131 replies to this topic

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Rezn876, on 17 November 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:

In reference to what?

In reference to this game never being an E-sport.

Won't happen, not with the population as is. The active player population would need to increase around ten fold for it to even think about being an E-sport.

There are currently more players playing CS1.6 right now (middle of the night) than logged into MWO at its peak hours. And CS1.6 is over a decade old and is still considered a Gold Standard of E-sports.

[Mavairo]

Yeah...not gonna happen.
MWO isn't Starcraft.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 17 November 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

I'm not saying there aren't hyper-competitive people out there that aren't good sports about the whole deal. But generally speaking, in other games with an e-sports focus, if you aren't winning almost all the time there seems to be this stigma against those players. Just because they're not good enough to have a great W/L or K/D as everyone else doesn't give you the right to insult or treat them like trash.

I've had that happen here. Back when poptarting was a thing, I swore against it myself. It just seemed boring and stale to me, I was very vocal about it to. Someone in game responded to me saying "you say that just because you're garbage and don't know how to play."

..excuse me?

Just because I don't want to conform to some competitive mentality just to win doesn't make me a garbage player.

This is what I'm trying to convey, if I've been confusing. I'm afraid an e-sport focus on MWO will create a large shift in that negative mentality. That is the absolute LAST BLOODY THING this game needs right now, considering so many people are already so negative about its future based on PGI's track record.

reminds me of

[Sigilum Sanctum]

I won't even lie, that was me some games in my Shadowhawks and Stalkers.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 17 November 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

In reference to this game never being an E-sport.

Won't happen, not with the population as is. The active player population would need to increase around ten fold for it to even think about being an E-sport.

There are currently more players playing CS1.6 right now (middle of the night) than logged into MWO at its peak hours. And CS1.6 is over a decade old and is still considered a Gold Standard of E-sports.

How do you feel about it though? I mean, i want this game to have the recognition i believe it deserve. I feel its a shame games like MWO cant be seen for a higher potential then a few years of niche playing like the other MW games. Which as i said before are not better BT games IMO. and ya i played them within the last 6 months just to be sure

This game is intense. Anyone who has felt it KNOWS. And anyone who tries to bring a friend in also knows, its SO SO worth it if you get past that hump. Like learning to play guitar or something. The reward is there already, we just need more people playing along. A large pool of new people to play new people. I dont think the values of this game need to be compromised to see this

[Moonlander]

e-Sport? LOL

If you consider the MWO "competitive" teams to be on the same level as the players of real e-Sport titles...then that's even funnier. At best, these"competitive" teams are pure cheese but they think they're good because they dominate in a extremely tiny playerbase,

Put them up against a well known competitive player or group of competitive players and they would get slaughtered at their own game. I wish we could arrange something like this... then we could laugh as we watch all those inflated ego's deflate when they realize they can't actually play competitively....

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

Moonlander, on 17 November 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

e-Sport? LOL

If you consider the MWO "competitive" teams to be on the same level as the players of real e-Sport titles...then that's even funnier. At best, these"competitive" teams are pure cheese but they think they're good because they dominate in a extremely tiny playerbase,

Put them up against a well known competitive player or group of competitive players and they would get slaughtered at their own game. I wish we could arrange something like this... then we could laugh as we watch all those inflated ego's deflate when they realize they can't actually play competitively....

So you agree with me? You wish to see this game grow?

[Adiuvo]

Moonlander, on 17 November 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

e-Sport? LOL

If you consider the MWO "competitive" teams to be on the same level as the players of real e-Sport titles...then that's even funnier. At best, these"competitive" teams are pure cheese but they think they're good because they dominate in a extremely tiny playerbase,

Put them up against a well known competitive player or group of competitive players and they would get slaughtered at their own game. I wish we could arrange something like this... then we could laugh as we watch all those inflated ego's deflate when they realize they can't actually play competitively....

Someone sounds jealous.

Sigilum Sanctum, on 17 November 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:

I can count the number of times on my hands on how many Awesome I have see in game before the quirk pass. Now? I see them almost every other game, and they're effective and scary and its great. This is happening with other mechs too.

Competitive players want more mechs to be viable. This is a good thing across the board.

It's the people who pilot mechs purely for nostalgia reasons that can get in the way of balance, and often do.

BTW all of you people who are saying that MWO never will have potential as an esport obviously paid no attention to MW4. Competitive play was massive in that game with multiple player made leagues. Their games were even broadcast on G4 back in the day...

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 17 November 2014 - 11:10 PM, said:

I won't even lie, that was me some games in my Shadowhawks and Stalkers.

That video kills me. I cant even watch it all at once or ill die. But do you think theyll make a video like this for the quirks

[Arkbird_]

Rezn876, on 17 November 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

So you agree with me? You wish to see this game grow?

They already kind of did a mini esport thing like this with all the big teams in MWO. It wasn't very good (the event not the players, I woe the day I meet them in CW with my derp pug brethren) . The commentators spent more time trying to figure out how to work the spectator camera than they did actually commentating. Was hardly that entertaining, and I bet you didn't even know they did this? It was in May this year, not even 6 months ago. Sorry but it's not as exciting as you would think. Most videos barely broke 1000 views. Not quite the publicity one would hope for Just listen to the commentators and you tell me if they got you pumped... Not much happens every second to commentate on, they just kind of have to ramble a bit and it was so boring I gave up after like 5 matches, then tried to watch the finals and even then wasn't very interested.

Youtube search "Mechwarrior Online invitational tournament" and you'll find a match 4th option down then related links from there will be the tournament games. It's uploaded by the official mechwarrior online channel. There are a LOT of games so if e sports are your thing go nuts. You can get your MWO esport fix there and understand why it doesn't really work for this game.

Maybe later if they add a solaris arena FFA it might be interesting but even then what fun is there if the winner is the guy that hid in a corner with duo gauss until 1 other guy remained with a crit CT and he one shots him? This franchise in general just isn't e sports material.

Edited by PV Phoenix, 17 November 2014 - 11:30 PM.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

Jakob Knight, on 17 November 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

The point is, if MWO were what it should have always been, that Jenner should also die almost every time unless it is the -Atlas- that makes a very poor play. That the Jenner can reasonably come out on top in a direct fight is the result of the devs not wanting the Atlas to have the ability to kill the Jenner in one shot as it was supposed to be (go back and fight the battle in the original material. A single AC/20 hit was doom for a Jenner). And, with the average capabilities of both mechs, that hit was a better than even chance of happening whenever the Jenner got into range to use it's own weapons.

This was done in MWO in the name of 'fairness' so Light mech pilots -could- take on Assault mechs on even terms. Something that no Light mech pilot in Battletech would have even attempted with a competent pilot in charge of the Assault mech.

How else would you have it in a simulator like this? Your not controlling a lance or two, just your own mech. No reason to make the jenner gimped. Theres really no comparison. I feel light mechs make sense in this game more so then even mw4, which is a better comparison.

[Moonlander]

Adiuvo, on 17 November 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

Someone sounds jealous.


Competitive players want more mechs to be viable. This is a good thing across the board.

It's the people who pilot mechs purely for nostalgia reasons that can get in the way of balance, and often do.

BTW all of you people who are saying that MWO never will have potential as an esport obviously paid no attention to MW4. Competitive play was massive in that game with multiple player made leagues. Their games were even broadcast on G4 back in the day...

Jealous? Hardly! This is just a game I play when the season is over in the game I play competitively or when my friends are done for the night. Without tooting my own horn, but tooting my own horn, let me know when you hold Gladiator for 11 straight seasons and stay in the top .5% out of 7 million players. Not to mention, I just spent 3 days in Burbank for the 2014 Arena Championships. So yeah, I'm super jealous. Especially since I walked home with a check for $2500 for coming in 8th place with my team. Sure it's not first but who cares. Of course, I expect people to be like "cool story breh" or "pix or it didn't happen" so you can just have my btag. Lunalander#1459 and then you can see for yourself.

Oh, I just saw your signature. Don't feel bad, you're considered good in this unrecognized game where you guys are free to be absolutely vile to pugs and the "bad" playerbase.

ggclose

amidoonitrit?

Edited by Moonlander, 17 November 2014 - 11:39 PM.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

PV Phoenix, on 17 November 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

They already kind of did a mini esport thing like this with all the big teams in MWO. It wasn't very good (the event not the players, I woe the day I meet them in CW with my derp pug brethren) . The commentators spent more time trying to figure out how to work the spectator camera than they did actually commentating. Was hardly that entertaining, and I bet you didn't even know they did this? It was in May this year, not even 6 months ago. Sorry but it's not as exciting as you would think. Most videos barely broke 1000 views. Not quite the publicity one would hope for Just listen to the commentators and you tell me if they got you pumped... Not much happens every second to commentate on, they just kind of have to ramble a bit and it was so boring I gave up after like 5 matches, then tried to watch the finals and even then wasn't very interested.

Youtube search "Mechwarrior Online invitational tournament" and you'll find a match 4th option down then related links from there will be the tournament games. It's uploaded by the official mechwarrior online channel. There are a LOT of games so if e sports are your thing go nuts. You can get your MWO esport fix there and understand why it doesn't really work for this game.

Maybe later if they add a solaris arena FFA it might be interesting but even then what fun is there if the winner is the guy that hid in a corner with duo gauss until 1 other guy remained with a crit CT and he one shots him? This franchise in general just isn't e sports material.

Yes as ive said before this games has an accessibility problem. I have seen some commented videos before and sure they could present the game and commentary better, but that is no flaw to the game or match that took place. The people making the video need more experience. That aside, ive felt the same watching startcraft championship games. not being at the level made it confusing even though im well aware how to play. HOWEVER, its still epic to watch. How many of you rememeber the transition as kid, where you starting understanding and enjoying watching a sport, perhaps one you never played?

[Adiuvo]

Moonlander, on 17 November 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

Jealous? Hardly! This is just a game I play when the season is over in the game I play competitively or when my friends are done for the night. Without tooting my own horn, but tooting my own horn, let me know when you hold Gladiator for 11 straight seasons and stay in the top .5% out of 7 million players. Not to mention, I just spent 3 days in Burbank for the 2014 Arena Championships. So yeah, I'm super jealous. Especially since I walked home with a check for $2500 for coming in 8th place with my team. Sure it's not first but who cares. Of course, I expect people to be like "cool story breh" or "pix or it didn't happen" so you can just have my btag. Lunalander#1459 and then you can see for yourself.

Oh, I just saw your signature. Don't feel bad, you're considered good in this unrecognized game where you guys are free to be absolutely vile to pugs and the "bad" playerbase.

ggclose

amidoonitrit?

Yep confirmed for jealous.

Thanks for the life story.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

Moonlander, on 17 November 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

Jealous? Hardly! This is just a game I play when the season is over in the game I play competitively or when my friends are done for the night. Without tooting my own horn, but tooting my own horn, let me know when you hold Gladiator for 11 straight seasons and stay in the top .5% out of 7 million players. Not to mention, I just spent 3 days in Burbank for the 2014 Arena Championships. So yeah, I'm super jealous. Especially since I walked home with a check for $2500 for coming in 8th place with my team. Sure it's not first but who cares. Of course, I expect people to be like "cool story breh" or "pix or it didn't happen" so you can just have my btag. Lunalander#1459 and then you can see for yourself.

Oh, I just saw your signature. Don't feel bad, you're considered good in this unrecognized game where you guys are free to be absolutely vile to pugs and the "bad" playerbase.

ggclose

amidoonitrit?

Im still confused as to how you feel about the growth of this game

[Moonlander]

Adiuvo, on 17 November 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

Yep confirmed for jealous.

Thanks for the life story.

Anytime, I always like to provide valuable information.

I should also thank you for the confirmation that you guys are twats.

[TygerLily]

Kyle Wright, on 17 November 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

...more money for PGI and that mean a bigger development team. And most importantly bigger prize giveaways for these weekend events in general. Possible sale on promotional items from sponsors... Just saying. Just because it goes e-sport doesnt mean you have to too.

While I see where Kyle is coming from, unless the eSport crowd is separate from the casual crowd then any movement toward competitive is further from what - I'd venture to say - most really want...to play, as MWO labels itself, a Battletech Game. IMO, it's all mixed in...like college basketball players building a minor reputation by smashing pick up games at the local park...

We're sorta talking about this on OutreachHPG.

There I similarly commented, that currently balance favors competitiveness. For example, Griffin are a better brawler than a Kintaro due to hiboxes and thus they got SRM quirks. That makes perfect sense for competition but when the SRM brawler is supposed to be the Kintaro schtick and the Griffin's focus is LRMs...it makes no sense for Battletech. YES, Griffin's the better brawler, I understand that.

I know that "don't sacrifice lore for gameplay" is heresy...and I mostly agree. But only in the current environment.

But then, why make MWO a Battletech game? Just create an original IP - grant yourself absolute freedom....freedom from things like needing 10 engine HS therefore making all your Light Mechs/Hercs/Frames/Whatev 100% competitive. Freedom from canonical hardpoints. Freedom from making certain weapons, certain weights, etc.

What you sacrifice in "brand" you can make up for in building an eSport and making bank on PvP, sponsors, etc.

luxebo, on 17 November 2014 - 09:13 PM, said:

Solaris aka Deathmatch is basically e-sports. Would be just like MWLL/Heavy Gear/etc.

That or basically no. Will not settle for E-sports Warfare over Community Warfare.

I think THIS would be the best way to ensure the eSport aspect has a future. Create a space for ultracompetitiveness. The "Solaris" world is the perfect concept! Break the BT canon rules in this area, keep the lower TTK (in relation to most shooters) and gameplay staples, etc...but make the Solaris world some sort of opt-in experience full of ladders, regular high reward tournaments, etc.

My unit labels itself competitive too and I love the current competitive scene for what it is and have a lot of fun with it and the friends and peers I've met there. But sometimes I wish I could just play an FPS of Battletech. Change the mechanics, make **** inefficient, keep the nonsensical stuff from lore that translates, drop the nonsense that doesn't...RNG weapons, cones of fire, keep the Elo separations. Put all the nerdy ******* roleplay junk in the "Classic" queue. Build "Community Warfare" there where it belongs and build a true eSport in Solaris where it belongs.

That's my tl;dr diatribe...for what it's worth.

[Adiuvo]

Moonlander, on 17 November 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

Anytime, I always like to provide valuable information.

I should also thank you for the confirmation that you guys are twats.

The best part about this is that I didn't even insult you at all.

[Moonlander]

Rezn876, on 17 November 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

Im still confused as to how you feel about the growth of this game

I feel it would be good but with the type of vile and toxic playerbase we have, as Adiuvo has so clearly displayed for us, it's unlikely people would stick around. The more people, the better.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

TygerLily, on 17 November 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

While I see where Kyle is coming from, unless the eSport crowd is separate from the casual crowd then any movement toward competitive is further from what - I'd venture to say - most really want...to play, as MWO labels itself, a Battletech Game. IMO, it's all mixed in...like college basketball players building a minor reputation by smashing pick up games at the local park...

We're sorta talking about this on OutreachHPG.

There I similarly commented, that currently balance favors competitiveness. For example, Griffin are a better brawler than a Kintaro due to hiboxes and thus they got SRM quirks. That makes perfect sense for competition but when the SRM brawler is supposed to be the Kintaro schtick and the Griffin's focus is LRMs...it makes no sense for Battletech. YES, Griffin's the better brawler, I understand that.

I know that "don't sacrifice lore for gameplay" is heresy...and I mostly agree. But only in the current environment.

But then, why make MWO a Battletech game? Just create an original IP - grant yourself absolute freedom....freedom from things like needing 10 engine HS therefore making all your Light Mechs/Hercs/Frames/Whatev 100% competitive. Freedom from canonical hardpoints. Freedom from making certain weapons, certain weights, etc.

What you sacrifice in "brand" you can make up for in building an eSport and making bank on PvP, sponsors, etc.



I think THIS would be the best way to ensure the eSport aspect has a future. Create a space for ultracompetitiveness. The "Solaris" world is the perfect concept! Break the BT canon rules in this area, keep the lower TTK (in relation to most shooters) and gameplay staples, etc...but make the Solaris world some sort of opt-in experience full of ladders, regular high reward tournaments, etc.

My unit labels itself competitive too and I love the current competitive scene for what it is and have a lot of fun with it and the friends and peers I've met there. But sometimes I wish I could just play an FPS of Battletech. Change the mechanics, make **** inefficient, keep the nonsensical stuff from lore that translates, drop the nonsense that doesn't...RNG weapons, cones of fire, keep the Elo separations. Put all the nerdy ******* roleplay junk in the "Classic" queue. Build "Community Warfare" there where it belongs and build a true eSport in Solaris where it belongs.

That's my tl;dr diatribe...for what it's worth.

I suppose being able to think of all the ways this game can be stretched and morphed really shows its potential. Or the potential of the IP? either way, I feel alot of the BT video games fall very short of what "true" BT is because its not made for real time per se. I do like the idea but how? MechCommander was more bland about what weapons you would ultimately take. It didnt even track heat. I would love to see something like you described, but for now i beleive MWO has taken the IP the furthest in all ways compared to the past.

And it would be nice to have a solo arena where you could wager cbills and have friends watch but ooooooooo the drama and perhaps potential exploits