118 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

I imagine the qq will be vast. There's a group of players that refuse to adapt any time something here gets changed and they have to step outside of the narrow niche in which they do well in.
To them i say pub queue

I agree with zur. VW will drive a whole new variety especially sinve we know those deck weights will vary. There will be no more "one size fits all" style. Players will have to diversify to play in cw thankfully

There is only one certain thing in dropship mode so far and that is the addition of hard drop weights which the regular and group queues do not have. So yes 100% there will be more variety and the min maxing as its called, will have some limits.

[Ph30nix]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Uhm yes there have
Several actually

hence why i said "2 or 3.... you can barely call them test"
or however i worded it, those were pretty pathetic tests, i would feel alot better if they had devoted an entire weekend to it even if it was only on test server.

but i will say this, if CW comes around and clan vs IS is actually well balanced.... ill give PGI a pass on the next few questionable things they say they are going to do.

[Khobai]

Quote

If anything, I expect the meta to become more exposed in CW than it is in the "Ghetto." With real and long-lasting consequences for a defeat (assuming CW is designed "properly"), winning will become more important and thus people will be more inclined to practice habits that increase their chances of winning...including using the best robots and loadouts available.

Thats why losing should give the biggest rewards. So both teams try to lose by bringing nothing but Locusts.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 08 December 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

Thats why losing should give the biggest rewards. So both teams try to lose by bringing nothing but Locusts. Mist Lynxes.

Fixed.

[InRev]

More and more, I am convinced CW needs "good" space for the competitive types to fight over and "ghetto" space for the rest of us.

There would still be plenty of e-peen fodder for the hardcore but it wouldn't totally exclude the casuals. Letting competitives beat up on the underhive is and will be boring for everyone involved and just not good for the game.

[Astrocanis]

If by diversity you mean optimal meta-loadouts and group enforced dropdecks, I agree.

[N0MAD]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

I imagine the qq will be vast. There's a group of players that refuse to adapt any time something here gets changed and they have to step outside of the narrow niche in which they do well in.
To them i say pub queue

I agree with zur. VW will drive a whole new variety especially sinve we know those deck weights will vary. There will be no more "one size fits all" style. Players will have to diversify to play in cw thankfully

Why would you need to diversify for a max of maybe 2 maps? really how many ways can you play a single map?. You will find same mechs same load outs constantly. Once you play the map first time you will adjust the build the drop deck and then ?

[HlynkaCG]

Astrocanis, on 08 December 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

If by diversity you mean optimal meta-loadouts and group enforced dropdecks, I agree.

Define "optimal", Is it optimal to take an assault mech when it means that you'll have to also take a light to balance it out? or will we be seeing lots of mediums?

Edited by HlynkaCG, 08 December 2014 - 08:45 PM.

[Grantham Besat]

The neat part is when the try hards start banding together into supper units and then it really will be bads down bads down! ! Owning a planet will be more important than hard fights to many try hards. Wonder which super unit will form first and from where.

Edited by Grantham Besat, 08 December 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[Sandpit]

Ph30nix, on 08 December 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

hence why i said "2 or 3.... you can barely call them test"
or however i worded it, those were pretty pathetic tests, i would feel alot better if they had devoted an entire weekend to it even if it was only on test server.

but i will say this, if CW comes around and clan vs IS is actually well balanced.... ill give PGI a pass on the next few questionable things they say they are going to do.

you did?

Ph30nix, on 08 December 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

There have never been and REAL clan vs IS balance testing. .

i must have missed that part....

and no, there's been at least 6 that I know of and I participated in 4

N0MAD, on 08 December 2014 - 07:47 PM, said:

Why would you need to diversify for a max of maybe 2 maps? really how many ways can you play a single map?. You will find same mechs same load outs constantly. Once you play the map first time you will adjust the build the drop deck and then ?

uh huh
so explain to me how a drop deck of say....
300 tons
or
400 tons
or
180 tons
or
320 tons
equates to same mech loadouts?

[QuantumButler]

No it won't

people will play in the regular queue as they always have, and the CW queue will probably become a Ghost town like the old 12 mans after the initial couple weeks to a month of excited hype.

The typical IS drop deck will probably be 2 King Grabs and 2 Locusts.

Edited by QuantumButler, 08 December 2014 - 09:08 PM.

[Sandpit]

QuantumButler, on 08 December 2014 - 09:07 PM, said:

No it won't

people will play in the regular queue as they always have, and the CW queue will probably become a Ghost town like the old 12 mans after the initial couple weeks to a month of excited hype.

uh huh....
I really need to invest in whatever crystal balls all these soothsayers have. I could use the next set of lottery numbers.

You could at LEAST give some sort of reasoning as to why you think that. That's what discussion and feedback is, not "It's all gonnna diiiiiiie!"

[QuantumButler]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

uh huh....
I really need to invest in whatever crystal balls all these soothsayers have. I could use the next set of lottery numbers.

You could at LEAST give some sort of reasoning as to why you think that. That's what discussion and feedback is, not "It's all gonnna diiiiiiie!"

Why would it effect the metagame of the normal queue?

[Sandpit]

QuantumButler, on 08 December 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

Why would it effect the metagame of the normal queue?

how wouldn't it?
You're making the statement, I'm asking for your thoughts as to why you're making it. There's several posts in this thread that explain why some of us think it will.

The only thing you've provided is "Nuh uh" and "Why would it?"

If you provide your thoughts as to why, then at least we can have a discussion about things and how PGI could improve any issues you see happening

[QuantumButler]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:

how wouldn't it?
You're making the statement, I'm asking for your thoughts as to why you're making it. There's several posts in this thread that explain why some of us think it will.

The only thing you've provided is "Nuh uh" and "Why would it?"

If you provide your thoughts as to why, then at least we can have a discussion about things and how PGI could improve any issues you see happening

What?

I didn't see any posts explaining how Community Warefare queue will effect what mechs and builds people use in the normal queue in this thread, nor can I even begin to hypothetically fathom how it would effect what people bring in normal games.

As for why I think the CW queue will become a ghost town: It's because I think the mjaority of the players will be of the highly competitive sort, probably big groups bringing the most meta compliant builds and mechs, and in my opinion, fighting against comp teams is anti-fun, and is in fact at best highly dull, and at worst a painful experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. .

[Sandpit]

QuantumButler, on 08 December 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

What?

I didn't see any posts explaining how Community Warefare queue will effect what mechs and builds people use in the normal queue in this thread, nor can I even begin to hypothetically fathom how it would effect what people bring in normal games.

As for why I think the CW queue will become a ghost town: It's because I think the mjaority of the players will be of the highly competitive sort, probably big groups bringing the most meta compliant builds and mechs, and in my opinion, fighting against comp teams is anti-fun, and is in fact at best highly dull, and at worst a painful experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. .

"Competitive" teams are about 1% of the entire game population.

1% of the population isn't enough to drive anything. This will especially be true since there's no "windows" of attack now. It's simply jump in and play. I'd ahve agreed more with you if they still had the windows but given the 24.7 nature there simply aren't enough "competitive" teams and such to drive that kind of factor.

The "meta" in the pub queue has never ever been as far reaching as some would like to make it out especially since the solo and group queue split. There simply aren't enough "competitive" 12 mans to dictate the entire game. What you tend to see are people who are in a very specific Elo bracket complaining about it while the majority of players don't have to deal with it.

[QuantumButler]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

"Competitive" teams are about 1% of the entire game population.

1% of the population isn't enough to drive anything. This will especially be true since there's no "windows" of attack now. It's simply jump in and play. I'd ahve agreed more with you if they still had the windows but given the 24.7 nature there simply aren't enough "competitive" teams and such to drive that kind of factor.

The "meta" in the pub queue has never ever been as far reaching as some would like to make it out especially since the solo and group queue split. There simply aren't enough "competitive" 12 mans to dictate the entire game. What you tend to see are people who are in a very specific Elo bracket complaining about it while the majority of players don't have to deal with it.

Remeber though, they said ELO wasn't going to be a factor in CW MM, so complete scrubs are going to run into the Lords or ACES A-team and they will get crushed, comp teams will deal with it, more casual groups won't, they'll leave the CW queue after they get tired of being stomped for the 10th time, and only the comps will be left, just like what happened with 12 mans.

At the start you had a few 12 mans from the unofficial TS3 who were basically pugs on VOIP, but they got tired of getting stomped by comp teams and left, then the comp teams more or less stopped playing 12 mans too, and the 12 man queue finally got removed and redone into the current group queue.

I think with CW there is a risk of this happening again.

Edited by QuantumButler, 08 December 2014 - 09:49 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Interesting replies here. Makes me think they will be over hauling the regular queue and group queues after the succession wars are in and stable. How? Dont know. Maybe a move back to 4 man max groups or something since private queue and the star map will allow 12 mans to drop when ever they want.

I just hope they get around to making a newbie queue.

Edited by Johnny Z, 08 December 2014 - 10:05 PM.

[N0MAD]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2014 - 09:07 PM, said:

you did?



i must have missed that part....

and no, there's been at least 6 that I know of and I participated in 4


uh huh
so explain to me how a drop deck of say....
300 tons
or
400 tons
or
180 tons
or
320 tons
equates to same mech loadouts?

Well since there is no definate info on what the tonnage varations will be per planet we can assume they wont vary that much, 180 ton wont happen without huge backlash from a large % of the player base since most dont like Lights as demonstrated in the Q light %, same can be said for a 400 limit.
Either way what ever the limit is, there will be optimal decks for that limit, after the first drop for the day the deck will be set.
Lower it much more than 240 and people simply wont opt in, remember there are going to be multiple instances (planets being disputed at the same time), put in a drop weight that people dont like they wont opt into that instance.
Already the amount of instances that will be available will split the Q into what? over a dozen? with Factions having what 2 attack, 2 defend per faction? how many instances will be possibly going at any given time? So the player base is going to be split into how many Qs at any given time? on top of that add Different drop weights per intance where is the player base going to go to a 180 limit? or are Light/Medium pilots going to drop into a 400 limit? really?
Nope Deck limits are going to be quite similar in my opinion varying little.
Which brings me to the situation of all these different instances happening at the same time, little thought went into this, i figure theres no way the population is going to handle a Dozen different CW Qs + the standard Solo+ group Q.
This is a major problem no one is taking into account, wheres the population going to come from to fill a dozen + Qs, Split the current Qs into a dozen Qs and the result is???

[Johnny Z]

N0MAD, on 08 December 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

Well since there is no definate info on what the tonnage varations will be per planet we can assume they wont vary that much, 180 ton wont happen without huge backlash from a large % of the player base since most dont like Lights as demonstrated in the Q light %, same can be said for a 400 limit.
Either way what ever the limit is, there will be optimal decks for that limit, after the first drop for the day the deck will be set.
Lower it much more than 240 and people simply wont opt in, remember there are going to be multiple instances (planets being disputed at the same time), put in a drop weight that people dont like they wont opt into that instance.
Already the amount of instances that will be available will split the Q into what? over a dozen? with Factions having what 2 attack, 2 defend per faction? how many instances will be possibly going at any given time? So the player base is going to be split into how many Qs at any given time? on top of that add Different drop weights per intance where is the player base going to go to a 180 limit? or are Light/Medium pilots going to drop into a 400 limit? really?
Nope Deck limits are going to be quite similar in my opinion varying little.
Which brings me to the situation of all these different instances happening at the same time, little thought went into this, i figure theres no way the population is going to handle a Dozen different CW Qs + the standard Solo+ group Q.
This is a major problem no one is taking into account, wheres the population going to come from to fill a dozen + Qs, Split the current Qs into a dozen Qs and the result is???

I think a 180 drop weight would be fine and the complaining will come from a tiny minority of players actually.

240 caters to the assault crowd. A more medium weight and even a light oriented drop weight that caters to none assault crowd would be fine for many players I bet and the assault/heavy crowd staying out of the fights probly wont bother anyone.

Also I dont think the queue works like you are suggesting above in the Succession Wars.

Edited by Johnny Z, 08 December 2014 - 11:01 PM.