637 replies to this topic

[Master Maniac]

Quxudica, on 27 October 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

A simple nerf isn't going to solve the problem. LRM's have been on a constant never ending nerf buff nerf cycle since Closed Beta. I would not be surprised in the least if that single weapon system has received the most changes over the course of the game by a fair margin. The problem is inherent to their design, they need a complete rebuild from ground up for how they work. Primarily their Indirect fire capability needs to require the target be affect by either TAG or NARC, without either of those the user should have to have a LoS lock.

Your cause is just and noble.

LRMs are sucky weapons, plain and simple. Boating is the only way to make them useful, and when boated, they require no more effort than sitting in the back and holding the left mouse button.

Using them the way they could be used canonically as one-off LRM 10 or 15 packs to "mix up" your arsenal and give you some indirect fire capability - that just doesn't happen. They're laughably weak and pathetic as backup, support, or sidearm weapons. They just don't do the damage, and they're a waste of tonnage. Your only recourse if you want to use LRMs is to stack them on en masse and rely on their crappy mechanics to do the damage. It's not a player problem, it's a weapon problem. They need to be made into GOOD weapons, with a REAL skill requirement.

LRMs should require line of sight for an individual player, unless a target is "tagged" either with a targeting laser or a narc beacon. In exchange for being more demanding to use, they should be much more powerful in general, on a per-missile basis. Non-Artemis LRMs should have a high spread factor when "piggybacking" indirect locks, while Artemis FCS missiles have a normal, non-penalty spread even when locking indirectly in order to justify their greater sacrifice in tonnage.

Edited by Master Maniac, 29 October 2014 - 04:22 PM.

[Madcap72]

I do always have to laugh about people worrying about LRM's.

Just imagine if any of the more advanced weaponry drops?


I'd love to taser people from a Catapult 2 while shooting them with advanced tactical missles.

[Master Maniac]

Madcap72, on 29 October 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

I do always have to laugh about people worrying about LRM's.

Just imagine if any of the more advanced weaponry drops?


I'd love to taser people from a Catapult 2 while shooting them with advanced tactical missles.

We're not "worrying" over LRMs. We are bringing up legitimate concerns regarding the state of LRMs as a weapon, which, at this point in time, is pretty poor.

I don't want LRMs "nerfed" or "removed." I don't hate LRMs. I just want them to be effective, decent weapons worth the tonnage and viable in mechs other than brainless boating builds. I want them to require some skill other than looking at the big red box of your choice and holding a fire button.

It's not an unreasonable request.

Edited by Master Maniac, 29 October 2014 - 04:29 PM.

[Dazzer]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

Buffs to LRMs:
-up the damage to 2.2 (IS) and 1.8 (Clan)
-increase velocity to 200ms
-flatten arc for direct fire

Nerfs to LRMs:
-halve the ROF
-require TAG or Narc for indirect fire

My beef with LRMs is the spam and the way Indirect is handled. That's pretty much it.

this +1

[InspectorG]

Vervuel, on 27 October 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

Here's how to fix it- the real problem is LRM boats acting like mobile artillery, which is not the purpose of this game. To sit behind a building just spamming LRM's while eating is kinda disgusting. So, make it 2 or 3 times normal lock time if you do not have LoS. Tag will act as a 50% modifier, decreasing non-LoS lock time by half. Narc will work as intended, making both LoS and non-LoS lock times the same. UAV's, same thing, since they are so damned easy to shoot down lol. Think this will be difficult? the Artemis system uses a similar rubric, with a buff to LoS lock time and missile spread. Just expand on this until you reach desired effect. By playing with LoS and non-LoS lock times, you can make it so that the "steering wheel underhive" cannot sit back and simply spam, they will have to advance and get a visual on an enemy mech.

I LOVE THOSE MECHS!!!
My Locust gets fat belly draggin meat-sweats after finding a lone LRM>9000 Stalker sitting in the back begging for locks.
Its a mini-Thanksgiving every several matches when my elo drops low enough.

[Kjudoon]

Master Maniac, on 29 October 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

We're not "worrying" over LRMs. We are bringing up legitimate concerns regarding the state of LRMs as a weapon, which, at this point in time, is pretty poor.

I don't want LRMs "nerfed" or "removed." I don't hate LRMs. I just want them to be effective, decent weapons worth the tonnage and viable in mechs other than brainless boating builds. I want them to require some skill other than looking at the big red box of your choice and holding a fire button.

It's not an unreasonable request.

Actually, it's very unreasonable. They require as much if not more "skill" than ACs to be effective... just a lot less twitch. Yes, you can get a lock by pointing at the square just the same way if you put your reticle in the middle of the square and click you hit something 90% of the time. That's not really skill, that's twitch reflexes honed like pavlov's dog. You don't pay attention to overhead clutter, possible flight path, whether lock will be able to be maintained, spending extra time to get lock through ECM or how much chance you will get missiles through AMS clouds. You just point and click without waiting and the only difference here is the size of the target, and it's not that big of a difference. LRMs are a totally different skill set and level of patience most brawlers do not even come close to having.

The "Recliner" syndrome is something indicative of a BAD LRM pilot, not a good one. A good pilot has a build that can compensate for matches where you have a few ECM wrecking your day with Tag and or BAP. They specialize with Artemis and work on getting those LOS shots so they can get the damage more in the CT than firing blind. They understand positioning, target prioritization, the benefits of group versus chain fire and when to use both. They don't spam missiles at every target that shows up. Many of these skills are shared between all mechwarriors because good piloting is universal.

So let's stop it with the straw man argument that LRMs are noskill, okay? That's long since been proven to be bollocks.

Edited by Kjudoon, 29 October 2014 - 06:01 PM.

[Mad Pig]

LRM's are fine.

[RalphVargr]

Unfortunately, over the last two days of play, I think LRM's have already been nerfed, stealthily. I'm not getting the damage results in the ranges that I used to get with my LRM builds. My scouting/laser/ballistic builds have done about the same as they always have.

When you unload 40 tubes, with Artemis, LOS, no obstacles, and lock, at about 500 meters, and get about 5-6 damage on a stationary target from the back, with no ECM or AMS interference, something has happened. It's about a 40% reduction in damage scored.

Brawlers, rejoice! I am reduced to sniping, or suicide runs. The rewards system is working as intended.

[Kjudoon]

There is the small possibility your elo jumped up. I have had this happen to me and drove me bonkers.

But.... I do not discount your theory at this time.

[TheLuc]

i get pounded by lrms and i thow them too, one way or the other i think they work as intended

[Ens]

to be honest...
since tag is working nicely and narc is finally very very useful....please just re-adjust the flightpath as it was before the flightpath change

cover is most of the time useless if it isn´t twice as high as your mech because of the steep flightangle


i don´t mind that lrms got faster over time and everything else.....but the flightpath is so ubereffective against cover :|



edit: or at least find the spot in between the old and the new flightpath?

Edited by Ens, 30 October 2014 - 05:53 AM.

[The Flying Gecko]

I'd much rather see an AMS buff then a LRM nerf

[DocBach]

The Flying Gecko, on 30 October 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'd much rather see an AMS buff then a LRM nerf

guess we get both -- AMS gets double ammo, LRM's get -.1 damage per missile.

[RalphVargr]

10% damage nerf on 4 NOV 2014 has been announced, for all LRM's.

Consumable: Nuclear Strike, 1,000,000 MC. Do not think for a second I would not buy one.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

LOL to they said it should be canon when almost every other weapon's damage isn't.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 30 October 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[Kjudoon]

So the damage nerf is happening. I don't know what a 0.1 reduction in damage will ultimately do, but I have little confidence the impact will be minor. I remember how much losing a miniscule amount of splash damage hurt LRMs too.

So can we get the spread cut in half or at least 25% or something since we've now nerfed them twice in two patches??? Or how about increasing the speed to 200 LIKE IT SHOULD BE!

Or the admission you're just going to make LRMs worthless for anyone to use.

[Triordinant]

The ideal solution is to make LRMs effective for direct fire, but horribad when used for indirect fire, just like in the "real" Battletech universe.

Edited by Triordinant, 30 October 2014 - 07:56 PM.

[Lightfoot]

so they got the nerf, now about that line of sight buff?

[Kjudoon]

Triordinant, on 30 October 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

The ideal solution is to make LRMs effective for direct fire, but horribad when used for indirect fire, just like in the "real" Battletech universe.

Okay, increase the speed to 350-400 and increase spread by 25% The speed increase wrecks the long game, but makes it useful for direct fire and guidance is worse. The increased spread will wreck the indirect fire yet still make them useful as an area denial weapon.

Edited by Kjudoon, 30 October 2014 - 09:53 PM.

[Dauntless Blint]

People will still get butt hurt by this weapon system because there is no reply to it if you haven't thought of one before you join the match or enter open ground.Once they fix the targeting computer's,ECM,AMS, there will still be people complaining because they got narc'd and Tag'd and the entire enemy team focus rumbled their face and there was nothing they could do,that is what you can't fix people need to get over it,they can't handle the bit where there was nothing they could do.