506 replies to this topic

[Spawnsalot]

I read your suggestion post Sandpit, the rnr costs would just punish the space poor while the rich keep running their fully kitted mechs against gimped machines at a larger and larger disadvantage.

Your techs part is just buying premium time with c-bills, which I can see being an expensive necessity to help offset rnr costs. Don't have a tech? You're paying more and have a smaller chance at winning the medium laser lottery.

While salvage on its own might be nice, in the environment you suggest you'll more than likely be killing other intergalactic paupers so you have a chance of winning a single heatsink or an ac/2.

While I can't speak for WoT, WO P or WT, DDO and SWTOR both have a pve component and several other forms of income like NPC loot and inter-player trade. Rnr in those games is a much smaller inconvenience left over from earlier games where it was used as a system to limit/control player income, a fun tax.

Rnr worked in previous MW titles because it was in the single player part where mechs and equipment were much easier to come by and earnings were higher anyway and you could always supplement your wallet by selling of surplus chassis' salvaged from whatever previous missions you had played.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall ever paying for my mechs out anything in the multiplayer component of previous titles.

[Burktross]

Oh boy, this set of Orions I've bought with my real money sure is nice!
Too bad playing them is economically idiotic!

[ollo]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 November 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Aw, did your XL engine, Ferro armor Arty LRM boat cost you money to run?


So sad.

It didn't, because everyone not out of their mind just dropped in already half-dead mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

ollo, on 16 November 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

It didn't, because everyone not out of their mind just dropped in already half-dead mechs.

I never did, and I made a ton of money. But then, I never felt the need to min max. Just took my old CN9-AH and blew expensive components off of the guys who did, lol.

[Burktross]

HlynkaCG, on 16 November 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

• How can you claim to have killed something that never existed?

You wot m8?
RnR did exist.

[Brody319]

How to make R&R Work:
1. Make it free
2. Make it instant
3. Boost all c-bill earnings to compensate.

[ToxinTractor]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 November 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Aw, did your XL engine, Ferro armor Arty LRM boat cost you money to run?


So sad.

Acutally no, I didnt use really anything out side of endo mainly because back then I was one very very poor mechwarrior who drove hunchbacks mostly.

[Prezimonto]

Davers, on 16 November 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

There has never been an R&R suggestion that wasn't a tax, in either time or money.

You're wrong. I've had a thread going for a long time on the idea that RnR should apply INSIDE matches only. I've even posted about it in this thread. Given CW coming this type of RnR could be even more relevant.

http://mwomercs.com/...tyle-game-mode/

[Sandpit]

Spawnsalot, on 16 November 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

I read your suggestion post Sandpit, the rnr costs would just punish the space poor while the rich keep running their fully kitted mechs against gimped machines at a larger and larger disadvantage.

Your techs part is just buying premium time with c-bills, which I can see being an expensive necessity to help offset rnr costs. Don't have a tech? You're paying more and have a smaller chance at winning the medium laser lottery.

While salvage on its own might be nice, in the environment you suggest you'll more than likely be killing other intergalactic paupers so you have a chance of winning a single heatsink or an ac/2.

While I can't speak for WoT, WO P or WT, DDO and SWTOR both have a pve component and several other forms of income like NPC loot and inter-player trade. Rnr in those games is a much smaller inconvenience left over from earlier games where it was used as a system to limit/control player income, a fun tax.

Rnr worked in previous MW titles because it was in the single player part where mechs and equipment were much easier to come by and earnings were higher anyway and you could always supplement your wallet by selling of surplus chassis' salvaged from whatever previous missions you had played.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall ever paying for my mechs out anything in the multiplayer component of previous titles.

Again, the whole argument of "punishes new players" and/or "punishing poor" needs to stop

First and foremost, this is a CW suggestion. I'm not in any way suggesting this mechanic be implemented in pub matches. I guess I should have clarified that (but in my defense to that regard I hae argued for years now in that this is specifically a CW mechanic in my suggestion) so the whole "but what about those poor people and new players?" argument is invalid.

CW is the hardcore mode. It's for those that want more of a challenge. It's for those that are tired of the mindless no consequences deathmatches of the past 2 years. CW is not meant for the "casual" player who just wants to shoot stompy robots. They already have their multiple game modes and ability to play the game.

This is for those that want more of a challenge. Nobody is required at any time to play CW for any reason. It's completely and totally optional. Everyone arguing from that standpoint (and not meaning to attack you personally, just pointing out that several have used that argument over the years) is simply trying to tell those that want that more challenging mode that they should continue to cater exclusively to the "shoot stompy robots" crowd and not give them options to play in a more difficult setting.

[ollo]

Sandpit, on 16 November 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

No, those are "acceptable taxes" in your eyes, that's the only difference. Those limitations are "ok" in your eyes so they're "ok" to have in the game. You just don't like R&R so taht particular limitation isn't "ok" in your eyes. That's the only difference. Choose to ignore all the reasons listed. Choose to continue trying to bait and personally insult other people's intelligence because they don't agree with you.

I thought R&R was a cool idea (knowing it form the past MW titles) until i saw what it did to the game, that made me think again and i realized that it's a terrible idea for an already grindy game. PPL will literally do EVERYTHING to avoid every bit of grind they can, so the time in beta has shown how f'ed up everyones experience will be if they reimplement it.

Now you are not talking of R&R anymore. Decoupling it from the cost it will not hamper the grind, it will just be another penalty for those that are on the short end for whatever reason. Dropped in a bad team? Pay for it. Dropped against a top 12 man? Pay for it. Don't want to play your crappy mechs? Pay for it.

R&R is at best a mechanic to further reward the already having while punishing the unfortunate - what the game lacks is the other way around. At worst it will be bad for everyone like in beta.

Sorry, i don't see how this will do anything good for the game at all, apart from putting a little lore atmosphere in CW. But you'll pay for it.

Quote

When you can have a meaningful conversation without personal insults I'll engage you in such, until then I'll continue to ignore you just as I have been.

Oh, i can have a meaningful conversation, it's just that the whole topic reeks of foul game mechanics, and i thought i'd list the most probable reasons first.

[Davers]

Prezimonto, on 16 November 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

You're wrong. I've had a thread going for a long time on the idea that RnR should apply INSIDE matches only. I've even posted about it in this thread. Given CW coming this type of RnR could be even more relevant.

http://mwomercs.com/...tyle-game-mode/

While I like the idea of important secondary goals, I think having mechs in constant random states of disrepair would be more annoying than interesting. With the 5+ objectives, each with a timer, it would mean that it is likely that the winning side will still lose one, and the loser would lose more. Add in the fact that the losses stack, and you have a nice death spiral for the losing team.

[ollo]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 November 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

I never did, and I made a ton of money. But then, I never felt the need to min max. Just took my old CN9-AH and blew expensive components off of the guys who did, lol.

And guess how much fun it was for the guys already investing a lot of grind into better hardware and then paying again and again. I found the XL engines particularly funny - equipping them was actually a downgrade that cost you ~4 millions, as the mech was not viable anymore after that.

No, punishing death in a game where all games should ideally end 11:12 is just bad game design. It might work, for a while and if you got the playerbase, but as i said the lack of R&R already converts players to MWO. If it was the other way round we might as well bury the game now.

[Sandpit]

ollo, on 16 November 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

I thought R&R was a cool idea (knowing it form the past MW titles) until i saw what it did to the game, that made me think again and i realized that it's a terrible idea for an already grindy game. PPL will literally do EVERYTHING to avoid every bit of grind they can, so the time in beta has shown how f'ed up everyones experience will be if they reimplement it.

Now you are not talking of R&R anymore. Decoupling it from the cost it will not hamper the grind, it will just be another penalty for those that are on the short end for whatever reason. Dropped in a bad team? Pay for it. Dropped against a top 12 man? Pay for it. Don't want to play your crappy mechs? Pay for it.

R&R is at best a mechanic to further reward the already having while punishing the unfortunate - what the game lacks is the other way around. At worst it will be bad for everyone like in beta.

Sorry, i don't see how this will do anything good for the game at all, apart from putting a little lore atmosphere in CW. But you'll pay for it.



Oh, i can have a meaningful conversation, it's just that the whole topic reeks of foul game mechanics, and i thought i'd list the most probable reasons first.

once again you're trying to compare the ideas and suggestions here to an old implementation that isn't even remotely close to things being discussed.

[TygerLily]

Sug, on 16 November 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

The R&R ship has long since sailed on this game.

Adding it now would be a direct nerf to the only point to playing the game: earning cbills.

They could have kept it in if CW went something like:

House Faction Units: No R&R, but available mechs are limited according to House lore. No customization. (For new Players)

Merc Units: R&R covered by the Unit, more mechs available, some customization allowed. (average players)

Lone Wolf: Player is completely responsible for their R&R. Any mech is available if you can afford it. Full customization if you can afford it. (advanced players)


There needs to be some incentive to wanting to pay R&R or else it's just another cbill nerf.

I like this sort of idea as well. While R&R is inappropriate for the non-Community Warfare, I think it could add a fun element especially if it played similarly to how Sug suggested.

I think if there was a higher Cbill income that accounted for the R&R then it would be unnoticeable for your income as a whole, however, very good games with minimal damage or very bad games with total wipes, would be reflected in getting the gear back up and running (or enjoying the spoils).

I think limiting Houses to lore units and giving free R&R is a good dea.

Giving Mercs R&R that comes from the coffers (Mechs broke for CW? Gotta head to the public queue and then donate to the coffer!)

Lone Wolf, pays for R&R but at a much, much lower rate than Mercs.

For LW and Mercs, you could even give them a discount depending on the faction they are currently fighting for and/or repairing and rearming Mech particular to that faction.

[Sandpit]

TygerLily, on 16 November 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

I like this sort of idea as well. While R&R is inappropriate for the non-Community Warfare, I think it could add a fun element especially if it played similarly to how Sug suggested.

I think if there was a higher Cbill income that accounted for the R&R then it would be unnoticeable for your income as a whole, however, very good games with minimal damage or very bad games with total wipes, would be reflected in getting the gear back up and running (or enjoying the spoils).

I think limiting Houses to lore units and giving free R&R is a good dea.

Giving Mercs R&R that comes from the coffers (Mechs broke for CW? Gotta head to the public queue and then donate to the coffer!)

Lone Wolf, pays for R&R but at a much, much lower rate than Mercs.

For LW and Mercs, you could even give them a discount depending on the faction they are currently fighting for and/or repairing and rearming Mech particular to that faction.

That's the other side of things that those jumping up and down about this fail to acknowledge as well.
Going broke?
Not earning fast enough for your liking?
Easily remedied by jumping into the pub queue and playing to your heart's content. Instead they seem to think everyone should only play the way they want to

[Vassago Rain]

Sandpit, on 16 November 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

Instead they seem to think everyone should only play the way they want to

That's kinda the point of videogames, Sandpit. Are you saying that we MUST put up with mindless grinding in the ghetto to afford to run in the totally awesome and exclusive CW mode?

Because that just sounds like world of tanks to me, and it's one of many reasons I don't play tanks.

[Squally160]

TygerLily, on 16 November 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

I like this sort of idea as well. While R&R is inappropriate for the non-Community Warfare, I think it could add a fun element especially if it played similarly to how Sug suggested.

I think if there was a higher Cbill income that accounted for the R&R then it would be unnoticeable for your income as a whole, however, very good games with minimal damage or very bad games with total wipes, would be reflected in getting the gear back up and running (or enjoying the spoils).

I think limiting Houses to lore units and giving free R&R is a good dea.

Giving Mercs R&R that comes from the coffers (Mechs broke for CW? Gotta head to the public queue and then donate to the coffer!)

Lone Wolf, pays for R&R but at a much, much lower rate than Mercs.

For LW and Mercs, you could even give them a discount depending on the faction they are currently fighting for and/or repairing and rearming Mech particular to that faction.

R&R Really only works in CW if we can salvage what we kill. And since they ahve said no mixtech yet, it wont work IMHO.

It needs to stay out of puglandia entirely.

[Sandpit]

Vassago Rain, on 16 November 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

That's kinda the point of videogames, Sandpit. Are you saying that we MUST put up with mindless grinding in the ghetto to afford to run in the totally awesome and exclusive CW mode?

Because that just sounds like world of tanks to me, and it's one of many reasons I don't play tanks.

No, I'm saying some of us want a more challenging game play style. Those that don't want it are free to play it just as they always have. CW is the hardcore mode for those that want a more challenging game. If you don't like that you're more than welcome to play in the "easy" section of the game. That's what I'm saying.

You don't want a challenge, that's great. You and the others like you have your game modes. You've had exactly what you want, now it's time for you and them to stop telling those that want a more challenging game "No, because not only do I want to play in the pub matches and have an easier time, I want CW to be easier as well because that's the only way that I enjoy the game so you should be forced to play it that way as well"

Squally160, on 16 November 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

R&R Really only works in CW if we can salvage what we kill. And since they ahve said no mixtech yet, it wont work IMHO.

It needs to stay out of puglandia entirely.

just because you can't equip clan tech on your IS mech doesn't mean you can't salvage it. You either stockpile it until mixed tech becomes available or sell it for extra cbills.

[Kassatsu]

Sadly, the c-bill sink is now consumables, and no longer a required risk/investment. R&R is likely never happening again, with the only possible (and extremely unlikely) exception being CW.

[Brody319]

Sandpit, on 16 November 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

No, I'm saying some of us want a more challenging game play style. Those that don't want it are free to play it just as they always have. CW is the hardcore mode for those that want a more challenging game. If you don't like that you're more than welcome to play in the "easy" section of the game. That's what I'm saying.

You don't want a challenge, that's great. You and the others like you have your game modes. You've had exactly what you want, now it's time for you and them to stop telling those that want a more challenging game "No, because not only do I want to play in the pub matches and have an easier time, I want CW to be easier as well because that's the only way that I enjoy the game so you should be forced to play it that way as well"

The fact that CW allows trials, has a low drop cost, and isn't locked behind a pay wall means its for everyone. They even allow solo drops together. CW will not be this huge ******* Role playing experience you people keep saying it will be. It will essentially be a new game mode with respawns.that is it.

If you wanna make the game harder then play harder chassis.