my morning Caffeine yet!

o0Marduk0o, on 28 October 2014 - 03:05 AM, said:

Add missile spread for indirect fire with LRM (without narc/tag)...
and add more cover on certain flat maps like Caustic Valley for the case you get narced...

and all is fine.

Shouldn't that read Add "MORE" for indirect fire. Missiles are supposed to be spreading now right?


Off topic. Congrats on your placement in the weekend trials!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 October 2014 - 04:33 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

SuckyJack, on 28 October 2014 - 04:31 AM, said:

Want to "Fix" LRMS?

1) Reduce LRM impluse (we reduced the impluse on SRMs because of chain fire anyways)
2) Instead of static density with dynamic coverage area like we have (more missiles increases the surface area covered) change it so that we have static area coverage and dynamic density.

sounds good. we shouldn't have an impulse at all - because clawing away a ton of armor with MPLAS don't have impulse - why should a puny lrm hit like a hammer?

[Danghen Woolf]

Xetelian, on 27 October 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

LRMs on my account have a ~20% Accuracy out of 700 games (and were that accurate before reset I remember).

Anyone else feel like LRMs are fine?

I think so. My accuracy across all of them average about 30%.

I think the issue is with the new C-Bill and XP rewards system. Not that it is bad but that the TAG and NARC bonuses are encouraging using those systems which directly buff LRMs. Getting NARCed before was relatively rare, as was seeing mechs running with TAG that did not have LRMs. Now getting NARCed hurts, A LOT, and more mechs are sacrificing that one medium laser for a TAG.

[Gorgo7]

Quxudica, on 27 October 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

A simple nerf isn't going to solve the problem. LRM's have been on a constant never ending nerf buff nerf cycle since Closed Beta. I would not be surprised in the least if that single weapon system has received the most changes over the course of the game by a fair margin. The problem is inherent to their design, they need a complete rebuild from ground up for how they work. Primarily their Indirect fire capability needs to require the target be affect by either TAG or NARC, without either of those the user should have to have a LoS lock.

Yes, and if this route is followed then they should have a massive velocity buff as well, say x2 or x3 what their current speed is.

Edited by Gorgo7, 28 October 2014 - 04:39 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Boz, on 28 October 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

...so, getting NARC'd on Canyon Network in an Atlas means I'm "a bad" because the map has literally two places that can shield a huge mech from an LRM volley? Ditto for Alpine Peaks, Tourmaline Desert, etc. Hell, ANY MAP is "bads" if it's Conquest mode.

Sometimes you just have to be the Bug Boz. The enemy out played you for the terrain you were dropped on. It is supposed to work that way.

[Solkar]

Darth Bane001, on 28 October 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

Just remove the whole game then they wont have to listen to us tell them that the game is broken anymore. It's obviously they will never fix it or have it properly balanced, the game is designed in a way that makes it impossible.

The people who say online games will never be balanced because "the game is broken" or is "poorly designed" are pretty funny.
Games are not balanced because players do not want them to be balanced and fight tooth and claw to find an advantage over the other players. We could have nothing but small lasers in the game and some player would find the "ideal" weight/weapon location/engine size to be the best small laser boat and then players would complain that engines and weapon locations were overpowered. We the player TRY constantly to work the system to gain an advantage, it is human nature. Then so many players moan and groan that the game is not balanced.

The fact that tiny little changes can make huge swings in what weapon system is "grossly over powered!" means that the game is in fact pretty balanced. It means that there is little difference between the power of different systems, it is purely how players are using them.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

LRM's are fine to a bit underpowered. Guess Russ got killed by them and wants to revisit his splatcat answer. (and I was just about to spend money on this game again, oh well)

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 28 October 2014 - 04:44 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 October 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

Shouldn't that read Add "MORE" for indirect fire. Missiles are supposed to be spreading now right?

Indeed, they spread but they all hit the target the same way as if the LRM boat itself has LoS.
I want them to do more like area damage around the actual target which would be significantly less than now.
There must be a difference in damage between direct/narc or tag supported fire and indirect fire with only hitting [R].

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 28 October 2014 - 04:48 AM.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

Meanwhile, the comp meta doesn't change and the RHoD teams yawn