496 replies to this topic

[GumbyC2C]

Thanks for the (bad) advice OP, but my Atlas is doing just fine.

[Johnny Z]

I have seen it all in this topic, from Atlases are support mechs to they should be battlefield ninjas sneaking up behind Direwolves to have a chance at winning. Hilarious stuff really.

[Mister Blastman]

Take a wubshee instead.

[Kiiyor]

Moonlander, on 04 December 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

You should really consider a BNC-3E. I can pull 1k+ every drop for the most part... with ease too and I'm far from any sort of skilled pilot... much easier than I can in a DWF... but it could be because I suck in a DWF? It's just one of those things really. I can punch out a DWFs gauss rifles with relatively no effort with the 3xAC5+4xMPL and then take out the torsos after he's weaponless... or just take out the torsos if I'm able to expose myself. I don't think it's superior tho...

I think this is a big part of it - different players do well in different mechs. I kick ass in Jagers, and surprisingly, BlackJacks - and I completely suck at many of the 'Sphere mechs that are considered meta. When the 'Phract was king of the heavies, I piloted it about as well as an epileptic who had just won the lotto, and was lucky to break 200 dmg consistently.

Sometimes a mech just fits. I used to be that way in the Awesome - my KDR was around 3 in it after a few K matches.

I can totally get on board with people doing better in not-DireWolf assaults, but I think that subset of the population is much smaller than the subset that consistently load up with outrageous dakka and leave a dropship's worth of robot corpses behind them.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I kinda like the idea of Battlefield Ninjas though! But real ninjas wouldn't need ECM



And the thought of Atlas mechs sneaking about the map reading a barrage of AC/20 SRM Fury to assassinate other mechs is kinda funny with how slow they are, and with their stomping and their walking animation, almost makes it even more epic when there's a successful surprise attack or flank made by them.

[Karl Marlow]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 December 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

And would fill the slot a Devastator is meant to fill!

An Altas doesn't have the balls to replace Devastator.

[Jungle Rhino]

Now just to be clear I'm a terrible Atlas pilot - just cannot make them work. I'm much more comfortable in something with speed BUT.

This game is not an Atlas vs DW contest. I think it can be argued that an Atlas with superior instantaneous frontload damage could be a better choice against fleeting or fast moving targets. Both of which are common in MWO.

Yes an Atlas will drop in a head on fight with a Direwhale - because a 100T mech that clocks 60-70 kph is not well equipped to exploit the weaknesses of the DW - i.e. speed and arcs.

They are quite different beasts really.

[Sarlic]

Lefty Lucy, on 04 December 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Even post-quirk, piloting an Atlas simply puts your team at a huge disadvantage because you're taking up a Direwolf slot.

But, you say, "Atlases can outbrawl direwolves!"

Let's assume that this statement is true (it's not), brawling range is 270 meters for an atlas with AC20 and SRMs. I will admit that this is by far the best way to run an atlas. However, the combination of slow speed and short range means you don't really get to engage in your effective range unless you have an entire team that's willing to back you up. This is compounded by the fact that UAC direwolves out-DPS atlases at all ranges regardless of build.

So let's say you want to build an atlas that can fight back. That means equipping ranged weapons in low-slung torso and arm hardpoints, or filling your missile hardpoints with LRMs. LRM assaults put the team at a disadvantage because you're wasting your high armor capacity, and the low-slung hardpoints mean you pretty much always get the second shot, or no shot at all, against targets engaging from range, and you can't use cover effectively.

Atlases simply have no effective role in this game when compared to a Direwolf taking the same spot.

Reporting in. Die hard Atlas pilot here.
Currently owning almost 10 of these wonderfull looking chassis.

http://mwomercs.com/...more-attention/

I already have started a thread while back ago.

I agree with you. I am doing pretty fine, but it's getting harder and harder with new mechs arriving.

The whole line up of the Atlas feels outdated.
Does not say i am a particulary bad pilot, but the Atlas still does not feel complete. Currently i feel people does not bother the Atlas anymore since the HP and speed/armor does not add up anymore.

The Direwolf and in some cases even the Timberwolf outplays easily the Atlas. Lore-based the Direwolf DOES outplay the Atlas, but the Atlas should be a damage soaker more supportive. Not a dealer. The Direwolf should be 'less tanky'. Hard to eplain but i hope people get it.

I can take Direwolfs down, but it costs me too much armor most of the time i can twist, costs my main cannon. Unfortunatly the main cannon is still too disabled soon within a few(!!) single hits. Even a normal MG can take the main cannon out with ease.

Koniving, on 29 November 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

It's not the armor. It's the pinpoint front-loaded damage combined with a lot of mechs now being even FASTER at it!

Like Koniving says the problem is probaly the pinpoint damage. In most cases the Atlas loses one arm before the ST is being blown off (or the main cannon is hit by PP long range damage thus disabling it earlier in the game). Twisting does matter, but overall compared; the damage soaking ability is missing right here.

Bottomline: The Atlas deserves more attention.

Edited by Sarlic, 05 December 2014 - 12:06 AM.

[Mobile Ordnance Platform]

+1 time for atlas to get some love

torso twist speed buff
side torso armor buff
at the very least

[Johnny Z]

Jungle Rhino, on 04 December 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

Now just to be clear I'm a terrible Atlas pilot - just cannot make them work. I'm much more comfortable in something with speed BUT.

This game is not an Atlas vs DW contest. I think it can be argued that an Atlas with superior instantaneous frontload damage could be a better choice against fleeting or fast moving targets. Both of which are common in MWO.

Yes an Atlas will drop in a head on fight with a Direwhale - because a 100T mech that clocks 60-70 kph is not well equipped to exploit the weaknesses of the DW - i.e. speed and arcs.

They are quite different beasts really.

I think very few want them to be clones including me but they are both the 100 tonners of the two techs. Both are expected to hold the line as all assaults are while mediums and lights do the flanking and heavies throw their weight where its needed.

An Atlas as they are today can effectively do that by not peeking and waiting around a corner, its no joke it would work fine but the abilities of the Dire Wolf are much greater than that, and thats the problem.

They both perform the same roles for their respective techs period.

Theres a good chance Mechwarrior Online has the most complicated combat out there and balancing so many variables isnt easy. So this isnt about complaining its about letting each pilot in their chosen mech have fun and a fair shake.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 December 2014 - 12:01 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

CW doesn't "solve" the problem, it just means that the IS doesn't have a 100-tonner that can compete, or that IS drop decks will rarely include atlases.

[Mcgral18]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

This is worthy of an NGNG comic. Made me laugh picturing an 100 ton Atlas tip toeing around the battlefield stealthing Direwolves hahaha. Not to mention it isnt an 100 ton assault mechs role to do that on a more serius note.

I'm not sure you understood the statement. He means don't stare at him while your weapons are recycling (as you would with UACs or lower caliber ACs) but to torso twist. As in, don't stare at him when you don't need to.

It works wonderfully, if case you didn't know.

Kiiyor, on 04 December 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm not entirely sold. I've mastered the lot of those, except for the WubShee, and in my experience, (not sayin' it's a fact) there are no mechs that can stand against a DireWolf, especially if it's rocking dual gauss. Even though it's ponderous and slow, I've never had any mech as easy to dominate with.

If i'm in a DireWolf, I fear no mech you listed.

I can say the same thing in a WubShee. I used a Whale, got it basic'ed and...haven't touched it since. Things too damned slow. 75 lets you get into the fight and Wub things fast. Kill things fast. Get from cover to cover, and twist/turn 14 degrees per second faster than Whales.

I fear no Whale in the WubShee; I only need to find them, and Wub them.

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

You cant be serious and this must be a troll reply. 7 kill matches were almost standard for the Dire Wolf pre quirks and they still post a good score every match unless the guy is afk or they throw the match. This has been going on for months.

Since when has it been the norm for Atlases to post amazing match scores?

I'm going to call BS here. I've gotten 9 kills in a WubShee. I've gotten 9 kills in a Whale. Neither are the norm. ~4 could be a reasonable norm. But 6+ every other match? BS.



Shall I post my WubShee Top Pics to 'prove' a point of some sort or another?
Of course, it's not an Atlas. Those are also too slow. No less than 70, with favourable hitboxes.

[Aresye]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

You cant be serious and this must be a troll reply. 7 kill matches were almost standard for the Dire Wolf pre quirks and they still post a good score every match unless the guy is afk or they throw the match. This has been going on for months.

Since when has it been the norm for Atlases to post amazing match scores?

A lot of those 7 kill matches are still under 800 damage. 800 damage for 7 kills is all kill shots due to extreme firepower.

On the other hand, I can average 800-1600 damage matches with 1-2 kills in a Timberwolf and (yes) even my Founders Catapult. Which mechs are really doing the work?

Dire Wolves are finishers, and (if need be) they can hold their own if (and only if) their opponent tries to face tank them. Aside from that, I've found DWs to be more of a liability in large groups.

[Johnny Z]

Mcgral18, on 05 December 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:

I'm not sure you understood the statement. He means don't stare at him while your weapons are recycling (as you would with UACs or lower caliber ACs) but to torso twist. As in, don't stare at him when you don't need to.

It works wonderfully, if case you didn't know.



I can say the same thing in a WubShee. I used a Whale, got it basic'ed and...haven't touched it since. Things too damned slow. 75 lets you get into the fight and Wub things fast. Kill things fast. Get from cover to cover, and twist/turn 14 degrees per second faster than Whales.

I fear no Whale in the WubShee; I only need to find them, and Wub them.



I'm going to call BS here. I've gotten 9 kills in a WubShee. I've gotten 9 kills in a Whale. Neither are the norm. ~4 could be a reasonable norm. But 6+ every other match? BS.



Shall I post my WubShee Top Pics to 'prove' a point of some sort or another?
Of course, it's not an Atlas. Those are also too slow. No less than 70, with favourable hitboxes.

I am going to ignore your great match references, I have had those to.

The extremely amazing match scores of Dire Wolves should not be in debate here since they have been doing it for months in 100's of matches with enough 7 kill matches to be worth mentioning and far from what anyone would call rare pre quirks.

On the torso twisting, if your suggesting an Atlas can torso twist in front of Direwolf and have a chance then you are full of it. An Atlas better be going full out fire power on that Direwolf or its over in seconds. An atlas torso twisting or what ever isnt going to be avoiding any of the fire that a Direwolf can put on it.

I get ct cored nearly every match in my Commando going 140 and twisting and evading, how is an Atlas supposed to torso twist to protect its ct?

I should mention also that I own Dire Wolves without fail in game with my assault. I lucked out by getting a STK because it wasnt humanoid and I wanted something different. It hill humps and no Dire Wolf will be standing in the open against it so its more of a stail mate than ownage but the point isnt about the Dire Wolf as much as its about the Atlas in this topic.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 December 2014 - 12:41 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Johnny Z, on 05 December 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

I am going to ignore your great match references, I have had those to.


On the torso twisting, if your suggesting an Atlas can torso twist in front of Direwolf and have a chance then you are full of it. An Atlas better be going full out fire power on that Direwolf or its over in seconds. An atlas torso twisting or what ever isnt going to be avoiding any of the fire that a Direwolf can put on it.

So, you can ignore mine, but yours are significant? Such logic.


A XL400 assault can twist damage well enough. I'm sure a STD engine mech can also do it, slower. You'll note that nearly all Clam weaponry spreads, Gauss aside. Fairly easy to take advantage of.

Do you not know how to twist properly?

[meteorol]

I played nothing but my Atlas from closed beta until the day the HGN was released. Countless hours every single day in nothing but an Atlas. I didn't even think of buying another mech until the HGN was released. I loved it and i still love it. Aside of the Jager and the Timber (and some Ilya experiment i don't want to talk about) i played nothing but assault mechs since closed beta.

I would never choose my Atlas over my DW in the current meta. Never.

The atlas has one, exactly one situation in which it "can" be better than the DW, which is facebrawling someone with the ac20/srm18 loadout. You can't force a brawl if your team doesn't go for it, which is some kind of lottery in the solo queue. You can't determine the flow of the battle with the atlas in the solo queue, you have to swim with it.
The DW easily wins every range other than facehugging combat over the atlas. Even at the range the atlas is pigeonholed to, the DW will deal brutal, probably crippling damage when the atlas ends up on top. (And that is if the atlas manages it to get into brawling range relatively fresh)

Edited by meteorol, 05 December 2014 - 12:53 AM.

[Walluh]

An Atlas can and will destroy a Dire Wolf in close quarters. Outside of gauss and ppc, clans have no pinpoint damage, and Atlai can spread damage all day every day.

[John1352]

The Atlas can sync SRM6s, AC20 and large/med lasers to fire them all every 4 seconds. Then it can spend the reloading time with an arm soaking the damage. At a range where the SRMs will all hit the Daishi's CT, the Atlas has a solid chance of winning. (quite likely missing a side torso after though) One (big) problem though: SRM6 all hitting CT range is ~150m, the Daishi will usually have an effective range over 500m, so the Atlas will be dead before it gets to SRM max range.

Edit: ninja'd by meteorol, we basically said the same thing.

Edited by John1352, 05 December 2014 - 12:54 AM.

[Grantham Besat]

Yoseful Mallad, on 04 December 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

if we can have symmetrical Ballistic load outs like duel Gauss, Ac-10s, Ac-20s on a heavy mech like the K-2 that was really never ment to have them, why cant we have this on a 100 ton Atlas that should be able to very easily have it. The Atlas model even has the empty spot on its left torso where another ballistic would fit. It would be a very easy addition for the art/modeling team. Besides, with all the DAKKA the Dire wolf can have and later (Executioner) as we all know its coming... its time for the IS to get the King Crab and updated Atlas that can keep pace with them.

Hate to break this to you but the executioner has hard wired jjs, a 380xl engine, and only 13.5 tons of stock armor. You also need to remember that its an energy boat in all of its configurations very similar to the Gargoyles. Stock she will have roughly 23 tons of pod space and 16dhs I think. Also low mounted weapons just like the Gargoyles.

Edited by Grantham Besat, 05 December 2014 - 12:53 AM.

[John1352]

I've just been running my DDC (my only atlas) a bit. The ECM is extremely useful for getting into brawling range with full (or close to) armor. If I get up to point blank range of a Direwolf (sneakily), then use the shoot, spend 3 seconds twisted strategy, I tend to win, but missing half my Atlas, and the other half is lucky to have any armor left. This is with a mech with nothing that shoots further than an AC20 fighting a mech that has Gauss Rifles, ERLLs, UAC5s, basically triple or more my range.