20517 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Brain Cancer, on 16 January 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

This is a limitation only in MWO. Heavy Gauss (and iHGR) can be split-mounted in tabletop just fine between adjacent locations. If MWO actually could follow construction rules, a dual HGR King Crab would indeed be possible. Or dual UAC/20, for that matter.



Who cares what the stock engine is? People will be able to upgrade it, just like the Banshee. Given it's profile, that likely means a 345 engine cap.

The Sagi would be a solid assault but there are more appealing options like the Cerberus that would have a 400 engine cap and can do quad AC10 or quad RAC 5s, maybe even ×2 uac10 & ×2 uac5. Or the Nightstar which offers equally good mounts, a 400 capable variant & a JJ variant with a smaller frontal profile. Although tbh JJ at 95t is more a convenience than an advantage.

[Odanan]

Keshav Murali, on 17 January 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

If you own a BNC-3S, you would know just how much of a {LT-MOB-25}-block it is. And completely takes away the XL option, because 63 kph XL IS mech? Pffft... It's wider than a BNC as well.

Yes, but dat (upcoming) Light Fusion Engine... (I will upgrade all my IS heavy and assault mechs to it).

[ShadowbaneX]

Brain Cancer, on 16 January 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

If MWO actually could follow construction rules, a dual HGR King Crab would indeed be possible. Or dual UAC/20, for that matter.

Who cares what the stock engine is? People will be able to upgrade it, just like the Banshee. Given it's profile, that likely means a 345 engine cap.

I'll give you the Heavy Gauss, but the Improved Heavy Gauss specifically states that it cannot be arm or turret mounted. The King Crab cannot do the IHGR.

As for the engine cap, one of the benefits of the banshee is that 400 XL. Gives it much better handling. Capped at 345/350 is a detriment.

[Karl Streiger]

ShadowbaneX, on 17 January 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

I'll give you the Heavy Gauss, but the Improved Heavy Gauss specifically states that it cannot be arm or turret mounted. The King Crab cannot do the IHGR.

As for the engine cap, one of the benefits of the banshee is that 400 XL. Gives it much better handling. Capped at 345/350 is a detriment.

no not even the Heavy Gauss, not in arms, legs, wings or turrets only front or rear facing
didn't had the Prototype Gauss have the same rules? Need to check War of 39

[ShadowbaneX]

Odanan, on 17 January 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

Yes, but dat (upcoming) Light Fusion Engine... (I will upgrade all my IS heavy and assault mechs to it).

I don't know about all. Anything that can zombie should probably have a standard. If it's got no head or CT energy slots, then, yeah, light fusion engines everywhere. Marauders are the first that come to mind, but there are likely many others. Catapults are good with XLs. Archers and Grasshoppers though...

Karl Streiger, on 17 January 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

no not even the Heavy Gauss, not in arms, legs, wings or turrets only front or rear facing
didn't had the Prototype Gauss have the same rules? Need to check War of 39

That's what I thought but I've only got Sarna as a reference and when I checked I didn't see it. One sec. Ah...there it is, at the top. The Improved version lists it towards the end.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 17 January 2017 - 06:30 AM.

[FLG 01]

TheArisen, on 17 January 2017 - 04:04 AM, said:

The Sagi would be a solid assault but there are more appealing options

That is pretty much why it is overshadowed in the lore and in TT-gaming too. In MWO it is even worse. Think about it: even in 3050-3055 we had some amazing assault Mech options, and now that the 3060ies floodgates are open we have a boatload of extremely good options. "Solid" just does not cut it anymore.

I am not overly happy about it, because it means a number of solid Mechs I like will never see the light of MWO. As a fan of Star League designs I may have a rough time ahead of me. On the other hand, the Lyran in me is more than happy, because this beauty is a good candidate:



Good geometry, good variants, ECM, at least two Hero-Mechs, lore impact - this Mech has it all. Even if the HGR should turn out to be less than optimal, this chassis is worth it.

[Karl Streiger]

FLG 01, on 17 January 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

That is pretty much why it is overshadowed in the lore and in TT-gaming too. In MWO it is even worse. Think about it: even in 3050-3055 we had some amazing assault Mech options, and now that the 3060ies floodgates are open we have a boatload of extremely good options. "Solid" just does not cut it anymore.

until the end of the 4th Edition - were the "founding" of the Saggitaire did happen the Mech was badass, superb city fighter -with its "aimed shots and pulse laser technology" now with the Total Warfare rule its weapons are super accurate but lack range to be really of worth and the targeting computer is a waste of tonnage. frankly, it will run much better with ER Lasers or LPPCs now.

[CK16]

Lets not forget about the 9D

The Medium Pulse Lasers have been traded for Medium Lasers but the Small Pulse Laser and ER PPC remain in place. All the other weapons have been replaced by a pair of LB 10-X autocannons and a C3 Master Computer. The lighter heat load allowed engineers to remove four double heat sinks.

[ShadowbaneX]

The LB/10-X isn't all that useful in MWO though. It does seem to be lacking hands & lower arm actuators so you could fit up to (u)AC/20s. LB/20-Xs or the Heavy Gauss are out though.

I suppose you could manage something like a 285-300 Light Engine, a pair of uAC/20's, with 8 to 10 tons of ammo and 2-4 MLs as backup, and some jump jets to taste. Then again, is a jump jet or two worth losing 5 tons that you'd gain from taking a King Crab?

Actually the Crab could probably manage the same loadout but increase it up to a Light 350 which would manage 61 kph.

[Odanan]

ShadowbaneX, on 17 January 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

I don't know about all. Anything that can zombie should probably have a standard. If it's got no head or CT energy slots, then, yeah, light fusion engines everywhere. Marauders are the first that come to mind, but there are likely many others. Catapults are good with XLs. Archers and Grasshoppers though...

Aren't the LFE the same crit size and disposition of the Clan XL?

[Dettmam]

I will never loose my hope to see the Flashman around!

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 17 January 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

Aren't the LFE the same crit size and disposition of the Clan XL?

ICE 200% weight 6 crits all CT
SFE 100% weight 6 crits all CT
LFE 75% weight 10 crits, 2 LT/RT, 6 CT
iXL 50% weight 12 crits, 3LT/RL, 6 CT
cXL 50% weight 10 crits, 2 LT/RT 6 CT
iXXL 33% weight 18 crits, 6 LT/RT/CT, generate 2/4/6 heat standing/walking/running, double JJ heat upto 6
cXXL 33% weight 14 crits, 4 LT/RT, 6 CT, generate 2/4/6 heat standing/walking/running, double JJ heat upto 6


Long story short XXL's are bad... only slightly usefull on light mechs, but they eat up a ton of crit space..

[ShadowbaneX]

Yes, but if you've got head/CT energy slots you're still in the fight if you lose both side torsos. You can argue how effect you can be with just two MLs vs the saved weight, but I'd at least give it a consideration.

I run my Maraders with Standard engines, but they don't have any hard points in the head/CT, so it's a great candidate for a LFE because if I lose both STs, I'm not much use with no teeth. A Grashopper or an Atlas could have a pair of MLs or MPLs left to fight with even if they've lost both STs though.

[Odanan]

Dettmam, on 17 January 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

I will never loose my hope to see the Flashman around!

o7

I'm afraid that, with the "3060s gates" now opened, the chances of the Flashman in MWO are decreased even more now...

[Dettmam]

Odanan, on 17 January 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

o7

I'm afraid that, with the "3060s gates" now opened, the chances of the Flashman in MWO are decreased even more now...

Sadly...

What about reactive, reflective and steath armor?
Aye or ney?

[Metus regem]

ShadowbaneX, on 17 January 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

Yes, but if you've got head/CT energy slots you're still in the fight if you lose both side torsos. You can argue how effect you can be with just two MLs vs the saved weight, but I'd at least give it a consideration.

I run my Maraders with Standard engines, but they don't have any hard points in the head/CT, so it's a great candidate for a LFE because if I lose both STs, I'm not much use with no teeth. A Grashopper or an Atlas could have a pair of MLs or MPLs left to fight with even if they've lost both STs though.

Zombie builds are highly over rated in the current MWO environment, by the time you are that far gone you are not going to be much help to any one.

If anything LFE's are going to make Hunchbacks (4G), Atlas... pretty much any mech that runs a standard engine (expect for one or two builds) better. Want an AC/20 in your ST but want some weight savings? Run a LFE!

For example a 4G could run a LFE 250+AC/20 (with 3t ammo)+2Mlas+2extra DHS with Endo. So now we have a faster HBK-4G with slightly better cooling thanks to the 250 series engine while running max armour and not giving up any punch.

[Odanan]

Dettmam, on 17 January 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

What about reactive, reflective and steath armor?
Aye or ney?

Possible.

Reflective armor would be a great counter to those laser meta mechs...

Stealth armor could make the target lock very slow (ECM already denies locks in the game), which would be interesting too - but it is even later in the timeline and a little more complex to implement.

[Pariah Devalis]

Dettmam, on 17 January 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

Sadly...

What about reactive, reflective and steath armor?
Aye or ney?

Not Stealth armor, but otherwise yes. Allows for a self balancing mechanic in the game. Energy is the new meta? Take reflective, and laugh. Ballistics? Take ablative. LRMageddon or SRMageddon? Reactive.

Would mean overspecialization in any one given damage type would be a gamble that either would pay off big or fail horribly due to damage reduction. Mixed builds might be more beneficial in that sort of environment since you would always have a workaround against a specific armor type, able to do extra damage with the weapons that counter the armor the enemy has, and standard/ferro armor would be good at everything but not super fantastic against any one damage source.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 January 2017 - 10:06 AM.

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 January 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

Not Stealth armor, but otherwise yes. Allows for a self balancing mechanic in the game. Energy is the new meta? Take reflective, and laugh. Ballistics? Take ablative. LRMageddon or SRMageddon? Reactive.

Would mean overspecialization in any one given damage type would be a gamble that either would pay off big or fail horribly due to damage reduction. Mixed builds might be more beneficial in that sort of environment since you would always have a workaround against a specific armor type, able to do extra damage with the weapons that counter the armor the enemy has, and standard/ferro armor would be good at everything but not super fantastic against any one damage source.

I can see it now, lore builds become the new meta.... ooh that'd be funny.

[Odanan]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 January 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

Not Stealth armor, but otherwise yes. Allows for a self balancing mechanic in the game. Energy is the new meta? Take reflective, and laugh. Ballistics? Take ablative. LRMageddon or SRMageddon? Reactive.

Would mean overspecialization in any one given damage type would be a gamble that either would pay off big or fail horribly due to damage reduction. Mixed builds might be more beneficial in that sort of environment since you would always have a workaround against a specific armor type, able to do extra damage with the weapons that counter the armor the enemy has, and standard/ferro armor would be good at everything but not super fantastic against any one damage source.

This. ^