IraqiWalker, on 14 May 2015 - 02:51 AM, said:
The same response still applies.
Clan tech is about DoT, for ballistics PP FLD is superior considering the ranges, also HSR kinda ruins the whole burst fire deal for clans, so that needs to be fixed.
While quirks are indeed effective, the IS meta is centered in only a few mechs in the heavy class. As far as lights go, no matter the quirks you slap on a locust, the meta is still Firestarters, and Spiders.
As for naming a clan light that is very useful, you've got 2 at least that are solid choices:
Kitfox, and Arctic Cheetah.
The IS has 2 or 3 meta chassis that can actually compete at range with the clans, while every clan mech comes stock with the ability of being a top line long range combatant.
The nice thing about quirks is that they keep getting adjusted and modified (remember when the LCT-3M had Small Pulse Laser quirks? Or when the Nova Prime had negative quirks on it's arms, each worth an entire HBK-9P?)
On a side note:
As far as clan tech being superior, it really wasn't that much better in lore. The main reason was because clans were fighting tech 1 mechs, the stock configs we get in this game when we first purchase a mech.
Of course, the weapons being better across the board helped out, but nowhere near as big of a gap as people keep thinking it should be. In fact, the real edge clans had wasn't the weaponry. It was the omni pod tech. Allowed them to re-fit, and fix mechs in the span of hours, instead of weeks to months.
In fact, if you play TT now, and do tech 2 IS vs. Clans, just close into short range, and engage in melee that is pretty much the end of the clan force right then and there.
In this game we have the different mechanics of PP FLD, and DoT. Now at long range, the clans have Gauss (IS might have quirked extra range on a couple of mechs, but clan gauss is still smaller and lighter), and ERPPC. While the IS has Gauss, PPC, ERPPC, and AC2?
Clans are lacking in the PP FLD department, but they make up for it by having the highest DPS, and excelling at DoT. If an enemy gets into a staredown contest with a clan mech, they will melt super fast.
All this dancing is leading up to the point that IS has Ballistics as their main weapon. While clans have lasers as their main weapon.
Also, HSR needs to get fixed, before any modifications can be done on weapons.
That being out of the way...
The same response applies.
Anyway, is clans really damage over time? most IS mechs with quirks to there strength always have better DoT over Clans.
Nova Verse Hunchback.
Kitfox Verse Spider
Adder Verse Firestarter
Stormcrow Verse Griffin (for missile vs missile), Wolverine (for mixed missile and energy verse missile and energy), Shadowhawk (energy/ ballistics)
Awesome verse Warhawk
King crab verse direwolf
(list above comparing to the counterpart of similar era, tonnage, role, and weight class)
As some generals genericly all IS lights out DPS most clan mechs between 20 to 40 tons.
etc, list goes on. Some IS mechs fire so rapidly that they fire again before the reload sound with weapons like PPC's, AC 20's, etc. That says a lot. Especially considering that only 1-2 Clan mechs got quirks for 20% Max and the majority are stuck between negative 10% and 8%?
Also I wouldn't consider clan ballistics being a PP FLD advantage considering they fire multiple bullets over time to the point an SRM would be considered more of a FLD weapon then a weapon firing 2 to 5 bullets to deliver there full damage. Only the gauss has the advantage here but considering most clan mechs have hard wiring being an issue it's kind of hard to compete.
Duel gauss mad dog verse Duel Gauss Jagermech.
Tell me who you will think would win?
Or a Singular Gauss Stormcrow verse a Singular Gauss Grid Iron.
it can be a minor advantage that clans got CASE everywhere and thus Gauss explosion isn't that bad, but that's only a 0.5 ton set back for the IS for 1 and 1.0 ton for 2 and they already have often the advantage in ammo and such for simular builds and play styles.
Also IS have more then PPC, Gauss, and an AC 2 for range for this damage type, (even then, clan ER PPC wastes it's heat on 2.5 + 2.5 splash damage that practically does nothing unless you alpha over 3 to have a noticable effect ie a near miss on a cored component, which at this point makes a mech suffer severe ghost heat and I do not think most clans can handle 3 ER PPC alpha).
IS got the AC 5, ER PPC, and for some mechs the AC 10 even sneaks it way up there due to range, fire rate, and velocity quirks.
Also you can't say much on the effectiveness of the Arctic Cheetah as it is not in game yet. for all your knowledge it'll get the clan anti meta treatment and have nerf-quirks 10% for nearly everything that doens't force you to put a UAC 5 on it or LRM's.
As for the kitfox this would still lose to any IS light mech in a 1 verse 1 unless when running streaks but in this specific encounter a ranged IS Light such as a ER PPC / ER large laser / Large pulse laser Raven / Firestarter/ Panther/ Spider / Commando would win in this situation.
I know in istuations like these a mech isn't 100% made to be able to take out the same weight class. Such as how the Huginn a very deadly IS light can not kill other lights (excluding Clan lights and urbanmech due to low speed) but can deal a massive damage to assaults and heavies.
But the Kitfox doesn't stand out for that either unless when it runs LRM's which then it has greator capabilities over a Stalker for LRM boating. But hey. LRM's have never been part of meta. so that should not be to much part of this discussion granted I am talking about clans overall.
The Kitfox only saving grace is ECM which was pretty much stripped when the Hellbringer came in, another meh mech but better then a kitfox and has ECM and better overall hardpoints. So that stole the Kitfoxes thunder.
Take the ECM and AMS of a kitfox and you have a mech that struggles to compete with anything. Reguardless of tech.
Now on your topic of quirks, This is slightly true, but those mechs that got nerfed still peform better then the clan or nearest clan coutnerparts and still compare to the IS counterparts. (having nearly 14 locusts and possible 15th soon. I think I can say that for the locust with the small pulse quirks... I didn't even put small pulse on it then and still don't now)
Also what is up with your nova comment? negative quirks in most situation are quite poor. Also no such thing as a hunchback 9P, the 5P isn't here until 19 years from now, the 4P is what I assume yo uare refearing to but that thing still out peforms the nova now and back then. Only time the nova was good was before tech nerfs.
It is true quirks change but not in a long time from now, only quirk changes are clans getting better quirks and introduction of new quirk types such as 30% less UAC jam, 30% less LBX spread, etc. and ballances to chassis that got those quirks.
I am familiar with this point. Wouldn't this be one of the main supporting points that IS do not need quirks to make them seal club clans if tech 2 IS can already peform on par? I made this statement a few times in the past on why clans are not OP. especially in MW: O. When compairing it on my above list, I am using points from both stock, stock+ and ++, and builds that still resemble there stock load out / inspiration even if barely. (ie not talking about things like 2 AC 2 locusts as that extremely differs from the invisionment and ability of the locust)
Also the point about the DPS I will repeat I find incorrect, most IS mechs out do clans by DPS if you remove things like double firing from UAC's, which on most UAC boats (Direwolf for eg) jams. While mechs like the dragon 1N fires there guns if like it has 2 UAC 5's but 2 tons total removed compaired to IS UAC 5 as well as 0% jam. Unless the direwolf or timberwolf gets a 50% fire rate quirk to an AC 5, I do not think the clans are winning by DPS in most cases that isn't missile related.
IS do not use ballistics often as a main weapon, it's present in some meta but IS use more energy then clans I have seen in the current public matches and Tukayyid. 6 Large laser stlaker, ER large laser locust, 3 ER large laser shadowhawks, 7 Medium pulse laser thunderbolt, 3 ER PPC thunderbolt, 3-4 Large pulse laser thunderbolt, Grasshoppers genericly, etc all heavily use lasers, usually beat or surpas the clan counterpart, and genericlly have better range (Thunderbolt and Stalker for eg). Also energy isn't to the Clan advantage, only a specific combination of ER mediums and Large pulse lasers or on lighter mechs ER large lasers instead of Large pulse is present. Rarely ever see Small pulse, er small, medium pulse, or er ppcs being used well or to a good effect. or Using er mediums as a secondary weapon. If anything clans have an advantage, it would be missiles by far. Alas that would be dangerous to rely on in a public pug match and seeing the high ammount of ECM mechs on the IS side it would not be to well in CW either.
I do believe all weapon types should be valid on both factions. but Right now clans struggle to even use there (by your standard) "Strength" to good effect. Any advantages lore wise clans had for chassis to chassi comparison does not stick at all in MW: O and the quirks try to force the opposite to occur that a singular ER PPC on a IS mech can be more usefull then a single, duel, or even a tripple ER PPC on a clan mech even at a higher tonnage. For eg.
If you are saying I have a learn to play issue because I do not missile boat in a nova then I do not know much else to say to you besides hopping for a 40% LRM cool down on a nova to at least ease the pain of that sarcasm wall.
All this dancing is leading up to the point that IS has Ballistics as their main weapon. While clans have lasers as their main weapon.