346 replies to this topic

[Moonlander]

Thank you so much! Looove the high mounting energy/missile hardpoints. Can't wait for this! AND THAT COCKPIT!

[Quxudica]

Am I the only one that expected it to be much larger? I know MWO's scale is whacked to hell for many mechs, but this thing being almost the same size as a phract seems wrong to me.

Also feel like it's legs are too long and to close together.

[ImperialKnight]

Escef, on 06 December 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

We already had one, the Atlas, perhaps you've heard of it? In fact, the KGCs will be packing less firepower than most Atlases, because SRMs are more damage-to-tonnage efficient than big bore ACs (though the pinpoint potential of twin AC20 or twin Gauss is nasty).

Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to the KGC. But evaluate things realistically.

How would the KGC have less firepower than the Atlas? They are both 100 tons AND the KGC will be running dual gauss, AC40 and quad AC5/UAC5s builds comfortably.

2 variants of the KGC have the same number of missile hardpoints as an Atlas.

I fail to see your logic. Perhaps you would like to elaborate?

[Alistair Winter]

Escef, on 06 December 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

I have an AC20, 4xASRM4, and 4xML on my AS7-S, with endo steel and a 350 engine. And I had to strip the legs down to around 57 and the arms to 60. If you think that the KGC will be able to fit more firepower than an Atlas without making serious compromises to armor, engine, cooling, or ammo than you are out of your mind.

You said the Atlas has more firepower than the King Crab. How is that possible when they have the same hardpoints, except the King Crab has a few additional ones? Your build may have the highest alpha strike damage of any inner sphere assault mech, but the King Crab will be able to copy that without problems. If you have an AS7-S with 4xSRM6, the King Crab can have that too. And with Artemis to boot! Whatever Atlas build you can conceive of, the King Crab can replicate it. And probably throw on a few extra lasers, SRMs and MGs, if you are so inclined.

And it will still have better torso twist, while having the same speed and agility.

In case I'm not being clear: I do not understand how the Atlas can have more firepower than the King Crab. Please explain.

[The Wakelord]

So is the 000 and 000(L) both available for c-bill, or just the 000? They seem like entirely different chassis.

[KharnZor]

Its beautiful

[Walluh]

The Wakelord, on 06 December 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

So is the 000 and 000(L) both available for c-bill, or just the 000? They seem like entirely different chassis.

0000 is different than the 000. The 000(L) I assume is like the TBR-PRIME(I) to the TBR-PRIME, the same variant, just with a pretty skin.

Quxudica, on 06 December 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

Am I the only one that expected it to be much larger? I know MWO's scale is whacked to hell for many mechs, but this thing being almost the same size as a phract seems wrong to me.

Also feel like it's legs are too long and to close together.

The KGC is a really short, but really WIDE mech. The tonnage is from how far back the torso extends, and you can't really see that in a forward shot.

Edited by Walluh, 06 December 2014 - 09:10 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Anyone else getting a MASSIVE Marauder /Glaug Battlepod vibe of this thing, especially the legs?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 December 2014 - 09:25 PM.

[Fishbulb333]

Looks pretty awesome, thanks for the preview, good work as usual SL... Surprised it's so small, but the giant CT hitbox should counter that. Also - Those are some nice pre-quirks, I wonder what the gargoyle will get? +0.6 leg structure? +5 torso turn angle?

Any chance of an ETA on the gargoyle sneak peek? I'm still on the fence about upgrading from loki to man o war collection.

[Brody319]

I think it seems like a slightly faster more agile Direwolf. It seems to be deadly when it faces you, but suffer a lot when you get behind it, but while the direwolf is much slower to turn, this thing seems to be much more deadly. though the top is probably going to full of holes from Missiles.

[KhanCipher]

so we get the KGC-0000, 000, and 000b.... why couldn't we get the 010 (2 LBX10s in the arms, and 1 PPC + 1 SRM6 in each side torso) which was introduced along side the 000 but it fell out like just about every other star league mech after the 2750, or the 001 (clan buster variant).

Oh and since we're pulling in the 000b (for some reason, even though the 010 technically exists "but doesn't" at this time), why don't we have the BLR-1Gb, STK-3Fb, or the TDR-5Sb, all of which are clearly different from their standard counterparts.

[Walluh]

Totally waiting for the 010 and 001. My vote's on the 010 being a hero mech with the rad PPC flushing nonsense.

[Escef]

knightsljx, on 06 December 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

How would the KGC have less firepower than the Atlas? They are both 100 tons AND the KGC will be running dual gauss, AC40 and quad AC5/UAC5s builds comfortably.

2 variants of the KGC have the same number of missile hardpoints as an Atlas.

I fail to see your logic. Perhaps you would like to elaborate?

Alistair Winter, on 06 December 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

You said the Atlas has more firepower than the King Crab. How is that possible when they have the same hardpoints, except the King Crab has a few additional ones? Your build may have the highest alpha strike damage of any inner sphere assault mech, but the King Crab will be able to copy that without problems. If you have an AS7-S with 4xSRM6, the King Crab can have that too. And with Artemis to boot! Whatever Atlas build you can conceive of, the King Crab can replicate it. And probably throw on a few extra lasers, SRMs and MGs, if you are so inclined.

And it will still have better torso twist, while having the same speed and agility.

In case I'm not being clear: I do not understand how the Atlas can have more firepower than the King Crab. Please explain.

Ok, put up some builds. Both of you. Give us a some kind of a KGC build that outguns an Atlas. I don't think you are going to do better than equal without serious compromise or outright ignoring your ballistics. It doesn't matter how many hardpoints you have, at this point you are becoming more limited by tonnage.

My AS7-S. Note that leg armor, cooling, and ammo have seen small compromises. 74.4 alpha, 5.83 sustained DPS, 27% cooling.

AS7-S with stock engine and bigger guns. 103.6 alpha with 5.22 sustained DPS and 20% cooling.

If you want a Gauss you lose 5 damage over an AC20. If you want a second AC20 you lose out on secondary weapons. Big guns are NOT damage-to -tonnage effective. Twin LPLs mass as much as an AC20 and deal 22 damage, with no ammo restriction/liability. 4xASRM6 is 16 tons, not quite enough for an AC20 and adequate ammo, but in the change over you go from 48 damage to 20.

So, no, the KGC is not going to outgun the Atlas. More pinpoint? Hell yes, absolutely. The KGC will also probably do better at range (multiple Gauss or light ACs). But not raw firepower. The problem isn't the number of hardpoints, it's that you have a finite amount of tonnage to work with.

[Quxudica]

Quote

Kind of ironic that it's huge shell will probably be its weakness.

This is why they need to stop focusing quirks so entirely on weapons and start using them to give chassis character. Adding quirks to inflate the already over inflated damage in the game isn't really helping. Instead they need to make these chassis designs more than just aesthetics. For example give the Whale's and Crabs a blanket damage reduction from above. The slow pondering dire whales with that massive canopy should receive some benefit from it - give it a reason to be designed like that. I'd say a percentage reduction in damage from above a certain angle of fire and vertical cockpit damage immunity. give the crab a similar resilience to damage from above it to compliment the major yaw and the close-able claws.

To many of the quirks (in fact, virtually all of the quirks) focus on incredibly bland things like slight buffs to armor/structure or increases to weapon effectiveness. Making an ac/20 shoot faster is nice, but it's not really giving that specific mech any more character - it's the same buff to the same weapon that other mechs have gotten. There are many facets of each chassis they could be accentuating via quirks that no other mech would get, but instead they seem stuck on the boring +10% cool down reductions and +7.5% velocity increases. It's perfectly fine if you want to make certain chassis gain benefits for certain weapons (though they really should be weapons they were meant to be using, not just jamming whatever the current meta weapon is on them) but they could be doing so much more.

/end rant

[Vassago Rain]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

LOL. Could Cattra have possibly run worse builds in those DWs and Warhawks?

He could have boated machineguns and streaks, I guess. The king of grab deals still ended up way too close to death for its own good, and in an actual match, I don't think any daishi would see a reason to get that close to IS brawlers.

[Walluh]

Escef, on 06 December 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

Ok, put up some builds. Both of you. Give us a some kind of a KGC build that outguns an Atlas. I don't think you are going to do better than equal without serious compromise or outright ignoring your ballistics. It doesn't matter how many hardpoints you have, at this point you are becoming more limited by tonnage.

My AS7-S. Note that leg armor, cooling, and ammo have seen small compromises. 74.4 alpha, 5.83 sustained DPS, 27% cooling.

AS7-S with stock engine and bigger guns. 103.6 alpha with 5.22 sustained DPS and 20% cooling.

If you want a Gauss you lose 5 damage over an AC20. If you want a second AC20 you lose out on secondary weapons. Big guns are NOT damage-to -tonnage effective. Twin LPLs mass as much as an AC20 and deal 22 damage, with no ammo restriction/liability. 4xASRM6 is 16 tons, not quite enough for an AC20 and adequate ammo, but in the change over you go from 48 damage to 20.

So, no, the KGC is not going to outgun the Atlas. More pinpoint? Hell yes, absolutely. The KGC will also probably do better at range (multiple Gauss or light ACs). But not raw firepower. The problem isn't the number of hardpoints, it's that you have a finite amount of tonnage to work with.

Do note the King Crab can do both of those builds, as it has the required hardpoints and tonnage.

[The Wakelord]

Walluh, on 06 December 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

0000 is different than the 000. The 000(L) I assume is like the TBR-PRIME(I) to the TBR-PRIME, the same variant, just with a pretty skin.

Phew!

[Andi Nagasia]

so with this the DWF Dies, well its been a good run guys,
um so now that IS gets their Uber Dakka can we get some Clan Quirks?
it looks as if it may be able to hold 6AC5s,

and IS is gonna push the Clan back to Arcadia,...

[Escef]

Walluh, on 06 December 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

Do note the King Crab can do both of those builds, as it has the required hardpoints and tonnage.

Like I said, the best you are going to get is equal. And most KGC builds will have less firepower than an Atlas because otherwise you waste what makes the KGC different.

I'm not saying the KGC is going to be bad, or not fun, or DoA, or any of that nonsense. I'm just saying that claims of it outgunning an Atlas are poorly thought through.

[Vassago Rain]

Andi Nagasia, on 06 December 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

so with this the DWF Dies, well its been a good run guys,
um so now that IS gets their Uber Dakka can we get some Clan Quirks?
it looks as if it may be able to hold 6AC5s,

and IS is gonna push the Clan back to Arcadia,...

Haha, no.

Daishis will just laugh like Nicolai Malthus and take up positions outside 400 meters. Here, I have a picture of what it's gonna look like.