134 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Brody319, on 04 January 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

I think the hitboxes when its running or punching its JJs jumble around. I have visually seen the hit on those areas and it either registers elsewhere or not at all. which is both hitreg and hitboxes.

JJ spamming causes problems on the majority of mechs. Some like the VTR and TBR are particularly infamous offenders.

Note that hitboxes "desyncing" from the model when JJ'ing or whatever, in my mind, is entirely different than "hitboxes being overpowered." The way I interpret hitbox nerf suggestions is something like making a mech have a gigantic CT (i.e. Dragon, Catapult, pre-fix Hellbringer, etc.), making the hitboxes bigger than the model itself (i.e. Raven legs), or something of that sort.

Having the hitboxes not flap around when jumpjetting doesn't change their shape or distribution, it just keeps them "locked in place." That's an important distinction to make...


In general, HSR is annoying as crap because the server sees a different situation than what you see on your screen. On your screen you might see a mech standing at a city street intersection, but HSR says "lolnope" because the server sees the mech standing a few meters to the left or right of your screen. So when it looks like the client-side is shooting an Atlas's center torso, the server-side might see it as you shooting the Atlas's right or left torso instead (usually not further away than that).

Brody319, on 04 January 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

also unless they decide to limit the number of weapons you can fire in a given amount of time, they should stick with ghost heat but it should be equal if they want both IS and Clans to be equal. no ghost heat on an IS weapon should be the same for the clan version of that weapon.

Trying to use heat from paranormal sources as "balancing" doesn't work too well, with the biggest reason being that people can and do just mix weapon groups. So heat thinks it's bad to fire 3 Large Lasers at the same time for 27 damage, but it's totally fine with you firing 6 Medium Lasers and 2 Large Lasers to deal 48 damage. All my wat...

Edited by FupDup, 04 January 2015 - 09:20 PM.

[Brody319]

Maybe PGI should focus on Hitreg and ghost heat reworks for the next patch.

[FupDup]

Brody319, on 04 January 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

Maybe PGI should focus on Hitreg and ghost heat reworks for the next patch.

Hitreg is certainly something that's been a problem for a while...

As for heat, reworking it is easy. Just set the max alpha for all weapons to 16.

[Brody319]

FupDup, on 04 January 2015 - 09:28 PM, said:

Hitreg is certainly something that's been a problem for a while...

As for heat, reworking it is easy. Just set the max alpha for all weapons to 16.

I don't know about that. I think progressive system would be better. like if the weapons you are firing generate so much heat at once you begin to generate ghost heat. Would keep the LPLs and PPC spam to minimum but allow smaller weapons to fire more. maybe like if it would generate 40 heat you generate 20 ghost heat.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Brody319, on 04 January 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

I don't know about that. I think progressive system would be better. like if the weapons you are firing generate so much heat at once you begin to generate ghost heat. Would keep the LPLs and PPC spam to minimum but allow smaller weapons to fire more. maybe like if it would generate 40 heat you generate 20 ghost heat.

Well, that's Heat Scale Penalties (Ghost Heat) in a nut shell, the key is adjusting when the penalty kicks in and how severe the penalty is.

If you like to check how the numbers on Smufy's chart are generated you can enter the formulas into a spreadsheet to get the different values using quirked heat numbers for example. That's what I did to see how quirked weapons like PPCs on the AWS-8Q are working out when firing more than two and then I saw all of these 9S threads and got curious about ERPPCs on them.

Here is the thread with the info you need, if you are interested in taking a look at that.

[Brody319]

Praetor Knight, on 04 January 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

Well, that's Heat Scale Penalties (Ghost Heat) in a nut shell, the key is adjusting when the penalty kicks in and how severe the penalty is.

If you like to check how the numbers on Smufy's chart are generated you can enter the formulas into a spreadsheet to get the different values using quirked heat numbers for example. That's what I did to see how quirked weapons like PPCs on the AWS-8Q are working out when firing more than two and then I saw all of these 9S threads and got curious about ERPPCs on them.

Here is the thread with the info you need, if you are interested in taking a look at that.

Well not really, what I was suggesting would be like if your mech would generate say 10 heat in an alpha, it would generate no ghost heat, 20 heat in an alpha, no ghost heat, 30 heat would result in a little bit of ghost heat, 40 heat more ghost heat, ect ect.

Would favor weapon control over packing as many weapons as you could without breaking the 2-6 rule.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Brody319, on 04 January 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

Well not really, what I was suggesting would be like if your mech would generate say 10 heat in an alpha, it would generate no ghost heat, 20 heat in an alpha, no ghost heat, 30 heat would result in a little bit of ghost heat, 40 heat more ghost heat, ect ect.

Would favor weapon control over packing as many weapons as you could without breaking the 2-6 rule.

Oh, so regardless of the weapons used?

From what I see with how the existing formulas are applied, I assume that what you are suggesting can be applied with some tweaks to when the penalty kicks in and by the amount of extra heat being generated.

---

What I'd like to see is a lower Heat Cap.

Keeping the existing systems in place, we can, for example, have an Elited mech have a 2x Basic'd Heat Cap be at 36.0 (from a base of 30 and the 20% Heat Contain Mech Tree Efficiency), then if each Heat Sink is set to 0.1 than it will take 20 of either SHS or DHS to get the Cap up to ~38.4 at most.

With plenty of maps that are heat neutral and enough that decrease Heat Capacity, that can limit Alphas without needing much in the way of more nerfs or increasing Heat Scale Penalties in any way.

And with such a change, I'd want to boost Dissipation up a tad, by at least allowing true external DHS dissipation.

[Brody319]

Exactly, so 2 PPCs would generate 20 heat, meaning no penalties, and for the Awesome you could bump that up to say 30 heat or more (depending on the chassis) of PPC heat not generating ghost heat. so it could use those 3 PPCs without worrying about ghost heat.

[Lando Kufahl]

First of all, obviously an Oxide with streaks would take a Firestarter. The JR7-K would be easiest to leg them out of the bunch but unless you get a straight and pretty much stationary shot on the Firestarter they will not go down easy. The fact is they are very overpowered down to the perks given and hitbox issues. In a circling brawl another light will much more often than not lose and yes of course a Firestarter will go down with LRM's provided you have a spotter or light pilot glued to his back... I see people using Firestarters running straight through a whole 12 mech group and coming out the other side still 80-90%, often, and I don't mean surprise hit and runs, I mean just straight running at mechs when they've seen you coming.

"You die because you run". Please. I said most players run... As in they fall back to the group. Please don't twist words to give patronising advice or make fun, and if you're actually trying to be constructive you've taken that as a very basic interpretation.

If you've challenged my point just to say how easy YOU find it to best a Firestarter that is just petty one-up-man-ship. And, if you know the Firestarter mechs yourselves and have a good understanding of the other light chassis; then you'll know that in the firestarter, you can adopt bold and aggressive play styles that any other light would not survive using. Right now they are the most unbalanced mech in the game followed closely by the thunderbolt.

[Squarebasher]

Crunk Prime, on 14 November 2014 - 02:04 AM, said:

-150kph
-JJ's
-8 small pulse lasers/8 small lasers
-32 damage alpha strike for pulse/24 damage for regular
-can fire about every 2 seconds with cooldown modules and pilot tree skills
-very little heat generated

Its a little too good.

And one decent hit and you are down

[Satan n stuff]

The Boz, on 02 December 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

Because consistently hitting something as small as a Firestarter, with the hitboxes the way they are now, going 150kph, at over 200 meters away, is totally viable counter.

It's not all that hard. If you're having trouble with it just use something with bigger pulse lasers.

[Sarlic]

You guys do realise your quoting a old post?

[StraferX]

If your having trouble with firestarters eating you up then you are either doing it all wrong or your ping is off the hook. No doubt they are formidable little beast and tough to hit but they truly are fragile.

So so many times I find a lone timber or cataphract and start chewing on its back or main weapon arm or what ever is easily exposed and they almost never react. By the third strike they start to look around and can't figure why they are armorless. When they do figure out you are there they fire a crack shot at you and go back to the big fight and I swoop in and finish them, or its to late for them and they frantically retreat and try to shoo me off like a fly. This never works once I have you isolated. Pay attention

PRO TIP: When you are flanked and engaged with a firstarter stop worrying about the big battle. Holler for help and focus on that tiny pest. If you square off on them it WILL run off if it is a smart pilot. If you sweep the legs with fire you pretty much wasted a shot because they roll damage pretty well. Stop, Focus and burn a glowy red hole right through his leg then hit the other as you retreat out of SPL range. If all that you are armed with is 400 tubes of LRM I laugh, stand between your feet and take your lunch money. What ever you do when encountering any light do not take it lightly, get to cover, evade damage and square up to them and leg.

I strongly dislike to see threads like this because it;s mostly from people who do not play well or just want an easy smash kill button. I guess I'll go start a counter thread about NERF THE LRM. Funny how every LRM user says they are virtually worthless and cause little damage and takes a pro to be effective yet every solo queue team had 6 mechs with millions of lrms and when anything shows up on radar the sky is blackened with rockets. Or may be a thread about why we should bring the uber high alpha damage down by 20% because you shoot my firestarter with more alpha damage than I have armor and HP combined.
I did L2P and avoid your cloud of rockets and can generally out juke your dual guass to the chest but when you do connect, I cry in a smouldering heap.

[TheCharlatan]

Most Firestarters are ok. I've fought against them in lights, mediums and assaults and they die if shot like any light.

But some firestarters seem invulnerable. I've seen firestarters stand in the middle of 6 other mechs and survive multiple alphas with almost no damage.

Right now Firestarters, for some reason, seem to be the mech most commonly blessed by this invulnerability.

This problem needs to be looked into and delt with.

[Jman5]

The shorter, more restrictive range you make a weapon, the more powerful you should make it at its optimal range. That is some basic, common sense balancing. Small Pulse lasers have the second worst range in the game after the Flamer. The only way you can make it usable is if it's actually good at very, very short range. Otherwise people would just bring medium lasers for the massive range advantage.

It's like how most shooters balance shotguns. Terrible/useless at long range, but deadly at short range.