250 replies to this topic

[ztac]

Long waits will disengage people from the game. Putting 12 man pre-mades vs PUG's will do the same thing. These two things have proven true in the past so why bring them back? Short memory maybe?

[conquistadorst]

Love CW but the queue is a bit terrible, hopefully these changes help because it's just so much more fun than vanilla modes! Brings far more meaning to all aspects of this game.

However it's a bit of misnomer to call it a FIFO system. First one in is not first one out here. What you described is a system that ensures matches are made, not a system that ensures players are matched by their position in their queue. It's quite common in this system the first one in *never* makes it out. I'd only stop short of calling it a FIRO algorithm (first in random out) because it's not completely random where criteria is used... even though if it seems to appear that way to observers .

[GryHwk]

Well, I can tell you...being a Lone Wolf by choice, (RL won't let me devote the time I need to be a true member of any faction)..but I can tell you..it sucks....... 20minute or better wait.... I contracted with Stiener, and i'm on my 3rd day without a battle...don't know about you...but they are lucky I even wait 20minutes....I usually cancel after 10minutes. Seems us Lone Wolf's are left out to dry in the sun.... yeah yeah I know..join a faction anyway.... yeah sure...do what I don't want to do.. I like that I have the option to hire out to whoever I damn well please..... hence the name..Love Wolf, but yeah, you do get the feeling that your being alienated for being out of the norm. I spent alot of money on MWO.... and, as of late....i feel if you haven't totally enveloped yourself it in all... your just a piece of dirt on their sleeve to be brushed off....... sorry, I digress..... but anyhow...yes.... Being a Lone Wolf in CW sucks.....there..my 2.3 cents worth of rant...... Please..have a good day... shoot 'em if they can't take a joke....

[Kentero]

Well you guys really screwed the pooch on this one. I was so excited about CW. Logged in with my buddy and we spent over 30 minutes just trying to figure WTF we were supposed to do. Not intuitive, no explainations and screw wait times of 30 minutes plus.

I shouldn't have to go to an external website just to figure out how to play. My buddy abd I are grouped, but can not get into the same que. No other players in sight, nor are there que's to join.

You really need to re-think whatever the hell you are doing here.

[Cimarb]

Kentero, on 18 December 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

Well you guys really screwed the pooch on this one. I was so excited about CW. Logged in with my buddy and we spent over 30 minutes just trying to figure WTF we were supposed to do. Not intuitive, no explainations and screw wait times of 30 minutes plus.

I shouldn't have to go to an external website just to figure out how to play. My buddy abd I are grouped, but can not get into the same que. No other players in sight, nor are there que's to join.

You really need to re-think whatever the hell you are doing here.

They are working on it. Several fixes go in tonight.

[Thelamon]

Quote

- Allow players to group with all players of the same faction whether they are in your unit or not.

This will be key to enable inter-unit support within the factions! right now you are screwed if your unit doesn't have a 12man going.

Once unit cooperation will be allowed, faction hubs/ faction TS will become a whole new meaning as units can borrow a lance from a partner unit or invite faction lone wolves for ad-hoc 12mans.

(Idealy through faction chat ingame -but otherwise through TS or community made faction hubs.)

Right now you are in for great deal of frustration when not forming a 12 man.

(Long queue waits + trial puggers vs. competitive units often mean that you are screwed before the game even starts)

-------------------------
PS
Actually given the steep learning curve of CW combat and the opponents involved, there should be some minimum skill/experience level required to join CW games.

We have had several games with complete newbs trying to learn the basic game in CW (where is Cockpit view? Oh I can Group my weapons? - Oh I dont read the chat at all...) ...

Because said Players really hurt their Team + their faction.

- no trial mechs allowed
- minimum hours logged playing public (not even high ELO requirements but at least basic understanding of the game ensured by this)

Edited by Thelamon, 19 December 2014 - 12:37 AM.

[conquistadorst]

Punk Oblivion, on 16 December 2014 - 12:05 AM, said:

I would like a que option for smaller groups/solo players (say 4 and smaller) that has an option for "I want to attack/defend/counterattack/anything!" That way the larger groups can kick off attacks against planets, then everyone in the "smaller group que" gets funneled in to fill larger teams, or just add additional forces to those planets in the form of Pug groups. Almost like the 12-mans are leading the solo players if you will. In any case I have been in quite a few PUG groups that wiped the floor with 12-mans this weekend. All with in-game communications.

Having said all that, a global faction chat with options to set up groups would be awesome! But how long would that take to implement? Weeks? Months? I would like some kind of fix faster. Hopefully seeing the number of players qued on each planet can be put in quickly, and would help guide ppl to focus certain planets for their faction during each round attacks.

I 2nd that. The casual group/player could care less what they attack/defend whatever. The current queuing system boggles the mind when you have 60 players attacking and 60 players defending and YET *still cannot start a match in under 20 minutes*. I'll sit there with a full group, pilots receiving orders, and start doing household chores in sometimes endless waits. Yet launching a normal game... always, always, always under 30 seconds. That's how CW queuing it should work.

[RightHook]

Any Queue that Is not FIFO is unfair. Favoring 12 man teams is unfair. I'm a founder, I have paid over $300 not counting a new computer and video card to play it on, to this game and waited years for CW to get here, but now I cant play CW because someone else is a preferred player?

FIFO is simple. If I'm the first one in the queue then I'm the first one in the next game. That means the match maker should pick an opponent that matches my group. If I'm solo it finds the first solo opponent and puts them on the other team. If I am in a 12 man then it loads a matching group. If there are no matching groups it picks the next best option, 4+8 or what ever. even 12 vs pugs is better then 12 vs no one. How nuts is that???

Using FIFO means that everyone will get in a game according to when they got in the queue. A solo is first then a 4 man then 6 man then finish with another solo. match them with the same for the other team and you have your game. Boom done. Next match.

And only one match per planet is also ridiculous. You should be able to have as many as there are territories on the planet. That would greatly reduce wait times.

And as has been pointed out here previously a central queue for those are loyal to the faction and don't care what planet they get sent to, would allow pugs and groups to be pulled into a planet queue to fill out a match more quickly.

This would allow both 12 man teams and solos and everyone in between to have games quickly and often. Which is why we are playing the game. The more games we play the more fun we can have. Waiting 20 -30 mins for a game is not only not fun. It's unplayable to someone who cant spend an entire hour to play one match. And after spending hundreds of dollars and waiting for the promise of CW for years now, I'm not happy to be told by PGI that I don't matter to them.

CW was NEVER billed as only for 12 v 12. To change that now is heinous.

[Cimarb]

FIFO just does not work in this type of a matchmaker. Regardless of how much you paid, that is just how it is.

I queued solo earlier today and got right into a match - maybe 5 minutes max. If you are not getting a queue, it is likely because you are on the wrong planet.

[conquistadorst]

Cimarb, on 21 December 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

FIFO just does not work in this type of a matchmaker. Regardless of how much you paid, that is just how it is.

I queued solo earlier today and got right into a match - maybe 5 minutes max. If you are not getting a queue, it is likely because you are on the wrong planet.

Yeah, sometimes. Sure. Sometimes you can't play at all. I've also queued for planets that are 60+/60+ and still waited 20 minutes without actually successfully getting into a game. Even sitting there with a full "pilot waiting for orders" group with no dice. The way this system works right now, sometimes you just have to give up and start over. Do I have any idea why? No I don't, but something isn't working.

[Cimarb]

conquistadorst, on 22 December 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

Yeah, sometimes. Sure. Sometimes you can't play at all. I've also queued for planets that are 60+/60+ and still waited 20 minutes without actually successfully getting into a game. Even sitting there with a full "pilot waiting for orders" group with no dice. The way this system works right now, sometimes you just have to give up and start over. Do I have any idea why? No I don't, but something isn't working.

I am sorry you are having such bad luck, but I have never had that issue. Whether I drop in 12-mans, smaller groups, or solo, I have never waited more than 15 minutes or so for a match, and have not waited more than 10 or so since they made the changes to the queues last week. In fact, queuing on the right planet solo is actually usually significantly faster than doing so as a large (but under 12) group.

The key for any queues, but especially solo, is to click on the pop up asking for people. That is where a group is being formed already, and will give you dramatically quicker results than to just pick a planet and hope something kicks off.

[ZetaFalcon]

If a 12 man forms to defend and no enemy team forms it should be an automatic win. We came to defend, but no one showed up and should be compensated for it.

The time out could be like 5 minutes. This would speed up more games and happyness.
Thanks

[Cimarb]

ZetaFalcon, on 22 December 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

If a 12 man forms to defend and no enemy team forms it should be an automatic win. We came to defend, but no one showed up and should be compensated for it.

The time out could be like 5 minutes. This would speed up more games and happyness.
Thanks

An auto-win defense means nothing, so you are more than welcome to have all the auto-win defenses you want.

(I think you meant counter-attack, but I believe that already has an auto-win clause)

Edited by Cimarb, 22 December 2014 - 08:42 AM.

[miniBalrog]

I have been trying for 4 days to get into a CW match and because of this am unable to really participate in the Christmas Event.

[RightHook]

I usually pick the popup at the bottom that says looking for defenders.
But that doesn't normally work. I had better luck last night when I manually picked a planet with 23 V 24 in the queue. We cycled in and out of 4 or 5 games in about 5 - 10 mins, it was the exact same teams each game, we were fighting an 11 man team and they stomped us every match, but it was still better then just watching the load screen.

Like now as I'm typing this I have been waiting 15+ for a game that was in the popup asking for defenders. there are 30 + in both sides of the queue, our screen is full and waiting for orders since 3 mins in.

Since I normally play on short breaks during the day 15+ mins waiting for a game is just non functional.

And you are right a fifo would not work with this match maker, this one needs to be scraped and a fifo one put in it's place.

p.s. 22 min and still waiting

Edited by RightHook, 22 December 2014 - 11:00 AM.

[Cimarb]

miniBalrog, on 22 December 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

I have been trying for 4 days to get into a CW match and because of this am unable to really participate in the Christmas Event.

Then you are doing it wrong. I have had zero problems getting into a match, regardless of what size group I am in (or not). I dropped a few times solo just to see what everyone was complaining about and got in a match even quicker than if I was in a group.

[Cimarb]

RightHook, on 22 December 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

I usually pick the popup at the bottom that says looking for defenders.
But that doesn't normally work. I had better luck last night when I manually picked a planet with 23 V 24 in the queue. We cycled in and out of 4 or 5 games in about 5 - 10 mins, it was the exact same teams each game, we were fighting an 11 man team and they stomped us every match, but it was still better then just watching the load screen.

Like now as I'm typing this I have been waiting 15+ for a game that was in the popup asking for defenders. there are 30 + in both sides of the queue, our screen is full and waiting for orders since 3 mins in.

Since I normally play on short breaks during the day 15+ mins waiting for a game is just non functional.

And you are right a fifo would not work with this match maker, this one needs to be scraped and a fifo one put in it's place.

p.s. 22 min and still waiting

If you are playing at really low population times, like in the middle of the day, that is going to be the issue. Try playing any major online game at 3am EST Tuesday morning, and it is going to be a barren wasteland. Even WoW, with its eight quadrillion subscribers, is like that.

As far as the FIFO, scrapping the entire system would be a very poor idea, especially if it is just a simple FIFO. This is the hardcore version of the game, and it needs to make matches for the majority of its players. Suck up your pride and join an active unit/community so you can coordinate drops. Every faction has an active community, even if you are a Lone Wolf, and NGNG is specifically designed for that purpose of bringing people together, actually.

[Big Tin Man]

I threw this up in the patch feedback section, but it may get more traffic here from someone who knows:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The issue: planets show they have 60+ attackers and defenders, yet they wait and wait for a group.

The situation as I understand it (which may be totally wrong): There can only be 11 matches active on a single planet at once, as there are only 11 territories to fight over and CW cannot have 2 matches happening on one territory at the same time. Each match kicks off a minimum of 1 minute apart, and there is a 10 minute countdown if you are unopposed (and everyone waits behind your group). Therefore, on average (assuming each CW match takes the full 30 minutes), a CW match starts every 3 minutes on a full planet. With 60+ in line, you're 5 groups back and would expect to wait an average of 15+ minutes based on a FIFO queue. Further, 12 mans are given priority in the MM queue, so your pug group gets pushed back further in favor of full groups. This can lead to a massive stack of people on a hotly contested planet who want to get in, but can't. Again, I have pieced this together and would like some official confirmation.

What has worked for me when pugging it: Find a planet with 20ish defenders and attackers. Go there and fill out a group. If you wait more than 5 minutes, your solo presence or small group is a bad fit compared to the rest of the queue. Go elsewhere.

Can someone over at PGI please explain a bit about how the MM queue works when there are 60+ lined up on a planet? This may greatly help people find a match quickly and calm folks down.

Edited by Big Tin Man, 22 December 2014 - 12:43 PM.

[Cimarb]

I would love some more info from PGI as well, but just wanted to point out that the numbers listed include active matches. For instance, if you see 12/12, 24/24, etc, it is highly likely that they are currently in a match, and it could be anywhere from 1 minute to 30+ minutes before they are "out" of the queue. So, if there are 5+ matches going on, the queue is always going to say 60+, even if you are the only person not currently in a match.

I think that is something they could really improve on, actually, as it is a bit confusing. Maybe add a third field that has "active matches", then the numbers of attackers and defenders waiting in queue (i.e. not in a match). So, if you had five active matches, 10 attackers and 14 defenders, it would look like this...

5/10/14

Instead of just...

60+/60+

[Talono]

Whats wrong with making it very easy :

Matchmaker fills 1st cue -> start
Matchmaker fillst 2nd cue -> start

and so on.

FIFO ist just and fair.

Edited by Talono, 22 December 2014 - 01:19 PM.