262 replies to this topic

[Noesis]

I find the game playable with LRMs and consider them just dandy where they are now.

[Joseph Mallan]

Yumemi79, on 17 November 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

While i agree on the AMS/LRM ton ration, i also believe that you hardly get targetet by 5-7 gausscannons at once while fighting someone else. Or magic missiles hitting you from wierd angles behind the tallest building in the universe, just because you got narced or taged by a scout. ^^

If that is the case the other team is fighting wrong. I was Soloing another Atlas Yesterday, We were slugging it out I was getting the worst of the exchange. Then The enemy died, I look and see A Dire, a Timber and a Griffin standing there... All blue Icons! Thank you gentlemen!

[Magos Titanicus]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 15 November 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

Pretty much game is unplayble since a few months due to intense lrm rains. Not that the arc of those lrms are insane, narc adds a different quality to the lrm rain too.

"go behind cover" doesnt work due to the ridiculous arc

i dont mind some lrm mechs but when half of the enemy Team is Boating lrm 50 and more is then this gets just silly.

Dumb animals can play a lrm mech.

Pgi has to act fast.

When challenges are on some ppl usually try to do the challenge with min effort. That means boating lrms.

I dont blame those ppl but pgi because of the broken lrm mechanic.

Go ahead and suggest below how the lrm mechanic could be changed from the "ground" if needed


EDit: As a side note to everyone who says: Good player dont mind lrms anyways. You must be low elo player:
http://metamechs.com...08/******-lrms/

get an AMS!

[Sarlic]

Crispy onions, some paprika and mushrooms.... Hmmm..

It's page 12 already. Oh wait, so where are we at?

[Kensaisama]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

That doesn't mean they are an OP weapon, just that there are a lot of them and the complaining is usually from those who want to brawl or look their enemy in the eye as they fight. But that is not how Everyone wants to fight. What is n ot fun for some IS fun for others. Its why I don't complain about how players fight in the game. The more Variety the better the game. When I die I see a Litany of of Weapons ranging from MGs to LRMs. Thats a good mix in my book. Some times its AC20 Lrg laser LRM10 or MGs, PPC and SRMs, but once in a while its LRM15, LRM20, LRM5 Medium lasers. Good mix if you ask me.

I see two issues. Free C3 target sharing for easy indirect fire and LRM boating. With both of those you get complaint threads, and with good reason. Remove the target sharing and I will bet a lot of these LRM complaint threads will disappear, or restrict the missile hardpoints on LRM boats if the target sharing stays. By restrict I mean limit the type of missiles that can be mounted on the mech. For example, 6 missile racks on the Catapult A1 [I believe it is the A1], you cannot mount more than 4 LRM racks on the mech, you must have at least two SRM's. Not a popular option I would guess, but something needs to be done. We have TAG and NARC in game to facilitate indirect fire availability, we do not have C3 computers so the target data sharing needs to go. No one brought TAG or NARC? Oh well looks like you need to get that LOS alone and expose yourself to return fire.

Balance is lacking with the current LRM weapons platform, nerfing the weapons themselves is not the answer when the core gameplay is at fault [target data sharing]. This is my opinion and thoughts on the subject, some will share it, others will not.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kensaisama, on 17 November 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

I see two issues. Free C3 target sharing for easy indirect fire and LRM boating. With both of those you get complaint threads, and with good reason. Remove the target sharing and I will bet a lot of these LRM complaint threads will disappear, or restrict the missile hardpoints on LRM boats if the target sharing stays. By restrict I mean limit the type of missiles that can be mounted on the mech. For example, 6 missile racks on the Catapult A1 [I believe it is the A1], you cannot mount more than 4 LRM racks on the mech, you must have at least two SRM's. Not a popular option I would guess, but something needs to be done. We have TAG and NARC in game to facilitate indirect fire availability, we do not have C3 computers so the target data sharing needs to go. No one brought TAG or NARC? Oh well looks like you need to get that LOS alone and expose yourself to return fire.

Balance is lacking with the current LRM weapons platform, nerfing the weapons themselves is not the answer when the core gameplay is at fault [target data sharing]. This is my opinion and thoughts on the subject, some will share it, others will not.

You have eyes on, and feed me the telemetry. ECM in MW:O Does much more than the TT version ever did, It does more than Even Angel ECM does. So our Built in targeting and tracking systems seem to already have a network going. If I 'm targeting an enemy Dire Wolf, I look forward to some Long Ranged Fire Support if its available. I WANT that extra 120 damage raining every 5-8 seconds. Team works wins a match faster than bravado.

[Kensaisama]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

You have eyes on, and feed me the telemetry. ECM in MW:O Does much more than the TT version ever did, It does more than Even Angel ECM does. So our Built in targeting and tracking systems seem to already have a network going. If I 'm targeting an enemy Dire Wolf, I look forward to some Long Ranged Fire Support if its available. I WANT that extra 120 damage raining every 5-8 seconds. Team works wins a match faster than bravado.

ECM implementation is all messed up and backwards, I can't believe you brought up a broken system That is of course my opinion. You are correct Team work wins a match. However, since most of the rules implemented in MWO are based off the TT rules....... yeah I know another TT bla bla bla. Unless you have a C3, TAG, or NARC, indirect fire cannot be done. Since we do not have tonnage dedicated to either the C3 or C3i units installed....... well you know the rest of my arguement.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kensaisama, on 17 November 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

ECM implementation is all messed up and backwards, I can't believe you brought up a broken system That is of course my opinion. You are correct Team work wins a match. However, since most of the rules implemented in MWO are based off the TT rules....... yeah I know another TT bla bla bla. Unless you have a C3, TAG, or NARC, indirect fire cannot be done. Since we do not have tonnage dedicated to either the C3 or C3i units installed....... well you know the rest of my arguement.

All you need is a Mech with eyes on the target to be allowed indirect fire on TT... There are negatives for it but that is simulated pretty well by losing lock when missiles are in flight. Its a gamble that can gobble up a lot of ammo.

Advice from one TT player on the CBT forum:

Quote

Indirect fire is my main form of attack. Here are a dozen lessons I've learned:

1. Massed indirect fire works best. The whole point of indirect fire is that you can hit the enemy and the enemy can't hit you back. Hide your whole force and expose only your spotters. If you just have one or two hidden units firing indirectly and the rest of your force engaging in direct fire, the enemy is not at all disadvantaged because they can still hit your exposed 'Mechs. I like to use spotters and four Archer 5Ws at 6000 points - that's 160 LRMs firing every turn!

2. Spotters should be incredibly fast (like Sprint helicopters with TAG or Scimitar hovertanks with TAG and Narc) or far away (infantry hidden high up on hills a map away behind your lines). You need to have a strategy to keep your spotters alive while they paint targets for your missile boats. The TAG-varient of the Ostscout also works well.

3. Use TAG and Narc! Read up on these in the "Special Munitions" section of Total Warfare! Remember to also read the "Building a Force" section in the "Battle Values" section of TechManual because you have to pay extra BV for every ton of special munitions that you take to work with TAG.

4. Designate on your record sheets what type of ammo each ton of ammo is. For each of my Archer 5Ws, I have FIVE types of ammo - two tons of Narc LRMs, two tons of TAG-compatible LRMs, two tons of Narc homing beacons, one ton of SRMs, and one ton of inferno SRMs.

5. Put as much terrain in between you and the enemy to slow and break up the enemy advance. I like to put my Archers behind hills but also have a river and rubble or trees in the way too to slow my enemy's 'Mechs. Their slower advance makes them easier to hit and gives you more time to pound away on them indirectly. As well, the enemy 'Mechs often become separated and attack piecemeal - the faster 'Mechs get ahead of the heavies which get ahead of the assaults and when they do attack you directly they are easier to blow away one at a time.

6. Give yourself room to do a fighting withdrawal! I run my Archers up to a hill but then often have to backpeddle as the enemy closes the gap on me. Since you are loaded up with LRMs you need to keep the enemy far away. Have an escape plan to withdraw from your position as the enemy advances. I like city-fighting because I can keep withdrawing deeper into the city, keeping my Archers hidden and tempting the enemy to run, skid, and fall in the city.

7. Have a plan to engage at short range. The enemy WILL catch up to you. I ran out of LRMs in my last battle and my Archers (with two SRM 4s each) were no match for the Atlas 7D still coming at me. Next time I'll be ready because I now will take infernos as well as standard SRMs. Thirty-two SRMs firing, say 16 of them hitting, might not scare an Atlas, but a potential of 64 extra heat will!

8. Use cheap BV missile boats. You need as many LRMs firing as possible! I use Archer 5Ws because at 1337 BV each in a 6000 BV game I can get four in a lance rather than just three of the better but more expensive BV Archers. Quantity has a quality of its own.

9. Don't dilute your indirect barrage potential with a guard 'Mech. I took a Rifleman 6X in my lance last game but I really missed the extra 40 LRMs the fourth Archer usually provides - 160 LRMs are so much better than 120 LRMs.

10. Concentrate fire on one enemy 'Mech at a time. Don't just scrape the armor off all his 'Mechs when you can actually kill a target.

11. Keep your missile boats together. They will need to support each other when enemies come close and be able to concentrate their short-range firepower on targets. Remember that LRM boats individually have less short-range capability so they need to combine their fire even in the close battle.

12. Learn from your mistakes. Indirect fire requires a lot of thinking. You will make mistakes and need to think after each battle - what did I do wrong or what could I have done better? I've played Archer lances since last November and I'm still learning - I just figured out to use infernos!

That's all I can think of for now. Read my batreps in the "After Acition Reports" section to see how indirect fire does in battle. Good luck.

No whining there.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 November 2014 - 09:58 AM.

[Kensaisama]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

All you need is a Mech with eyes on the target to be allowed indirect fire on TT... There are negatives for it but that is simulated pretty well by losing lock when missiles are in flight. Its a gamble that can gobble up a lot of ammo.

Advice from one TT player on the CBT forum:


No whining there.

Yeah I've seen that. Good advice for TT.

If I remember correctly, there were penalties involved if you were doing anything other than just sitting there with eyes on. How did you plan to provide such a penalty translation into MWO? You know what I'm going to say

Edited by Kensaisama, 17 November 2014 - 10:13 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kensaisama, on 17 November 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Yeah I've seen that. Good advice for TT.

Yes were the Mechs only carry 1/2 as much armor!

[PurpleNinja]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 15 November 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

"go behind cover" doesnt work due to the ridiculous arc

I heard someone saying missiles will hit at 90º after next patch.

[Joseph Mallan]

PurpleNinja, on 17 November 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

I heard someone saying missiles will hit at 90º after next patch.

Don't even joke!

[ollo]

Kensaisama, on 17 November 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

I see two issues. Free C3 target sharing for easy indirect fire and LRM boating. With both of those you get complaint threads, and with good reason.

Well a C3 is not required in battletech to share target data, and there are canon LRM boats. Next proposal to "fix the issue"?

[Zerberus]

As promised in another thread, I am , after two years, nbo longer interested in providing advicea dn tips becasuse they are incessantly ignored, anyway.

Now, I provide motivation to learn, or quit. As long as the whining stops , I do not care which happens. After 2 years, I am fed up with the BS.

This thread alone has enough posts perpetuating untruths and fallacies about LRMs to make them more of a boogeyman that I will forseeably be driving an LRM 95 stormcrow until the end of the year.

I recommend, for the last time, stocking up on AMS ammo /radar derp modules /ECM, and learning the difference between cover /concealment /open space. The fireworks are coming early this year, but if you use your brain you won`t get burned

You have been warned.

[Joseph Mallan]

ollo, on 17 November 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

Well a C3 is not required in battletech to share target data, and there are canon LRM boats. Next proposal to "fix the issue"?

Best of them all. The Kraken 3. 8 LRM 15s 120 missiles launch able from one Mech!

[Kensaisama]

ollo, on 17 November 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

Well a C3 is not required in battletech to share target data, and there are canon LRM boats. Next proposal to "fix the issue"?

I have no issue with anything canon, and you are correct on C3. At least I have made some suggestions, what have you done?

[Joseph Mallan]

Kensaisama, on 17 November 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

I have no issue with anything canon, and you are correct on C3. At least I have made some suggestions, what have you done?

Played against every boogieman build and came to a way to beat them. LRMs were much worse in Closed beta than they are now cause we had mor Damage per missile and Splash damage that was giving us a huge overdose of damage. Missiles are not to powerful only to plentiful, and that is not a problem unless you die to them a lot.

[hybrid black]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 15 November 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

Pretty much game is unplayble since a few months due to intense lrm rains. Not that the arc of those lrms are insane, narc adds a different quality to the lrm rain too.

"go behind cover" doesnt work due to the ridiculous arc

i dont mind some lrm mechs but when half of the enemy Team is Boating lrm 50 and more is then this gets just silly.

Dumb animals can play a lrm mech.

Pgi has to act fast.

When challenges are on some ppl usually try to do the challenge with min effort. That means boating lrms.

I dont blame those ppl but pgi because of the broken lrm mechanic.

Go ahead and suggest below how the lrm mechanic could be changed from the "ground" if needed


EDit: As a side note to everyone who says: Good player dont mind lrms anyways. You must be low elo player:
http://metamechs.com...08/******-lrms/

Game unplayable with so many scrubs fix elo/remove please

[Sheraf]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 15 November 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

Pretty much game is unplayble since a few months due to intense lrm rains. Not that the arc of those lrms are insane, narc adds a different quality to the lrm rain too.

"go behind cover" doesnt work due to the ridiculous arc

i dont mind some lrm mechs but when half of the enemy Team is Boating lrm 50 and more is then this gets just silly.

Dumb animals can play a lrm mech.

Pgi has to act fast.

When challenges are on some ppl usually try to do the challenge with min effort. That means boating lrms.

I dont blame those ppl but pgi because of the broken lrm mechanic.

Go ahead and suggest below how the lrm mechanic could be changed from the "ground" if needed


EDit: As a side note to everyone who says: Good player dont mind lrms anyways. You must be low elo player:
http://metamechs.com...08/******-lrms/

Try to use a LRM mech, and see for yourself, otherwise use a better position or cover.

[Kensaisama]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Played against every boogieman build and came to a way to beat them. LRMs were much worse in Closed beta than they are now cause we had mor Damage per missile and Splash damage that was giving us a huge overdose of damage. Missiles are not to powerful only to plentiful, and that is not a problem unless you die to them a lot.

Exactly, to plentiful.

Edited by Kensaisama, 17 November 2014 - 11:43 AM.