20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 May 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

It does, but role seems to have been ignored in some cases. The sluggishness of the Spirit Bear is just mind boggling, for a mech purely intended as an in your face fighter.

It's a 100 tons mech. At least it can move fast (big engine + MASC).

PS; have you tried putting a lot of skill points in the Mobility Tree?

[Odanan]

BTW, if you guys missed, there is a new IIC hero pack.

Not the mech pack I was waiting for... :/

At least, now every mech in the game will have it's hero counterpart.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 20 May 2017 - 03:47 AM, said:

BTW, if you guys missed, there is a new IIC hero pack.

Not the mech pack I was waiting for... :/

At least, now every mech in the game will have it's hero counterpart.

My only issue is with one unit, the name on the Orion IIC hero, Clan Wolf as far as lore goes, has never had anything to do with old Norse mythology or language, that's more of a Ghost Bear thing....

[SuperFunkTron]

Imperius, on 19 May 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

Anyway the Engine Decoupling needs to be reverted. Not really wanting to crusade for it, so hopefully the feedback is received and rolled back by the next patch date. Ive tweeted and posted here on the forums in various skill tree threads. I'll give one update cycle!

I hope for the exact opposite of this.
Some minor tweaking and adjusting mechs that are in dire need of it is fine, but there is no need to throw the away a system that creates more diversity in mech abilities just because some of our favorite mechs don't perform like before. The Dire Wolf finally is a viable option against a Kodiak again, and that is something that needs to stay!

[FLG 01]

Metus regem, on 20 May 2017 - 04:47 AM, said:

My only issue is with one unit, the name on the Orion IIC hero, Clan Wolf as far as lore goes, has never had anything to do with old Norse mythology or language, that's more of a Ghost Bear thing....

PGI is rather lazy when it comes to the lore of its hero Mechs. They often take some notable pilots from a TRO and then invent something without taking the actual TRO-entry of this pilot into acount.

Dale Sandstrom and Bill Wilkes, the heroes of the Javelin and the Assassin e.g., are both from the 3rd Succession War. And still their Mechs are lavishly equipped with LosTech, although virtually noone had it at the time or knew how it worked (except ComStar and WD). Wilkes and Sandstrom would not have survived a year piloting their Mechs, because they would have been hunted down by every single intelligence agency, especially ROM.
This deviation from lore is unnecessary imo. PGI could have given them IntroTech-level Mechs which still work in MWO thanks to our MechLab.

If PGI put a little more effort into research, they'd often find good opportunities for hero Mechs, but they seem to prefer the easy route. ...which is strange, considering they have an extremely dedicated and knowledgable community. Many here would be willing to help researching.

Edited by FLG 01, 20 May 2017 - 07:29 AM.

[Imperius]

SuperFunkTron, on 20 May 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

I hope for the exact opposite of this.
Some minor tweaking and adjusting mechs that are in dire need of it is fine, but there is no need to throw the away a system that creates more diversity in mech abilities just because some of our favorite mechs don't perform like before. The Dire Wolf finally is a viable option against a Kodiak again, and that is something that needs to stay!

Bigger engine meant more speed/ turn and less weapons that was the accepted tradeoff. Engine decoupling is just a flat HEAVY HANDED nerf to assaults that didn't need to be nerfed again!

[Sereglach]

FLG 01, on 20 May 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

PGI is rather lazy when it comes to the lore of its hero Mechs. They often take some notable pilots from a TRO and then invent something without taking the actual TRO-entry of this pilot into acount.

Dale Sandstrom and Bill Wilkes, the heroes of the Javelin and the Assassin e.g., are both from the 3rd Succession War. And still their Mechs are lavishly equipped with LosTech, although virtually noone had it at the time or knew how it worked (except ComStar and WD). Wilkes and Sandstrom would not have survived a year piloting their Mechs, because they would have been hunted down by every single intelligence agency, especially ROM.
This deviation from lore is unnecessary imo. PGI could have given them IntroTech-level Mechs which still work in MWO thanks to our MechLab.

If PGI put a little more effort into research, they'd often find good opportunities for hero Mechs, but they seem to prefer the easy route. ...which is strange, considering they have an extremely dedicated and knowledgable community. Many here would be willing to help researching.

There was actually a big stink about this several years ago when people where throwing a fit over getting heroes that were "terrible and unoptimized". People were very unhappy about having to buy a hero with MC, and then throw in Endo, DHS, new engines, etc. to make them competitive. I believe it really hit around the time of the first Project Phoenix heroes (Sparky was particularly complained about since it didn't even come with DHS as an energy boat). PGI actually listened to that and made the heroes . . . even if derived from lore . . . equipped with the newest and best tech available, thereby making them more "optimized".

That's why you get the heroes that you get. It has nothing to do with lore (albeit the premise of the mech will still be derived from lore edit addendum: when possible) and has more to do with giving people a mech they feel better about spending MC on.

Edited by Sereglach, 20 May 2017 - 08:56 AM.

[Requiemking]

Imperius, on 20 May 2017 - 07:37 AM, said:

Bigger engine meant more speed/ turn and less weapons that was the accepted tradeoff. Engine decoupling is just a flat HEAVY HANDED nerf to assaults that didn't need to be nerfed again!

Um, are you sure your alright? Assault/Heavy agility is widely regarded as one of the biggest balancing headaches to ever affect the game, and engine sync was the entire reason it was a problem. Prior to this patch, a Kodiak with a near max engine could, I kid you not, turn faster than a Light mech could circle it. That's not a good thing. Besides, we are all well aware of the real reason you want engine sync back.

[Imperius]

Requiemking, on 20 May 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

Um, are you sure your alright? Assault/Heavy agility is widely regarded as one of the biggest balancing headaches to ever affect the game, and engine sync was the entire reason it was a problem. Prior to this patch, a Kodiak with a near max engine could, I kid you not, turn faster than a Light mech could circle it. That's not a good thing. Besides, we are all well aware of the real reason you want engine sync back.

I should be able to turn you attempting to circle me! Your job is to use your speed and terrain to get behind me without me noticing you. Not b-line at me and initiate I'm your typical bad light pilot here getting ready to run into everything as I circle an assault hoping he don't shoot me!

Fun fact I still kill those lights after these heavy handed nerfs! Still doesn't change the fact the engine decoupling is one of the worst changes in the game since 3rd person and group tonnage limits!

[FLG 01]

Sereglach, on 20 May 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

That's why you get the heroes that you get. It has nothing to do with lore (albeit the premise of the mech will still be derived from lore edit addendum: when possible) and has more to do with giving people a mech they feel better about spending MC on.

This means PGI has to take even greater care regarding the choice of their heroes. They have to find a hero Mech filled with SL-era Tech.
I don't mind if they come up with their own non-canon hero, but I do mind if they violate the canon by giving 3rd SW-era pilots Mechs that would make the ComGuards envious. It is just an unnecessary violation and an easily avoidable one.

In case of the Assassin it would have been extremely easy actually, since the few surviving Assassins of 3052 were almost all heirlooms, usually modified as we are told (TRO:3050U) - the perfect opportunity to create a plausible, lore-friendly hero. (Still non-canon but at least not anti-canon). But no, they took a pilot who died in 3033 and had zero SL-tech on his Mech. It is certainly no surprise to me that we did not see a nice lore write-up by Randall Bills for that...

Edited by FLG 01, 20 May 2017 - 09:11 AM.

[SuperFunkTron]

Imperius, on 20 May 2017 - 07:37 AM, said:

Bigger engine meant more speed/ turn and less weapons that was the accepted tradeoff. Engine decoupling is just a flat HEAVY HANDED nerf to assaults that didn't need to be nerfed again!

Could you explain the flat nature of these nerfs? Gargoyle and Warhawk have great mobility for assaults even before upgrades. Their larger engines and lore related mobility seem to have made it in. Also, the Direwolf finally being given a chance to perform against other assaults hardly seems like an unfair move. Some tweaks may be made, but the only thing heavy handed here is your assertion about the decoupling being bad.

[Requiemking]

Imperius, on 20 May 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

I should be able to turn you attempting to circle me! Your job is to use your speed and terrain to get behind me without me noticing you. Not b-line at me and initiate I'm your typical bad light pilot here getting ready to run into everything as I circle an assault hoping he don't shoot me!

Fun fact I still kill those lights after these heavy handed nerfs! Still doesn't change the fact the engine decoupling is one of the worst changes in the game since 3rd person and group tonnage limits!

Ah, but the Assault doesn't need to be able to turn faster than the Light can circle it. It's pilot simply needs to have enough brainpower to start counter-turning and to look for the nearest wall to press his back against.

[Imperius]

Requiemking, on 20 May 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

Ah, but the Assault doesn't need to be able to turn faster than the Light can circle it. It's pilot simply needs to have enough brainpower to start counter-turning and to look for the nearest wall to press his back against.

The light pilot has enough crutches to play their mech improperly.

SuperFunkTron, on 20 May 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

Could you explain the flat nature of these nerfs? Gargoyle and Warhawk have great mobility for assaults even before upgrades. Their larger engines and lore related mobility seem to have made it in. Also, the Direwolf finally being given a chance to perform against other assaults hardly seems like an unfair move. Some tweaks may be made, but the only thing heavy handed here is your assertion about the decoupling being bad.

I currently pretty much only play only the dire wolf it's garbage from its original in inception!

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 20 May 2017 - 03:37 AM, said:

It's a 100 tons mech. At least it can move fast (big engine + MASC).

PS; have you tried putting a lot of skill points in the Mobility Tree?

Yes, I have. Top speed doesn't matter near as much for brawling as does accel/decel and twist.

[CK16]

Most assaults benefited from the engine desync. Except the Kodiak....Specially the Spirit Bear (honestly wondering if this was a mistake?) Some are even way better. Warhawk is seeing some life again. And Exe's oh my....thing is an animal now. She moves like a medium o.O and Direwolf is now not ad at all. Turns better..

Engine desync is fine, and sure they can and will tweek mechs as needed. Also larger engine would not make you turn slower or faster that's all on the gearing and adjustments to your joints brakes ect. Hell even a large engine can't make you accelerate faster if you have a crappy geared transmission.

Edited by CK16, 20 May 2017 - 10:11 AM.

[Imperius]

It doesn't turn better trust me I'd know!

[Juodas Varnas]

CK16, on 20 May 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

Most assaults benefited from the engine desync. Except the Kodiak....Specially the Spirit Bear (honestly wondering if this was a mistake?) Some are even way better.

Try using the Atlas. It's also slow, in addition to being as maneuverable as a building. Pretty sure, of ALL mechs it got screwed the most, relative to how it performed pre-patch.

[CK16]

Maybe. But let's be honest. Speed had been power creeped pretty hard since the clans came. So maybe taming Mech mobility isn't such a bad thing, with in reason. Game didn't feel to mech like things were to agile imo.

[Imperius]

CK16, on 20 May 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

Maybe. But let's be honest. Speed had been power creeped pretty hard since the clans came. So maybe taming Mech mobility isn't such a bad thing, with in reason. Game didn't feel to mech like things were to agile imo.

Where did I say i wanted to go faster? 52.3KPH is pretty damn slow...

[Juodas Varnas]

CK16, on 20 May 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

Maybe. But let's be honest. Speed had been power creeped pretty hard since the clans came. So maybe taming Mech mobility isn't such a bad thing, with in reason. Game didn't feel to mech like things were to agile imo.

The speed was power creeping yes.

But only on one of the factions.
IS mechs kinda stayed slow.

The thing is, i would not mind low agility on the mechs. If it applied to ALL mechs and not this... "Dartboard of balance" thing we've got going on. The way it is now, with some 95 ton mechs (like the executioner) out-maneuvering mechs half their weight.
I also think that the whole engine-agility decoupling completely was... misguided.
Instead, i think engines SHOULD have effect on the mech's agility, but it should not be the ONLY thing that affects it.
In my opinion, both the mech's weight AND the engine in use should have affected it.
But you know... Too little, too late.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 20 May 2017 - 10:56 AM.