496 replies to this topic

[Mazikar]

Yoseful Mallad, on 04 December 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

yet I still use 2 AC-20s on a K-2 and fire them together and can manage the heat. Now give me a 100 ton mech that i can cram in even more DHS... Ill have no problems what so ever

Yet before ghost heat it was more than easy to pull it off, I ran a 7/1 kdr with over 600 matches under my belt with that mech. Sure you can still cram them in but honestly it is not a workable setup, ghostheat ruined it. If there is more than one mech fighting you.... you are going to die. There will always be that game where idiots line up one by one to peak over the pile of dead team mates to see what killed them but the other 90% of the time a spider will run circles around you till you die.


I'm sure there will be a quirk for the crab, if their isn't it will be a slower Atlas without ecm. Not that Atlases suck, I do pretty darn good with mine even still.

[100 Tonne]

they need an armour buff. Similar to the original (first) buffs the hunchback an awesome got. (these got wiped a replaced with other buffs)

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

i still find atlases to be decent chassis on the field (haven't used mine in a while but i see people performing really well in them still) obviously there not going to out put the same DPS as a dire wolf but they have other advantages with the ability to switch out engines for higher ratings the atlas can move faster then the dire whale not to forget that some atlases have CT hard points and it can still fight with all of its weapons destroyed, again doesn't sound like much but its better then having both side torso ripped of and being useless or dead

[pwnface]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Some made the point that the Atlas is potentially stronger under 300 meters. Its true that is in favour of the Atlas.

Atlas being superior under 300 meters could potentially completely balance the two out if the Atlas was alot faster than the Dire Wolf carrying an standard engine and with that successfull load out.

Having the shorter range advantage coupled with slower movement speed is the deal breaker.

To find the balance the question is what speed can an Atlas go and still win a short range staring contest with a well equipped experienced none afk Dire Wolf.

Please dont mention torso twist when this reply is about a Atlas standing toe to toe with a Dire Wolf at around 300 meters.

Dude, which atlas is running slower than a dire wolf? All the atlas pilots I know run at least a STD340 which is much faster than a Dire. Fighting toe to toe in a 1v1 doesn't mean just staring at each other and shooting. Why would a staring contest DPS race be relevant when no decent Atlas pilots would do that against an enemy mech? Every post you make, makes you look more foolish.

[Johnny Z]

Piney, on 04 December 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

Quote Function Inoperative.................

Johnny Z:

"This and Hero mechs and the queue not being assault heavy since Omni mech tech has been added is why this topic is so relevant to game play balance. Are the two 100 tonners balanced or not and can the soon to be added 100 tonner have a chance on the field. The answer, it will be brutal for the 100 ton King Crab with none mastery and less than maxed modules."

It won't be an easy ride............but it's a free mech. I plan to just have fun with mine to get the basics leveled. If I decide I have a future with it, I'll pick up the other 2 variants when they're released.

One thing is certain - interesting times will be upon us when the Crab is released.

Well some would not consider a feeding frenzy to be "fun" most likely the Crab mech you mentioned.

[AlmightyAeng]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

This is worthy of an NGNG comic. Made me laugh picturing an 100 ton Atlas tip toeing around the battlefield stealthing Direwolves hahaha. Not to mention it isnt an 100 ton assault mechs role to do that on a more serius note.

The worthiness of said comic may be the first thing you've said about Atlases we agree on, lol.

As far as "not it's role." Aren't you the one arguing that Atlases do more than just brawl?

I'd say that the MOST effective role for an Atlas is a D-DC sneaky fat ninja, sneaking OTHER brawlers under its bigass ninja pants.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 04 December 2014 - 02:47 PM.

[Piney II]

We'll see in a few days, Johnny.

[AlmightyAeng]

Void Angel, on 04 December 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Jumps visual spotting and enemy positioning, allowing you unlimited ability to get to knife-range? No, if they're poorly positioned so you can get right up on them, they're doing it wrong - and either situation has no place in a balance discussion.

If you're discussing the viability and balance of one chassis vs. another, carrying a Jesus box and the implications of its utility 100% belongs in a balance discussion. The D-DC was my first mech. It can do lots of things, but using its ecm to take itself and other brawlers into your flank and f*ck sh*t up in your backfield is incredibly effective. "Unlimited ability?" No. Not unlimited. But it makes it infinitely easier, and pulling it off doesn't require your opponents be morons.

If you're arguing which one would explode first if they bumped uglies at a stationary 100m as a means of balance then YOU are the one setting up unrealistic battle situations.

Void Angel, on 04 December 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Read the original post to which I was responding - I would suggest trying to understand it, rather than just skimming to generate talking points for a one-liner.

Sure thing. You said:

Quote

You are assuming that you have the flanking advantage. This is wrong, when we're talking about balance. If you get yourself up to the Starebear without significant damage and open up on it first, you sure can kill it - but if he's paying a modicum of attention and sees you coming, he can simply back away and stare you to death.

You are implying that ability to take ECM into the fight and the way it enhances an Atlas' ability to flank doesn't relate to balance.

I think you are wrong. It's essential to the balance discussion. The fact that I only NEEDED one line to make that point is not relevant. There is NO WORLD in which the utility of ECM doesn't effect the optimal strategy for using said mech. Period.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 04 December 2014 - 02:56 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Well I see the troll factor has gone off the charts.

[Lexx]

pwnface, on 04 December 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Dude, which atlas is running slower than a dire wolf? All the atlas pilots I know run at least a STD340 which is much faster than a Dire. Fighting toe to toe in a 1v1 doesn't mean just staring at each other and shooting. Why would a staring contest DPS race be relevant when no decent Atlas pilots would do that against an enemy mech? Every post you make, makes you look more foolish.

7.1 KPH is "much faster" and worth giving up almost 20 tons of weapons for?

[Johnny Z]

Piney, on 04 December 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

We'll see in a few days, Johnny.

Hey looking forward to it. Everyone knows I dont mind a good fight.

[AlmightyAeng]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Well I see the troll factor has gone off the charts.

Disagreeing with you isn't trolling. Shouting "Nuh uh!" while not presenting a valid argument is trolling...though it's low-brow and poorly done.

Forum harder.

[Lightfoot]

Well the Atlas is much tougher, just not to the fire-power a Dire Wolf can bring so you send your wolves and ankle-biters after the Dire-Wolf in a pack and your LRM support after the Atlas so they can range it.


Basically each team has to protect the Assaults from being focused on so they can keep the benefit of it's offense. The Dire Wolf is such a fat target. Those assaults are all great in a herd, but weak alone.

[Johnny Z]

Ghost Badger, on 04 December 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Disagreeing with you isn't trolling. Shouting "Nuh uh!" while not presenting a valid argument is trolling...though it's low-brow and poorly done.

Forum harder.

Well said. I couldnt agree more.

[B0oN]

How about getting some pilots in that mech that dont drive their first 25 matches ?

[Void Angel]

Ghost Badger, on 04 December 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

If you're discussing the viability and balance of one chassis vs. another, carrying a Jesus box and the implications of its utility 100% belongs in a balance discussion. The D-DC was my first mech. It can do lots of things, but using its ecm to take itself and other brawlers into your flank and f*ck sh*t up in your backfield is incredibly effective. "Unlimited ability?" No. Not unlimited. But it makes it infinitely easier, and pulling it off doesn't require your opponents be morons.

If you're arguing which one would explode first if they bumped uglies at a stationary 100m as a means of balance then YOU are the one setting up unrealistic battle situations.



Sure thing. You said:



You are implying that ability to take ECM into the fight and the way it enhances an Atlas' ability to flank doesn't relate to balance.

I think you are wrong. It's essential to the balance discussion. The fact that I only NEEDED one line to make that point is not relevant. There is NO WORLD in which the utility of ECM doesn't effect the optimal strategy for using said mech. Period.

Or, you could simply skim and generate more talking points as I asked you not to do - misrepresenting my position and refusing to look at the actual context of my responses. You are a sloppy reasoner, and your thought is consequently invalid. What, for example, is the difference between "unlimited ability" to accomplish something, and making the same task "infinitely easier?" If you cannot actually deal with my points in their proper context, or even string together thoughts in a coherent manner, you've already lost.

[Deathlike]

Lexx, on 04 December 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

7.1 KPH is "much faster" and worth giving up almost 20 tons of weapons for?

While it is probably "not enough", but what loadout would give the Atlas any decided advantage over a Dire Wolf?

Speed is always an advantage over a Dire Wolf however little an increase it may be.

Dire Wolves take time to position themselves for optimal facetime firepower.

Atlases have enough "mobility" to shield itself and get into position... despite being massively slow.

There is no "long range Atlas" build to beat the Dire Wolf at ANY level...

If you're not playing to the mech's strengths, you are doing it wrong.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 December 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

atlas is meant for a different type of role as a dire wolf.

dire wolf is like the new stalker.

my awesome can take a dire wolf head on by just spreading dmg and going around it

atlas can stomp my awesome if it focuses me down and never backs down, it pays to have nerves of steel when i am shooting you.

but the atlas is weak at a distance, but the dire whale is also weak at a distance, so....

dire wolf only has a small ranges where it is superbly strong and full dakka, and it is like 500-600 or inside a tunnel where it cant be flanked.


once they get in srm range they are toast, but also past 800 meters they are not truly effective because multiple erppc will find their armor soon and they have to hold the slugs on you.|

so get some er ppc on yoru atlas arms and learn to fight at long range as well as close range.


if i can take the dire wolf in my awesome at both super close and super long ranges, then what is your excuse?

believe me i 100% swear, get at least 2 erppc and shoot em with the visual zoom module at 1000-1400 meter the dire wolf has no answer.
only the gauss builds do


my take on this is that if you put the gauss with case, erppc in the arm of your atlas and some srm you can be an all range fighter, just make sure you keep in mind your cockpit is high up, but peeking with the arm is a good choice

Edited by Mazzyplz, 04 December 2014 - 03:27 PM.

[Water Bear]

Void Angel, on 04 December 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

At maximum, that's an 11kph difference. Now, say it takes two minutes for the team to move to contact - this is not always the case, but call it an average. You're only going to be about 366 meters behind the Atlas in your lance. That's a whole 2.45 seconds behind - but still well within the engagement range of your weapons. And that's with the maximum engine on that Atlas; for a more typical 3500 or 325 engine, the differences (8.9kph and 4.4kph respectively) approach negligibility.

For some reason, people think a 5-10 kph speed difference matters. I'm glad you did the math, that shows it better than anything. 10 kph in MWO is so slow that you can hardly tell you're moving.

Edit: I just read your post on the previous page. I'm repeating myself here.

Edited by Water Bear, 04 December 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Im just glad we havent heard the "Omni mechs are supposed to be more powerfull and better in every way" arguement given so often like it makes sense or is valid lol.

The desperate reaching for intangibles for an arguement that the Atlas and Direwolf are balanced is so much more entertaining.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 December 2014 - 03:36 PM.