373 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

They still one shot mechs which is unacceptable. At the very least they need to come down to 32 damage so they can no longer one shot mechs. Although I think 25-30 damage would be more balanced.

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 05 November 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

They still one shot mechs which is unacceptable. At the very least they need to come down to 32 damage so they can no longer one shot mechs. Although I think 25-30 damage would be more balanced.

They deal crit damage, so they could still one shot at 30. Much rarer, since they'd have to roll the crits on top of actually hitting, though.

[aniviron]

White Bear 84, on 05 November 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

Obviously yes it is situational - thinking of all those times the team forms up a deathball behind one piece of cover, trying to play peek-a-boo all the while as enemy mechs drop arty..

You dont need to spread out all over the map, but you don't need to stand right on top of your team mates either; its a 50m raduis, not that big..

Not to mention, chances are with a little bit of difference you can notice the arty smoke and avoid it... I mean really, if you are on cap, you should be able to see the smoke and avoid it - its either going on flat ground or on the drill thing..

At most only thing I would personally change is to make the recharge time slightly longer..

OP's suggestion doesn't do anything to prevent artillery from being effective against people huddled up like that. Though it tends to be my experience that teams huddled up behind one piece of cover are about to be surrounded by a larger death ball in an arc and killed anyway. The fact that the artillery comes in under five seconds is patently ridiculous- having a ten or even fifteen second period between smoke and strike would have the same effect of breaking up blobs, or halving the damage would encourage moving without completly ending the game for any lights or mediums who catch a stray shell, as well as preventing instakill headshots.

And no, the smoke isn't always visible on cap. Did you know you can place it on the very tip top of the antenna where nobody will see it unless they're intentionally looking up for UAVs/birdwatching? But the shells still land exactly on the cap point. There are all sorts of situations on maps like this where you can effectively hide the smoke and then boom, 400 easy damage, gotta inflate those tournament scores.

[SpiralFace]

El Bandito, on 05 November 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

I personally am fine with the Arty/Air Strike damage lowered to 20-30.

They already had it at this level.

Guess what.

No one used it.

Its a money sink consumable specifically meant to deter static deathballs that just camp and wait to play whack-a-mole as the enemy rounds a corner.

You NEED it to be threatening otherwise it does nothing. Don't like them? Stay mobile and you'll be lucky if one of them ever hits you without you KNOWING its going to hit you.

Stay static and camp a single location? Guess what, that's what they are SUPPOSED to be used for. Don't like it, don't camp a single location and open yourself up to shelling.

[El Bandito]

SpiralFace, on 05 November 2014 - 08:56 PM, said:

They already had it at this level.

Guess what.

No one used it.

Its a money sink consumable specifically meant to deter static deathballs that just camp and wait to play whack-a-mole as the enemy rounds a corner.

You NEED it to be threatening otherwise it does nothing. Don't like them? Stay mobile and you'll be lucky if one of them ever hits you without you KNOWING its going to hit you.

Stay static and camp a single location? Guess what, that's what they are SUPPOSED to be used for. Don't like it, don't camp a single location and open yourself up to shelling.

No. PGI had implemented the strikes at only 10 damage, before WTFBBQ buffing it by 400%. Even my proposed 20-30 damage will be two to three times more damage than what was originally implemented.

Know what you are talking about before typing it down, mate.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 November 2014 - 08:59 PM.

[Davers]

TwentyOne, on 05 November 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

You willing to back that up with proof?
If someone calls an arty at your feet you are stationary, you will be hit by at least some of the shells in an un basiced dire

Math backs me up, as moving at 48 kph is 133 meters in 10 seconds.

I keep saying 'if you are already moving' and you keep giving examples of stationary mechs. Maybe that is where we are crossing points?

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

They are really only unfair against assaults in my opinion. It can be impossible for the slower ones to do anything even if they see the smoke.

[Gyrok]

grievoussmaug, on 05 November 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

TL;DR: Nerf arty and air strikes to 15-20 damage per shot and significantly increase cost per module. these are designed to soften up targets, not kill them.

so. arty and air strikes are obviously quite overpowered. they can kill a fully armored mech, and, when your team drops 2 consecutively, can kill your whole team. this consumable shouldnt have that kind of power. i was in a match where there was 11 of us left and 3 enemies left. they dropped 3 artys consecutively while we were grouped up and killed all 11 of us. these consumables need to be nerfed to either 15 points, 20 MAX per round and tripled in price. people shouldnt have the ability to kill a whole team with 3 of these modules nor should they need to rely on them to win. its a support item. its supposed to soften up mechs, not kill them. now i can understand if a mech is stripped of armor and gets destroyed by one, but when im in a fully armored atlas and get hit in the head by 2 of the shots and i get killed, that is unnacceptable.

If 3 strikes killed your group, one of the following is true:

1.) RNG was not nice to you guys and you took 11 headshots from 3 strikes (not bloody likely)

2.) You were all torn to bits already and the strikes just finished it off...(more likely)

3.) You were all running XL engines with open STs and strikes finished you off...(not super likely...)

The obvious thing to point out is this: if 11 of you were killed by 3 strikes, you had to be stacked on top of each other in a choke point...which is blatant stupidity in and of itself.

Now, my only complaint is that strikes can headshot with a single round. Other than that less problematic issue these days...strikes are basically fine.

Sorry, but have to say it...L2P.

[Khobai]

Quote

They are really only unfair against assaults in my opinion. It can be impossible for the slower ones to do anything even if they see the smoke.

Theyre really only unfair against assaults when they headshot them. Which does happen... especially when the assault is walking uphill and its head is angled towards the shells as they rain down.

Tone down the damage to 25-30 and I think it would be fine.

[Troutmonkey]

Davers, on 05 November 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

Math backs me up, as moving at 48 kph is 133 meters in 10 seconds.

I keep saying 'if you are already moving' and you keep giving examples of stationary mechs. Maybe that is where we are crossing points?

Your maths doesn't include acceleration, and seeing as Assaults and many other mechs are spotted while stationary (why call arty on a moving target?) his argument is valid.

If a strike is placed in front of you as you're moving it's even worse as you have to overcome deceleration, then acceleration and to top it off you'll probably want to be going in reverse so as not to expose your rear. and The delay between smoke and the strike is simply too short. Sure you could run through the smoke, probably out of cover and into enemy fire, and you'll probably be hit be the strike anyway.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 05 November 2014 - 09:21 PM.

[Davers]

Troutmonkey, on 05 November 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

Your maths doesn't include acceleration, and seeing as Assaults and many other mechs are spotted while stationary (why call arty on a moving target?) his argument is valid.

If a strike is placed in front of you as you're moving it's even worse as you have to overcome deceleration, then acceleration and to top it off you'll probably want to be going in reverse so as not to expose your rear. and The delay between smoke and the strike is simply too short. Sure you could run through the smoke, probably out of cover and into enemy fire, and you'll probably be hit be the strike anyway.

How many times must I mention that I have said 'if the mech is already moving' before people read that? Yes, a stationary assault mech will get hit by an arty strike. But isn't that the ENTIRE POINT of arty strikes, to hit stationary mechs?

[Koda Shy]

I think they are ok, just like lrm, they have been in all the MW games, its nothing new at all, and if placed behind you, you are just screwed..... but betty saying "air strike eminent" to those like 100m around the smoke .......... that would be really nice.

[Troutmonkey]

Davers, on 05 November 2014 - 09:24 PM, said:

How many times must I mention that I have said 'if the mech is already moving' before people read that? Yes, a stationary assault mech will get hit by an arty strike. But isn't that the ENTIRE POINT of arty strikes, to hit stationary mechs?

And as I said, who calls a strike on a moving mech? And if someone did plant one at some point in front of you would you attempt to try and run through it 50kph or turn around? Most pilots including myself would turn around.

[CocoaJin]

Artillery should make all units within its effective range poop themselves the instant the ground sound them begins to boil...it doesn't matter what kind of unit you are piloting, a direct hit from an artillery round should be devastating. These aren't mortar rounds, these arent RPGs, these ain't big AC rounds, these are ballistically fired bombs. LRMs soften targets, artillery is a mech mulcher.

Plus, they have to be especially good so we can spend flown done of the wallets of long time players who got an extra year and half to accumulate C-bills prior to CW. If we are lucky, done of these fat wallets and their units won't be a deep pocket as they are now, so the cost model for engaging in CW remains significant to them as it will inevitably be for the rest of us.

Edited by CocoaJin, 05 November 2014 - 09:44 PM.

[AC]

I don't think they need a nerf, I just think there needs to be a limit to how many can be dropped in one game. I was in a game recently where there was an arty strike every 10 seconds it seemed. It was flipping ridiculous. All it was is bombs falling from the sky. I thought this was suppose to be a game where the results were based on skill, not how many arty strikes a team can spam.

I understand they are useful to break up teams that are camping, or capping. But there needs to be some limits....

[Chagatay]

aniviron, on 05 November 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

Ah, got it, so the team should be spread out and moving while on a cap point? And because spreading out is such a great idea in MWO?

I mean, even trying to basecap in assault is a terrible idea. Every single team that tries just gets 3-4 strikes rained on them, ggclothes.

It's also a super awful system for lights and mediums. In fact, I just alt-f4'd out of a match because I was moving around the back of my team at 90kph, not clustered, moving quickly, and a random shell from the line of an airstrike drops down and takes off one arm and puts both legs into deep orange. Game over, no warning, done. I left because that's not fun, that's awful gameplay.

There is a fine balance between grouped and cuddled up like sheep on top of each other waiting to be slaughtered. In reality, deathball is the wrong term....the correct formation (when possible) is british firing line. Even better if you have staggered lines crossfiring the enemy into obvilion.

Arty and air strikes are ok.

[Belorion]

3 Artie's didn't kill 11 mechs... They just didnt .

[Abisha]

agree, they have no place in mech warrior, this aint air strike warrior.

[Davers]

Troutmonkey, on 05 November 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

And as I said, who calls a strike on a moving mech? And if someone did plant one at some point in front of you would you attempt to try and run through it 50kph or turn around? Most pilots including myself would turn around.

at 48 kph that is 13 meters a second. You should run through, not turn around.

So simply, keep moving.

[InspectorG]

Blueduck, on 05 November 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

They are really only unfair against assaults in my opinion. It can be impossible for the slower ones to do anything even if they see the smoke.

Yet Assaults(dual Gauss+whatever,etc.) can usually one-shot lights, but lights cannot one shot them...

The plot thickens...

Belorion, on 05 November 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

3 Artie's didn't kill 11 mechs... They just didnt .

MAYBE, MAYBE, at the very end of the match when everyone was missing armor and everyone had XLengines...maybe.