Karl Streiger, on 23 January 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:
the issue is that this game need a base balance - and this base balance is either Each Mech on its own can stand its ground against anyone else in a 1:1
or its tonnage based
or its mm based
currently, MWO is a soup of all those concepts - reason why the changes will never stop.
Coming from CBT "intro" the game is tonnage based balanced - and i think this is the only base line we should work with. Make the rest secondary stuff like MatchMaking and mission goals.
That the Hankyu with its tiny clown laser is such a danger is already an mistake - resulting in the resolving of convergence - screwing the tonnage based balance even further.
About machine gun well CBT made machine guns "work" with either machine gun arrays (don't think that was a good decision) or fighting infantry (this is a good one - because with the latest rule sets heavy infantry that did dig in is a serious danger to Mechs - in CBT)
the main issue of scout modus is the "symetric" drop weight
if you had the classical 120-140ton recon lance vs the 150-170t pursuit lance things would be complete different.
A truly asymmetric scouting mode would be interesting, but this isn't TT and can't be balanced like TT. PGI made a commitment that every weight class would be viable/valuable for a team to field, and capable of holding their own in combat. Otherwise the game just turns into the same old TT/MW arms race to get into assault mechs. Funny, though, is that if you want a TT form of balance then look at Alpha Strike, where lights are infinitely more valuable then CBT TT and it's reflected in their PV system. MWO could probably learn something from Alpha Strike's kind of balance.
Right now the primary purpose in the game is killing enemy mechs; and lights need to be able to do that, utilizing their own strengths and weaknesses, just as well as any Assault.
Odanan, on 23 January 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:
One suggestion is to add some sort of "Fog of War" to the game, where you need to "open up" the map. Maybe decreasing the max engine cap for mediums would also help, since with the mechlab you can turn most mediums into light-fast mechs.
A Fog of War would be interesting if we actually got the Info Warfare from the old PTS runs (still wondering what happened to that); and it would require the FoW constantly closing in on unscanned areas. However we don't have that, so I don't see that as being a viable method of balance.
On the other hand, I agree heavily with the changes in engine limits. 55 tonners should not be anywhere near as fast as they are, now; and most 50 tonners should be more in line with the Centurion and Hunchback engine limits. I liked the previous suggestion someone had about only allowing engine customization about 5 sizes in either direction from stock (with few exceptions, like the Urbanmech). That would allow certain variants with bigger stock engines to also play a bigger factor. They also need to decouple torso twist/arm movement from engine size and fix it to the chassis.
MWO as a whole needs to be slowed down, with the exception of some lights.
Bishop Steiner, on 23 January 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:
See a problem with that? I'd disagree, as someone who plays that mode a lot. Most people I talk too bemoan the state. But riddle me this.... Aside from stretching the info points about even farther, and shortening the timer, so it becomes MarioKart with Mechs (something most people would find boring too, in the long run), how do you fix it?
It's not that most people don't have a problem with it.... it's just that at this time, nobody seems to have an ANSWER to it.
Put more emphasis on objectives and less on combat, for the scouts, if you want role warfare. Lower the number of intel points (2) with multiple intel nodes at each location, make them worth more, and bring in Info Warfare. Make the game mode far more asymmetrical than it is. Set the scouting drop deck to 2 mechs . . . one when you're defending and one when you're scouting. The Defender is a 40-60 ton mech, while Scouts are 20-45 tons.
Scouts need to lock on -and retain a lock- onto an intel node for 5-20 seconds (subject to balance) to gather all data from the point. Once gathered the Scout who gets the final second collects the point -receiving a large reward- and all other scouts get a large assist bonus. Then the scout either books it to get the intel out or tries to help his allies gather more points. No waiting for a Drop Ship . . . it's just there the whole time, lying in wait and defending its perimeter. Be in the extraction zone for 4 seconds and be removed from the map and enter spectator mode, with points granted to your team.
Defenders get rewards not just for killing scouts, but for forcing the scouts to break lock on info nodes and retreat. Shooting a mech that's locked onto a node stops its 5-20 second intel-gathering countdown for 2-3 seconds (+ any PPC ECM disruption time). They get the biggest rewards for all nodes that fail to be collected.
Make the matches shorter, too. 10 minutes (tops) but preferably closer to 5-7 minutes, to collect the data and get out, which forces a sense of urgency on the part of the scouts. Any scouts who fail to extract with any points they've collected causes neither side to be rewarded the points and c-bills associated with the points. Therefore it imposes more tactical decisions and risk/reward into the game mode.
Granted, pipe-dream balancing thinking, there, but you wanted answers; and I give you answers.
Bishop Steiner, on 23 January 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:
Except that Griffins, Wolverines and Shadowhawks are frequently in command of scout lances across the inner Sphere?
And saying "Scouting is for Lights" is a very inaccurate statement. Lights tend to excel as scouts, because of speed and mobility allowing them to cover great distances ahead of the main force, and retreat. But the use of heavier scouts, especially in known hostile locations, is also pretty common. And if one want's to be "Authentic" oftentimes Scouts work alone, not in lances, too..... (or the lance is spread across a huge swath.)
This also becomes less and less true as the timeline pushes forward, with few exceptions.
Looking at the examples you provide, Shadow Hawks focus more and more on improving firepower and armor over speed and scouting capabilities; and I've never heard of a Griffin as a scout but instead hear of it as a Fire Support mech. The Wolverine was never considered a scout as much as it was a Fast Medium Striker mech. Now, while it did fulfill some lead recon roles earlier in its existence this changes to more and more combat prevalent upgrades as it moves on. However, the Wolverine is probably the only one of those three that I'd say really retained an emphasis on maneuverability and IW type equipment as advancements are made.
Bishop Steiner, on 23 January 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:
I thought the comp teams kind of disproved the Myth that lights can't contribute in the WC, where Lights factored prominently in their matches, and accounted well for themselves, as flankers and harassers, too. Perhaps Lights (and other chassis) should have their rewards tweaked, where for instance, a Light is given a heftier reward for Kill Assists, and MASSIVE ones for NARC or TAG kills/Assists? And Assault Mechs only really see rewards for KMDD and Solo?
Okay, now we're on something we can certainly agree on. Revamping and overhauling the rewards systems to allow all mechs to excel at roles and receive acceptable rewards for achieving them would be a great help to bringing all mechs into a better semblance of balance.
Of course, right now PGI is obsessed with having everything revolve around damage and kills, so until that changes this doesn't mean much.
Edited by Sereglach, 23 January 2017 - 03:38 PM.
111
