20517 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 19 October 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

Since it looks like PGI is moving to the MW3 mechs now, the Annihilator is not absolutely far fetched anymore...

True, but she will need a super sized engine cap not to be rendered useless.... I say for ****s and giggles give it a 400 engine cap....

[Requiemking]

TheArisen, on 18 October 2016 - 10:37 PM, said:

Hopefully we'll get the Javelin or some semi decent light. (Followed by the Nightstar!)

The Valkyrie is completely inferior to the Javelin & 20t mechs suck & will not sell, even if they're iconic.



Personally I think any light with a large number of variants could be used. Just release an extra variant or two to offset the perceived value.

Problem is, unless PGI does some serious buffing to Light mechs, no one is going to play them. I mean, when was the last time Light mechs, as a weight class, received a buff that wasn't in response to something being fixed (or broken) that made them able to compete with heavier mechs? the last time I know of was when Knockdowns were removed, and even then, that was a general buff to every mech in the game aside from the Dragon.

[Metus regem]

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Problem is, unless PGI does some serious buffing to Light mechs, no one is going to play them. I mean, when was the last time Light mechs, as a weight class, received a buff that wasn't in response to something being fixed (or broken) that made them able to compete with heavier mechs? the last time I know of was when Knockdowns were removed, and even then, that was a general buff to every mech in the game aside from the Dragon.

As a whole? I can't think of one, but the Locust got one hell of a buff with the resizing...

[Sereglach]

Metus regem, on 19 October 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

As a whole? I can't think of one, but the Locust got one hell of a buff with the resizing...

. . . and then got its face smashed in with nerfs because it was starting to perform reasonably decent.

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Problem is, unless PGI does some serious buffing to Light mechs, no one is going to play them. I mean, when was the last time Light mechs, as a weight class, received a buff that wasn't in response to something being fixed (or broken) that made them able to compete with heavier mechs? the last time I know of was when Knockdowns were removed, and even then, that was a general buff to every mech in the game aside from the Dragon.

The funny part is that some of the stuff to buff lights isn't and shouldn't be out of the question.

1. Scrap the massive amounts of agility buffs to heavies and assaults . . . and even some mediums. Yes, it's a nerf to make the bigger mechs actually feel like bigger mechs, but it'd also serve as an indirect buff to allowing lights to perform more like they should; and their handling differences would feel more like they should vs. their larger counterparts.

2. Increase engine caps for the lightest of lights and set a new speed cap of about 195kph. PGI has stated that hit registration doesn't get out of control until breaching 200kph with the last round of improvements that were made; and the way MASC has been implemented means that breaching 200kph for any mech (even the Fire Moth) is not possible in MWO currently.

3. Reassess hardpoints on some light mechs. This might require a little bit of extra modeling work, but it really should be done for some of the severe underperformers out there. It shouldn't be hard, either, considering the majority of PGI developer assets lie in mech art and modeling.

4. Increase SRM ammo/ton 50% from TT stats to match every other ammo boost that PGI has done. 150 rounds/ton would be a buff for everyone, but it would make the terribly missile-reliant lights more capable of competing.

5. Work on buffing, balancing, and reengineering the small weapons that the Light Mechs rely on. The Small Laser, Flamer, and MG in particular are all in utterly terrible shape.

6. Reassess quirks for all of the light mechs. The Arctic Cheetah is the best light out there; and should be used as a minimum baseline of performance for all lights. Start buffing all lights until they can compete with that mech, and once they compete with that mech then start comparing the lights' performances as a whole vs. everything else until we've got another balanced and usable weight class.

7. Fix Jump Jets. Most of the lights we have rely on Jump Jets to be nimble. While fixing jump jets would help all weight classes, lights would benefit the most by making them far more agile and harder to hit at the speeds they can already manage with their smaller silhouettes.

That's right off the top of my head, and the overwhelming majority of it are just XML changes that would completely turn the weight class around and drastically help mech balance overall. Even though things like XXL engines, Small Cockpits, XL Gyros, and other items (especially weapons) would also go a long way in helping out lights a lot, PGI is utterly terrified to introduce any "future-tech" because they've proven that they already can't handle current balance.

Once that's done we absolutely should see the Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Mongoose, Javelin, Fire Moth, Incubus, Piranha, Horned Owl, and many of the other solid light chassis out there.

EDIT: I know I'm stating things that have already been said numerous times, but it just gets frustrating that PGI has utterly failed at mech balance and rather than address the issue they've just decided to shift all of their mech releases to larger chassis.

Edited by Sereglach, 19 October 2016 - 01:11 PM.

[Requiemking]

Sereglach, on 19 October 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

. . . and then got its face smashed in with nerfs because it was starting to perform reasonably decent.
You can thank the Assault Potato faction for that. they are the ones that complain about Lights being OP most of the time.


The funny part is that some of the stuff to buff lights isn't and shouldn't be out of the question.

1. Scrap the massive amounts of agility buffs to heavies and assaults . . . and even some mediums. Yes, it's a nerf to make the bigger mechs actually feel like bigger mechs, but it'd also serve as an indirect buff to allowing lights to perform more like they should; and their handling differences would feel more like they should vs. their larger counterparts.
Yup. Fat Ballerinas should never have been a thing. The only Assault mechs that should be able to turn even close to that quickly are things like the Gargoyle.

2. Increase engine caps for the lightest of lights and set a new speed cap of about 195kph. PGI has stated that hit registration doesn't get out of control until breaching 200kph with the last round of improvements that were made; and the way MASC has been implemented means that breaching 200kph for any mech (even the Fire Moth) is not possible in MWO currently.
Well, I don't know about that. I haven't heard anything about the global speedcap increasing. Might make for an interesting research project.

3. Reassess hardpoints on some light mechs. This might require a little bit of extra modeling work, but it really should be done for some of the severe underperformers out there. It shouldn't be hard, either, considering the majority of PGI developer assets lie in mech art and modeling.
This would mainly help things like the Adder and the Kit Fox, as most other lights have theirs reasonably high up.

4. Increase SRM ammo/ton 50% from TT stats to match every other ammo boost that PGI has done. 150 rounds/ton would be a buff for everyone, but it would make the terribly missile-reliant lights more capable of competing.
Not entirely comfortable with this one. Yes, it would help the Locust, but it also helps a lot of other mechs,

5. Work on buffing, balancing, and reengineering the small weapons that the Light Mechs rely on. The Small Laser, Flamer, and MG in particular are all in utterly terrible shape.
Yes please. These things have needed buffs for ages.

6. Reassess quirks for all of the light mechs. The Arctic Cheetah is the best light out there; and should be used as a minimum baseline of performance for all lights. Start buffing all lights until they can compete with that mech, and once they compete with that mech then start comparing the lights' performances as a whole vs. everything else until we've got another balanced and usable weight class.
Honestly, I think the quirks system needs to be done away with entirely. I have an idea about how to replace it, but that is a topic for another thread.

7. Fix Jump Jets. Most of the lights we have rely on Jump Jets to be nimble. While fixing jump jets would help all weight classes, lights would benefit the most by making them far more agile and harder to hit at the speeds they can already manage with their smaller silhouettes.
Most Lights are in an ok position with JJS, with the occasional exception.

That's right off the top of my head, and the overwhelming majority of it are just XML changes that would completely turn the weight class around and drastically help mech balance overall. Even though things like XXL engines, Small Cockpits, XL Gyros, and other items (especially weapons) would also go a long way in helping out lights a lot, PGI is utterly terrified to introduce any "future-tech" because they've proven that they already can't handle current balance.

Once that's done we absolutely should see the Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Mongoose, Javelin, Fire Moth, Incubus, Piranha, Horned Owl, and many of the other solid light chassis out there.

EDIT: I know I'm stating things that have already been said numerous times, but it just gets frustrating that PGI has utterly failed a mech balance and rather than address the issue they've just decided to shift all of their mech releases to larger chassis.

My responses are bolded.

[Odanan]

Sereglach, on 19 October 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

1. Scrap the massive amounts of agility buffs to heavies and assaults . . . and even some mediums. Yes, it's a nerf to make the bigger mechs actually feel like bigger mechs, but it'd also serve as an indirect buff to allowing lights to perform more like they should; and their handling differences would feel more like they should vs. their larger counterparts.

[...]

7. Fix Jump Jets. Most of the lights we have rely on Jump Jets to be nimble. While fixing jump jets would help all weight classes, lights would benefit the most by making them far more agile and harder to hit at the speeds they can already manage with their smaller silhouettes.

Completely agree with 1 and 7.
But I think light are not that bad - the problem is expecting them to solo kill much larger mechs. I think PGI should boost the scouting rewards so light mech pilots can do their actual job.

[Virlutris]

Sereglach, on 19 October 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

. . . and then got its face smashed in with nerfs because it was starting to perform reasonably decent.


The funny part is that some of the stuff to buff lights isn't and shouldn't be out of the question.


2. Increase engine caps for the lightest of lights and set a new speed cap of about 195kph. PGI has stated that hit registration doesn't get out of control until breaching 200kph with the last round of improvements that were made; and the way MASC has been implemented means that breaching 200kph for any mech (even the Fire Moth) is not possible in MWO currently.

Once that's done we absolutely should see the Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Mongoose, Javelin, Fire Moth, Incubus, Piranha, Horned Owl, and many of the other solid light chassis out there.

EDIT: I know I'm stating things that have already been said numerous times, but it just gets frustrating that PGI has utterly failed at mech balance and rather than address the issue they've just decided to shift all of their mech releases to larger chassis.

You got my attention with the speed note.

Do you happen to remember who from PGI mentioned this note regarding the speed limit, and where?

I've been intermittently broken-recording that we can fit the Firemoth in under the old speed cap withtwith the new speed tweak, no MASC, and a slight top speed adjustment. If PGI's clearly stated that the old limit doesn't apply, and we can quote them clearly, then it's time to break out the torches and pitchforks, and put the "too fast, breaks the game" dismissal of the Firemoth out of its misery.

Please point me in the right direction--as best you can--for that quote/reference/inference/mad-scrawling-on-hospital-room-walls.

I've been considering a Firemoth Manifesto anyway. This would give me another talking point.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 19 October 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

Completely agree with 1 and 7.
But I think light are not that bad - the problem is expecting them to solo kill much larger mechs. I think PGI should boost the scouting rewards so light mech pilots can do their actual job.

You mean like actually having role warfare....

[Requiemking]

Odanan, on 19 October 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

Completely agree with 1 and 7.
But I think light are not that bad - the problem is expecting them to solo kill much larger mechs. I think PGI should boost the scouting rewards so light mech pilots can do their actual job.

Except, not all Light mechs are scouts. Look at the Adder, Urbanmech, Kit Fox, and Panther. They are literally designed to be fire support mechs. (Except for the Urbie. That mech is just an AC on legs.)

Edited by Requiemking, 19 October 2016 - 01:35 PM.

[Kaptain]

RestosIII, on 12 October 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

Remember, they made it so you straight up couldn't equip more than 2 goose waffles on a mech at a time. So it's DEFINATELY dead.

In a test build... that is not well received by atleast half of the community... that no one is playing and the devs are not talkign about or updating... Perhaps "definitely" means something else to you than what it means to me?

[RestosIII]

Kaptain, on 19 October 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

In a test build... that is not well received by atleast half of the community... that no one is playing and the devs are not talkign about or updating... Perhaps "definitely" means something else to you than what it means to me?

Do you REALLY think Russ or Paul or anyone at PGI cares if the community like ED or not? They are going to release it, and we are going to have to deal with the mess that it is.

[Kaptain]

RestosIII, on 19 October 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

Do you REALLY think Russ or Paul or anyone at PGI cares if the community like ED or not? They are going to release it, and we are going to have to deal with the mess that it is.

While they are extremely arrogant I don't think they are that stupid. The "lasers do less damage when not locked" BS from last year never made it into the game and I doubt GH2.0 will either.

[Imperius]

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

Except, not all Light mechs are scouts. Look at the Adder, Urbanmech, Kit Fox, and Panther. They are literally designed to be fire support mechs. (Except for the Urbie. That mech is just an AC on legs.)

Glad you know your place quit asking to be a fast assault with enough ammo to kill everything.

[Virlutris]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

Glad you know your place quit asking to be a fast assault with enough ammo to kill everything.

I think you lost me.

I'm not sure I follow the linkage from "look at these lights made for fire support," to "stop asking to b's a fast assault with lots of firepower.

Brevity is the soul of wit, but if you're kidding I missed it. Whether joking or you're confronting something, I'm not tracking it either way. Can I get an assist by way of added explanation?

Eds: spelling, clarity

Edited by Virlutris, 19 October 2016 - 04:29 PM.

[Imperius]

Virlutris, on 19 October 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

I think you lost me.

I'm not sure I follow the linkage from "look at these lights made for fire support," to "stop asking to b's a fast assault with lots of firepower.

Brevity is the soul of wit, but if you're kidding I missed it. Whether joking or you're confronting something, I'm not tracking it either way. Can I get an assist by way of added explanation?

Eds: spelling, clarity

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5442915
I was pointing out how he's hypocritical because I said this was his exact role as a light and he told me I was wrong. Yet here he's saying pretty much why lights are how they are.

[Sereglach]

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:

My responses are bolded.

Touching on the things you disagreed with, but for future reference it's easier to respond to quotes with copy/paste of the quote format lines and breaking the quote up, rather than typing in it with boldface. It just makes responding easier, especially since the stuff you're putting within the previous quote doesn't re-quote.

First, I'm not talking about remodeling hardpoint locations, I'm talking hardpoint amounts. Examples: Give the LCT-1V 6B and 1E, the LCT-3V 4B and 2E. Give the SDR-5V an extra 1E in each side torso and the 5D one extra energy hardpoint in the CT. The list goes on, but especially the much older light chassis are really lacking in the hardpoint department vs. more contemporary counterparts.

Sad to say it, but the pre-Firestarter era lights are the ones needing the most help. . . . My beloved Firestarter is considered mediocre in TT, at best, but came into MWO with an average of 8 hardpoints with almost no inflation on any variant. In fact I think only the K received hardpoint inflation.

Secondly, SRM ammo just needs the buff, period. Yes, the mechs helped the most are the light ammo dependant ones, but really SRM's damage -mostly- gets spread out enough that they could use the help in general. Russ has mentioned several times in history that "Ammo quirks are coming" but it hasn't happened . . . so I'm going to presume it's not.

Jump Jets in general still need to be buffed. Yes, it helps other mechs, but the pitiful hoverjets that we have now do NOT afford the agility that mechs should have with them. If they were worthwhile, then people would put more than one on a mech just for quick-turns. JJ Shake and Fall Damage really do quite enough by themselves to inhibit pop-tarting.

Virlutris, on 19 October 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

You got my attention with the speed note.

Do you happen to remember who from PGI mentioned this note regarding the speed limit, and where?

I've been intermittently broken-recording that we can fit the Firemoth in under the old speed cap withtwith the new speed tweak, no MASC, and a slight top speed adjustment. If PGI's clearly stated that the old limit doesn't apply, and we can quote them clearly, then it's time to break out the torches and pitchforks, and put the "too fast, breaks the game" dismissal of the Firemoth out of its misery.

Please point me in the right direction--as best you can--for that quote/reference/inference/mad-scrawling-on-hospital-room-walls.

I've been considering a Firemoth Manifesto anyway. This would give me another talking point.

Ok, it's been a LONG time, but I've done some digging to try to find where it was mentioned in a townhall about hit registration fixes. This was the best I could muster before I got a headache trying to dig through crap. I can't find the exact quote where Russ stated in a townhall that hit detection really starts to break after 200kph. However, here's what I did find:

- October 2013: MWO patched to new max speed of 170kph due to massive hit registration fixes.

- Sep 2014: MASC considered no-go because mechs will go too fast and break hit registration.

- Dec 2014 - Early 2015: Major hit registration fixes go out.

- April 16, 2015 town hall: MASC engineering is done and it could take mechs (namely mentions the Arctic Cheetah, but realizes he misspoke and that mech can't have MASC) beyond the current 170kph cap. They "MAY" have problems with Flea/Locust speed mechs, so they'll avoid them for now. In the same town hall it's stated that Neema would be working on even more HSR and hit registration fixes in the future.

- June/July 2015: June Townhall announces Neema making MAJOR HSR improvements that revolutionize hit registration and lift a lot of limits. Mech BONE rewinding in HSR creates a huge change that will make a huge difference.

I believe the quote comes in a town hall after this fact. However, next thing I could find without listening to hours and hours of town halls was that Jan/Feb 2016 MASC was getting buffed to further increase speed and agility and it wasn't a major concern on the hit registration side.

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

Except, not all Light mechs are scouts. Look at the Adder, Urbanmech, Kit Fox, and Panther. They are literally designed to be fire support mechs. (Except for the Urbie. That mech is just an AC on legs.)

Amen, and they can be made to actually compete with the defacto "best" light out there through appropriate quirking of mechs. EMPHASIS NOTE: APPROPRIATE QUIRKING. For example:

One of the primary factors is that, in MWO, base mech armor means next to nothing. Pretty much the first thing anyone does is max out the chassis armor, and only shaves a tiny bit off here or there (especially for lights) to get a rounded tonnage. Let alone the fact that no chassis have any real differentiation in their upper limits; and we have next to no defensive choices for mechs. This becomes exacerbated in lights.

Take the Urbanmech for example. In TT the UM-R60 comes with near max armor (6 tons) for a 30 ton mech. That's actually as much, if not more, armor than many 40 and 45 ton mechs (In fact that Shadow SHD-2D and 2D2 come with a whopping 4.5 and 6.5 tons of armor respectively, at a 55 ton chassis). However, to make the Urbanmech competitive it should have enough armor quirking to make it as rugged as a 40-45 tonner. Then suddenly it's still quite formidable with that kind of protection . . . even with a lower engine cap and dependence on fewer heavy weapons.

The Wolfhound is another fine example. It's not meant to be agile. In TT the Wolfhound is a front line combat mech. Scrap the agility quirks and give it the durability/weapon quirks that make it the front line mech it's meant to be. Even as variants evolve it focuses on improving Firepower without giving up the maxed armor and durability that the chassis carries.

On the other hand, compare the Locust vs. almost any other mech in TT. Its variants evolve for one purpose . . . maneuverability. It should be one of the only mechs in the game that can start and stop on a dime, and cut precision turns at top speed. Nothing should hold a candle to it in that department . . . unless we get the Fireball (seriously, a 400kph "hero" variant exists exclusively for "underground mech racing").

[Ovion]

Sereglach, on 19 October 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

Spoiler

Touching on the things you disagreed with, but for future reference it's easier to respond to quotes with copy/paste of the quote format lines and breaking the quote up, rather than typing in it with boldface. It just makes responding easier, especially since the stuff you're putting within the previous quote doesn't re-quote.

First, I'm not talking about remodeling hardpoint locations, I'm talking hardpoint amounts. Examples: Give the LCT-1V 6B and 1E, the LCT-3V 4B and 2E. Give the SDR-5V an extra 1E in each side torso and the 5D one extra energy hardpoint in the CT. The list goes on, but especially the much older light chassis are really lacking in the hardpoint department vs. more contemporary counterparts.

Sad to say it, but the pre-Firestarter era lights are the ones needing the most help. . . . My beloved Firestarter is considered mediocre in TT, at best, but came into MWO with an average of 8 hardpoints with almost no inflation on any variant. In fact I think only the K received hardpoint inflation.

Secondly, SRM ammo just needs the buff, period. Yes, the mechs helped the most are the light ammo dependant ones, but really SRM's damage -mostly- gets spread out enough that they could use the help in general. Russ has mentioned several times in history that "Ammo quirks are coming" but it hasn't happened . . . so I'm going to presume it's not.

Jump Jets in general still need to be buffed. Yes, it helps other mechs, but the pitiful hoverjets that we have now do NOT afford the agility that mechs should have with them. If they were worthwhile, then people would put more than one on a mech just for quick-turns. JJ Shake and Fall Damage really do quite enough by themselves to inhibit pop-tarting.



Ok, it's been a LONG time, but I've done some digging to try to find where it was mentioned in a townhall about hit registration fixes. This was the best I could muster before I got a headache trying to dig through crap. I can't find the exact quote where Russ stated in a townhall that hit detection really starts to break after 200kph. However, here's what I did find:

- October 2013: MWO patched to new max speed of 170kph due to massive hit registration fixes.

- Sep 2014: MASC considered no-go because mechs will go too fast and break hit registration.

- Dec 2014 - Early 2015: Major hit registration fixes go out.

- April 16, 2015 town hall: MASC engineering is done and it could take mechs (namely mentions the Arctic Cheetah, but realizes he misspoke and that mech can't have MASC) beyond the current 170kph cap. They "MAY" have problems with Flea/Locust speed mechs, so they'll avoid them for now. In the same town hall it's stated that Neema would be working on even more HSR and hit registration fixes in the future.

- June/July 2015: June Townhall announces Neema making MAJOR HSR improvements that revolutionize hit registration and lift a lot of limits. Mech BONE rewinding in HSR creates a huge change that will make a huge difference.

I believe the quote comes in a town hall after this fact. However, next thing I could find without listening to hours and hours of town halls was that Jan/Feb 2016 MASC was getting buffed to further increase speed and agility and it wasn't a major concern on the hit registration side.


Amen, and they can be made to actually compete with the defacto "best" light out there through appropriate quirking of mechs. EMPHASIS NOTE: APPROPRIATE QUIRKING. For example:

One of the primary factors is that, in MWO, base mech armor means next to nothing. Pretty much the first thing anyone does is max out the chassis armor, and only shaves a tiny bit off here or there (especially for lights) to get a rounded tonnage. Let alone the fact that no chassis have any real differentiation in their upper limits; and we have next to no defensive choices for mechs. This becomes exacerbated in lights.

Take the Urbanmech for example. In TT the UM-R60 comes with near max armor (6 tons) for a 30 ton mech. That's actually as much, if not more, armor than many 40 and 45 ton mechs (In fact that Shadow SHD-2D and 2D2 come with a whopping 4.5 and 6.5 tons of armor respectively, at a 55 ton chassis). However, to make the Urbanmech competitive it should have enough armor quirking to make it as rugged as a 40-45 tonner. Then suddenly it's still quite formidable with that kind of protection . . . even with a lower engine cap and dependence on fewer heavy weapons.

The Wolfhound is another fine example. It's not meant to be agile. In TT the Wolfhound is a front line combat mech. Scrap the agility quirks and give it the durability/weapon quirks that make it the front line mech it's meant to be. Even as variants evolve it focuses on improving Firepower without giving up the maxed armor and durability that the chassis carries.

On the other hand, compare the Locust vs. almost any other mech in TT. Its variants evolve for one purpose . . . maneuverability. It should be one of the only mechs in the game that can start and stop on a dime, and cut precision turns at top speed. Nothing should hold a candle to it in that department . . . unless we get the Fireball (seriously, a 400kph "hero" variant exists exclusively for "underground mech racing").

Lotsa stuff basically

I heartily welcome ANY buffs to the Locusts, especially mobility ones that make them more fun.
Effective is good, but I find Locust Effectiveness comes from achieving a sort of.. enjoyment nirvana, where you have discarded everything that you have learned piloting other mechs, to accept the featherweight jetfighter on legs that you are.

As to the Armour thing - This is a simple fix.
Make the Max Armour a mech can take X above stock.
I did see/have figured out a sensible number, (and when it's not 6am, I'm sure it'll come back to me, or someone else will do the math for me), but using just an arbitrary figure of +50% is max.
That changes the entire playing field.
Some mechs can now only take a little to go with their hefty weapon loadouts, or large engine.
Other mechs can take literal tons extra, which makes them more effective brawlers.

This gives a little more flavour between chasis and even (in some cases) variants.

(And even if we got the Fireball, that mech shouldn't turn on a dime or be able to dance like a Locust can - it should have flat missile acceleration, turning should be a bit of a pita, like flying a rocket past the enemy)

Edited by Ovion, 19 October 2016 - 08:47 PM.

[Odanan]

Sereglach, on 19 October 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

Touching on the things you disagreed with, but for future reference it's easier to respond to quotes with copy/paste of the quote format lines and breaking the quote up, rather than typing in it with boldface. It just makes responding easier, especially since the stuff you're putting within the previous quote doesn't re-quote.

First, I'm not talking about remodeling hardpoint locations, I'm talking hardpoint amounts. Examples: Give the LCT-1V 6B and 1E, the LCT-3V 4B and 2E. Give the SDR-5V an extra 1E in each side torso and the 5D one extra energy hardpoint in the CT. The list goes on, but especially the much older light chassis are really lacking in the hardpoint department vs. more contemporary counterparts.

Sad to say it, but the pre-Firestarter era lights are the ones needing the most help. . . . My beloved Firestarter is considered mediocre in TT, at best, but came into MWO with an average of 8 hardpoints with almost no inflation on any variant. In fact I think only the K received hardpoint inflation.

Secondly, SRM ammo just needs the buff, period. Yes, the mechs helped the most are the light ammo dependant ones, but really SRM's damage -mostly- gets spread out enough that they could use the help in general. Russ has mentioned several times in history that "Ammo quirks are coming" but it hasn't happened . . . so I'm going to presume it's not.

Jump Jets in general still need to be buffed. Yes, it helps other mechs, but the pitiful hoverjets that we have now do NOT afford the agility that mechs should have with them. If they were worthwhile, then people would put more than one on a mech just for quick-turns. JJ Shake and Fall Damage really do quite enough by themselves to inhibit pop-tarting.



Ok, it's been a LONG time, but I've done some digging to try to find where it was mentioned in a townhall about hit registration fixes. This was the best I could muster before I got a headache trying to dig through crap. I can't find the exact quote where Russ stated in a townhall that hit detection really starts to break after 200kph. However, here's what I did find:

- October 2013: MWO patched to new max speed of 170kph due to massive hit registration fixes.

- Sep 2014: MASC considered no-go because mechs will go too fast and break hit registration.

- Dec 2014 - Early 2015: Major hit registration fixes go out.

- April 16, 2015 town hall: MASC engineering is done and it could take mechs (namely mentions the Arctic Cheetah, but realizes he misspoke and that mech can't have MASC) beyond the current 170kph cap. They "MAY" have problems with Flea/Locust speed mechs, so they'll avoid them for now. In the same town hall it's stated that Neema would be working on even more HSR and hit registration fixes in the future.

- June/July 2015: June Townhall announces Neema making MAJOR HSR improvements that revolutionize hit registration and lift a lot of limits. Mech BONE rewinding in HSR creates a huge change that will make a huge difference.

I believe the quote comes in a town hall after this fact. However, next thing I could find without listening to hours and hours of town halls was that Jan/Feb 2016 MASC was getting buffed to further increase speed and agility and it wasn't a major concern on the hit registration side.


Amen, and they can be made to actually compete with the defacto "best" light out there through appropriate quirking of mechs. EMPHASIS NOTE: APPROPRIATE QUIRKING. For example:

One of the primary factors is that, in MWO, base mech armor means next to nothing. Pretty much the first thing anyone does is max out the chassis armor, and only shaves a tiny bit off here or there (especially for lights) to get a rounded tonnage. Let alone the fact that no chassis have any real differentiation in their upper limits; and we have next to no defensive choices for mechs. This becomes exacerbated in lights.

Take the Urbanmech for example. In TT the UM-R60 comes with near max armor (6 tons) for a 30 ton mech. That's actually as much, if not more, armor than many 40 and 45 ton mechs (In fact that Shadow SHD-2D and 2D2 come with a whopping 4.5 and 6.5 tons of armor respectively, at a 55 ton chassis). However, to make the Urbanmech competitive it should have enough armor quirking to make it as rugged as a 40-45 tonner. Then suddenly it's still quite formidable with that kind of protection . . . even with a lower engine cap and dependence on fewer heavy weapons.

The Wolfhound is another fine example. It's not meant to be agile. In TT the Wolfhound is a front line combat mech. Scrap the agility quirks and give it the durability/weapon quirks that make it the front line mech it's meant to be. Even as variants evolve it focuses on improving Firepower without giving up the maxed armor and durability that the chassis carries.

On the other hand, compare the Locust vs. almost any other mech in TT. Its variants evolve for one purpose . . . maneuverability. It should be one of the only mechs in the game that can start and stop on a dime, and cut precision turns at top speed. Nothing should hold a candle to it in that department . . . unless we get the Fireball (seriously, a 400kph "hero" variant exists exclusively for "underground mech racing").

This! (for everything)

[Odanan]

Ovion, on 19 October 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

I heartily welcome ANY buffs to the Locusts, especially mobility ones that make them more fun.
Effective is good, but I find Locust Effectiveness comes from achieving a sort of.. enjoyment nirvana, where you have discarded everything that you have learned piloting other mechs, to accept the featherweight jetfighter on legs that you are.

As to the Armour thing - This is a simple fix.
Make the Max Armour a mech can take X above stock.
I did see/have figured out a sensible number, (and when it's not 6am, I'm sure it'll come back to me, or someone else will do the math for me), but using just an arbitrary figure of +50% is max.
That changes the entire playing field.
Some mechs can now only take a little to go with their hefty weapon loadouts, or large engine.
Other mechs can take literal tons extra, which makes them more effective brawlers.

This gives a little more flavour between chasis and even (in some cases) variants.

(And even if we got the Fireball, that mech shouldn't turn on a dime or be able to dance like a Locust can - it should have flat missile acceleration, turning should be a bit of a pita, like flying a rocket past the enemy)

And this.

It's simple: every mech should have a role.

The role of a JagerMech is to stay behind, sniping and laying fire support (sensor range, weapon range, rate of fire quirks and maybe heat quirks), not to take punishment and dance with the enemy (resistance and mobility quirks).

[Odanan]

Here is what I would change in this game right away - most changes are very easy (just the tweak of some value):

• Ammo/ton = +100% the TT values for all weapons.
  
• Max armor based on the stock loadout +X%.
  
• More restrictive max and min engine.
  
• More variation in the number of modules (mechs that are clearly weapon platforms, like the Kitfox and Adder should have more weapon modules - why the hell not?).
  
• Hardpoint revision.
  
• Quirk rebuild from the ground up. Should follow the stock loadout and mech role.
  
• Max heat limit reduced, heat dissipation/second increased (this alone could eliminate the need of Ghost Heat or other mechanics).
  
• Unlock ES and FF in omnimechs (or at least make them dynamic like in battlemechs).
  
• ECM worth for it's 1.5 tons, nothing more. Should only make lock slower. Free ECM for more lighter mechs (in a perfect balance, ECM would be free for every mech, like Beagle is).
  
• Sized hardpoints - small and large (no more aberrations like AC/40 Katapults or AC/20 Ravens).
  
• Decent jumpjets. A Highlander should mount it's 3 jumpjets with pride.
  
• More active weapon balancing.

Basically, we are getting to the point that new mechs are add nothing new (specially if you add 6 variants for each). This game needs to make every mech (and variant) to feel different.


***

The sad thing is: I could do all this and more by myself, here from my computer*. And would work for mech packs. You hear it, PGI: I offer once again my services.

*if someone has any doubt, I was once a pretty accomplished modder, with basic programming, game design, 2D and 3D art skills.

Edited by Odanan, 20 October 2016 - 06:24 PM.