227 replies to this topic

[RussianWolf]

Cathy, on 05 November 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

I like it when the crap bunch of useless Noobs win with five mechs to spare.

You just have to mention it to the arm chair General don't cha !

even better when they are the only one that died.......

[Chrithu]

I have to shamefully admit that I tend to do this far too often when I am in a bad mood or playing too late at night.

Though usualy I do not blame them for my death but for lost matches. Since really lost matches are a team effort while early death is 99% your own individual fault for making bad calls often although you know better, but you still do it.

Edit: I mean seriously it sometimes is hard not to get angry when for instance the assault lance of the team pulls the whole company into the "death canyon" on Canyon Network. I mean freely handing the match over to the enemy within the first 30 seconds is just wasting everyone's wait time for the match.

Edited by Jason Parker, 05 November 2014 - 07:10 AM.

[Krivvan]

mike29tw, on 05 November 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

I'm sorry, if I find out that the team is heading into a killing box, i'm gonna jump ship first before I type "Team, fall back."

Pug 101: Never put yourself in a situation where your life is dependent on your teammate, and always be the first to jump ship when your team walks into an ambush.

The nature of solo drops is that you're often better off sticking with your team into a horrible situation than you are splitting the team and saving half of your team from the horrible situation.

Because you may have your entire team in a terrible place, but at least it's your entire team. If their team doesn't have their act together you may still pull through.

Edited by Krivvan, 05 November 2014 - 07:08 AM.

[Bront]

On a side note, I often try to stick around in PUG matches and help the team out by coordinating that way, or occasionally offering tips to players. You know, try to help break the cycle of suck.

Look, i'm not a perfect player. Heck, I generally know more than what actually happens when I play (IE, do as I say, not as I do takes over some times). I've had some Derp moments. I tend to die early because I do play aggressively, and lend my armor to my team, and in the group queue, that's often rewarded with a team win. In the solo queue... not so much.

I do try to offer help to players I'm playing with when I can. I try not to make it sound to critical either, though sometimes it's hard not to. ("LRMs don't do damage under 180m", "SRMs don't do damage at 1000m", "Your ECM would be more helpful with the rest of he group", "There's an enemy mech to your left", "Don't shoot the blue team") But if you get enough of those players on your team, at some level your team is letting you down.

And, of course, you get plenty of folks who don't read chat anyway, or in some cases, don't speak english. That makes it hard to communicate your plan. Or any plan.

[HekiDanjo]

After seeing this happen in two consecutive games, I started making this fun. As we waited at the ready screen I'd remind my team to "fight aggressively, cover your teammates and don't forget! If you die early to talk a lot of smack about the rest of us!" It pre-preemptively flipped the script so we ended up being entertained by our dead teammates and for one game the team spent the game alternatively praising one another's skills, fresh breath, good hair and stomping our enemy. Esprit de corps is a thing...who knew!?!

Here is the thing...
Yep, sometimes you are going to die in this game through no fault of your own. Occasionally it will be as a direct result of some really boneheaded moves by your team. How you react is what makes you a "noob."

Oh, not a noob in a game, it's a game FFS, who cares? It's about being a noob in life. A grown-assed person should have a little bit of perspective. It's a game; you win some, you lose some. If the game is making you angry enough to start behaving like an utter jerk to some total strangers, maybe take five and reexamine your coping skills.

[RussianWolf]

Krivvan, on 05 November 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

The nature of solo drops is that you're often better off sticking with your team into a horrible situation than you are splitting the team and saving half of your team from the horrible situation.

Because you may have your entire team in a terrible place, but at least it's your entire team. If their team doesn't have their act together you may still pull through.

Agreed.

1st rule of River City Skirmish when spawning on the low side. Cover Charlie Lance while they join the group, right (always 3 assaults in Charlie lance for some reason)?

Was on that map and situation the other night. We (several of us) announce to the team before start that we are covering Charlie while they join up. We then see that Charlie lance is ADVANCING towards KAPPA location. CRAP! Suddenly 3 of us head to join them, followed shortly by the rest of the team. We not only blunted the attacking force that was so intent on "catching" Charlie lance, but we obliterated them in a 12-3 that took place entirely in lower city shipside.

at the end someone chatted.

"That never works"

[TamCoan]

OriginalTibs, on 05 November 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

A related mystery: Why is it always the blue team that was bad and never red team was better?

In good games I'll often congratulate the enemy team if they truly were better than our team. I actually love matches where both sides play well regardless of winning or losing.

On the flip side I feel bad for the enemy team when they play very poorly. I can feel their pain when we pick them apart because they are chasing the rabbit or all huddled behind a single rock for fear of moving.

[Jody Von Jedi]

RussianWolf, on 05 November 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

Jody, let's go cave again....lol

It was EPIC. I lost half my Atlas, but it was worth it.

I came close to making the same "this is painful" comment last night on Forest Colony. I had 2 kills and 600 dmg in a QKD, if that tells you anything.

Jody

[Mothykins]

There are two times where this is valid;

• The death was caused by a teammate blocking them in, making it so they could not move out of the line of fire
  
• The death was accelerated by friendly fire stripping back armour, leg armour, etc. (This is a serious issue I've found. Start a game in a light, actually had my teammate "test fire" his weapons and put my leg into critical)

Other than that, no, you done goofed by getting splattered.

[Ghogiel]

Krivvan, on 05 November 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

The nature of solo drops is that you're often better off sticking with your team into a horrible situation than you are splitting the team and saving half of your team from the horrible situation.

Because you may have your entire team in a terrible place, but at least it's your entire team. If their team doesn't have their act together you may still pull through.

He does have a point though... I don't trust most PUGs to have my back and I won't tank damage for them unless I absolutely have to to win or some other calculated risk. eg the other player I tank for is actually a carry player or at least competent and he hasn't completely derped.

[TamCoan]

RussianWolf, on 05 November 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

Agreed.

1st rule of River City Skirmish when spawning on the low side. Cover Charlie Lance while they join the group, right (always 3 assaults in Charlie lance for some reason)?

Was on that map and situation the other night. We (several of us) announce to the team before start that we are covering Charlie while they join up. We then see that Charlie lance is ADVANCING towards KAPPA location. CRAP! Suddenly 3 of us head to join them, followed shortly by the rest of the team. We not only blunted the attacking force that was so intent on "catching" Charlie lance, but we obliterated them in a 12-3 that took place entirely in lower city shipside.

at the end someone chatted.

"That never works"

Had a similar match in Forest Colony. Our assault lance tunnel rushed against multiple calls from the team not to tunnel rush. My lance followed them in to assist so we committed 8 mechs to the push. We didn't hide at the choke point, instead pushing through under heavy enemy fire. The remaining four flanked our tunnel push and we trashed the enemy team in short order. Someone types:

"Did we actually just successfully push the tunnel? I've never seen that work before"

Edited by TamCoan, 05 November 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

DaZur, on 05 November 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

But...but...but... They were not given the opportunity to succeed because the team failed to properly support "them"!

Good players find ways to create their own success and often die trying. Even in death their efforts usually result in the ability of another teammate to succeed...

Yeah Like when I die with a Kill and 1 assist in 5 minutes and then end up with 3-4 more assists. Usually on the enemy assaults/heavies.

[DaZur]

Ghogiel, on 05 November 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

He does have a point though... I don't trust most PUGs to have my back and I won't tank damage for them unless I absolutely have to to win or some other calculated risk. eg the other player I tank for is actually a carry player or at least competent and he hasn't completely derped.

When I PUG I pretend my teammates are bots and automatically presume they will do exactly the opposite of what I need them to do...

Edited by DaZur, 05 November 2014 - 07:57 AM.

[Kensaisama]

Jason Parker, on 05 November 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

I have to shamefully admit that I tend to do this far too often when I am in a bad mood or playing too late at night.

Though usualy I do not blame them for my death but for lost matches. Since really lost matches are a team effort while early death is 99% your own individual fault for making bad calls often although you know better, but you still do it.

Edit: I mean seriously it sometimes is hard not to get angry when for instance the assault lance of the team pulls the whole company into the "death canyon" on Canyon Network. I mean freely handing the match over to the enemy within the first 30 seconds is just wasting everyone's wait time for the match.

Guilty as well, I take more breaks away from the game now, last time I played was lastnight for an hour. Now if I start having a streak of terrible games and start getting frustrated, I just log off and go burn demons in Diablo III.

[Sprouticus]

Jetfire, on 05 November 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

It goes both ways, you often have people who sit in the back trying to snipe the whole game when the right move is to push and end up with a losing game that could have easily been a win. They end up with a high match score and damage, but their refusal to use that armor for the team's sake means a loss.

Of course you also have those that run out in the middle of nowhere and yeah... they died first because they deserve it.

Then you have the teams that chase a light despite someone scouting out the entire enemy mech ball.

Then there are the teams that run off an abandon the slow assaults to die alone in the ring around the rosy.

Then there are the teams that refuse to believe you have spotted the enemy formation *because* you died and therefore must be bad and unable to relay tactical information.

IE there is all many of bad play out there. The only way to avoid it is put together a team that you know and trust.

EDIT: For comprehensiveness and venting. Players who shoot through friendlies to try to score kills, players who never press R, players who can't see enemy mechs right in front of them, players who go berserk and TK because some other team member grazed them with a laser once, players who take control of the group and rearrange lances so a 2-3 man can be together and break up two other team lances, players who can't aim, players who don't understand weapons have ranges, players who don't know about LRM or PPC min ranges, players who only alpha...

Ok, that's enough, but yeah PUG'in ain't easy.

Agree 100%. Many of my deaths in PUG play are due to my own mistakes (or sheer numbers if I am one of the last ones alive.)

But a not insignificant % of my deaths are due to teams making basic mistakes. (chasing squirrels, abandoning fatties, being passive and not moving, etc). I fully admit that may be my Elo, which again reflects upon me. But dont confuse bad aim with bad tactical ability.

Maybe next time that guy is ranting you might want to step off your high horse and look at what really happened. Did you (or others) chase the squirrel. Did you/the team sit in one spot and get picked off? Did you/the team not push when the other team was LRM heavy?

When you make some tactical mistakes, the feedback is immediate. If I go around a corner blindly and without caution and end up getting hit by 5 mechs, that teaches me something.

When you make others, the feedback is simply losing the match and it is MUCH harder to see what you personally did wrong.

Honest self evaluation is key to improvement. Is the guy ranting on comms being rational? Probably not. But he may still have a point.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

i usually respond 'so youre the cry in cryengine'

[Krivvan]

Ghogiel, on 05 November 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

He does have a point though... I don't trust most PUGs to have my back and I won't tank damage for them unless I absolutely have to to win or some other calculated risk. eg the other player I tank for is actually a carry player or at least competent and he hasn't completely derped.

True, it depends, but I'm mostly pointing out how just outnumbering your enemy no matter what generally ends up more important than anything else in solo. I do draw the line at some things like tunnel rushing on Forest Colony Snow when the enemy is all set up on comm tower or out the colony entrance.

[Monkey Lover]

CelticCross, on 05 November 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

</p>
Why is it always the "best" players that seem to die first?

Because these are the players who take a risk, who are in the front who make the game happen.Sad part about this game is camping is rewarded. Hiding behind your meat shield and living to the end.In the end they still end up dieing but somehow feel they did good because the lived the longest?

Makes me think of cda mech with 2 xr lasers. Never helping the team living to the end of the match making us all wait for the other team to kill them. In the end getting 200 damage for 14 minutes of fighting.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 05 November 2014 - 08:49 AM.

[Some Douche]

CelticCross, on 05 November 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Maybe it was a bad matchup. Maybe there were lots of newer players. Maybe stop to think before typing out profanity-laced insults. Maybe take a look in the mirror?

I'm guilty of this so I think I'll weigh in. There are a few reasons this usually ends up happening.

Either A) The player is actually bad and just wants to troll. This is by FAR the rarest occurrence.

Or B- The player isn't bad, but made a decision assuming the rest of the team was going to back him / her up. They don't, he / she dies. Blames the team. This is pretty common, and even if the rest of the team isn't "bad" they still are in this case ( most of the time ). If an assault pushes for everyone, you need to back that assault up. Not hide worrying about KDR or cool down.

Or C) The player isn't bad, but has a mech designed around teamwork (LRM boat, Ballistics mech with low power rounds designed solely to harass the enemy, Hot running laser mech best used as supplemental damage, etc) but instead of having teams that step and use THEIR mechs for their purpose (Lights not scouting, Brawlers hiding behind LRM boats, etc) the player gets left for dead..... or stuck having their mech under utilized in it's purpose by the team. This is also pretty common, and this is 100% the teams fault.

In all of these cases a player might die first and be angry about his lack of control over it, but only in the most rare of cases is said player just ignorant. 9 times out of 10 it's selfish team mates more worried about KDR that causes it.... and that's a very good reason for said player to be angry.

Maybe. Just maybe. You shouldn't log into a multiplayer team game and focus on the skill of any one person. MAYBE you should brag about how you saved an assaults ass and then you two stomped a lance an a half together. MAYBE you should brag about how to stepped up and absorbed fire so a lance of lights could run and royally screw the enemy from behind.

Maybe you should look in the mirror.

Edited by Some Douche, 05 November 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[DasaDevil]

It depends. I generally do 400-700 damage on my own, depending on the battlemech I am in and how ignored I get during the game.

It just so happens that some games I'll do like 750 damage, get 6 kills and everybody else does like.. 150 and died in the first 2 minutes.

If this happens to me in a chain (And it has) I sometimes simply apply my face to my keyboard and proceed to rage. It's hard to avoid.