20517 replies to this topic

[SuperFunkTron]

I believe the nova cat is supposed to be much more agile if I recall correctly. Maybe someone else can confirm that for us.

[Metus regem]

SuperFunkTron, on 28 July 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

I believe the nova cat is supposed to be much more agile if I recall correctly. Maybe someone else can confirm that for us.

On the table top, the Nova Cat is a 4/6 with out JJ's, it's not really known as overly nimble... so I would expect something along the lines of a Clan Warhammer.

Edited by Metus regem, 28 July 2017 - 02:23 PM.

[Odanan]

SuperFunkTron, on 28 July 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

I believe the nova cat is supposed to be much more agile if I recall correctly. Maybe someone else can confirm that for us.

In TT Nova Cat is as agile as the Night Gyr (and any other 4/6 mech, like the Banshee, Cyclops, Battlemaster, Grasshopper. Panther, Vindiacator, etc.) and none was never described as extremely slow. Extremely slow is Annihilator and UrbanMech.

[Odanan]

Requiemking, on 28 July 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

Absolutely not. Not unless CGL canonizes it as its own mech, seperate from the real Hellhound.

Canonizing the MW4 Hellhound is a reason alone to release it in MWO. The original Conjurer is a very uninspired design.

[Zergling]

About all the MW4 Hellhound had in common with the TT Hellhound was the name and tonnage though. In everything else it was different mech.

[TheArisen]

Nema Nabojiv, on 28 July 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

I see, thanks. Just being worried that Nova Cat might have same mobility.

Yeah the NGyr is a top mech but not for it's mobility. NoCat will be the same but 5 tons lighter.

[Requiemking]

Odanan, on 28 July 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

Canonizing the MW4 Hellhound is a reason alone to release it in MWO. The original Conjurer is a very uninspired design.

It's supposed to be. It's a IIC mech in everything but name. IIC mechs are uninspired designs as a rule.

[Metus regem]

Requiemking, on 28 July 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

It's supposed to be. It's a IIC mech in everything but name. IIC mechs are uninspired designs as a rule.

The Conjurer is a IIC, it had a name change after the whole "not named clan" shenanigans...

[SuperFunkTron]

A jump back to a few pages ago and my grossly late discovery of the Locust. I enjoyed the locust champion so much that I bought the Pirates Bane and have been nothing but impressed. It's a whole different type of warfare at this size and speed!

Other than the Piranha and Fire Moth, is there a chance of any other stupidly fast mechs with similar agility that we could look forward to on the clan side?

[Requiemking]

SuperFunkTron, on 30 July 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

A jump back to a few pages ago and my grossly late discovery of the Locust. I enjoyed the locust champion so much that I bought the Pirates Bane and have been nothing but impressed. It's a whole different type of warfare at this size and speed!

Other than the Piranha and Fire Moth, is there a chance of any other stupidly fast mechs with similar agility that we could look forward to on the clan side?

No. Clans, despite their abnormal insistence on making mechs go as fast as possible, were more inclined to make their Lights carry as much firepower/armor as possible. Fast mechs were something of a rarity at that weight bracket.

[SuperFunkTron]

Requiemking, on 30 July 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

No. Clans, despite their abnormal insistence on making mechs go as fast as possible, were more inclined to make their Lights carry as much firepower/armor as possible. Fast mechs were something of a rarity at that weight bracket.

So that means that the Phantom is a must with its base 151 kph is a must for the Clanners in the near future unless we PGI finds a way to squeeze the Fire Moth into the game. The Piranha would be alright too, I guess.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Odanan, on 28 July 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

If the 1 mech/month system returns, I want to see something like this:

August: Fire Moth - Clan, 20 tons (or, if not technically possible, Piranha, even if I'm afraid 10+ MGs would be OP).
September: Argus - IS, 60 tons (I would prefer the Crusader, but the 60 tons bracket actually needs more options)
October: Blood Asp - Clan, 90 tons
November: Wasp - IS, 20 tons
December: Rifleman IIC - Clan, 65 tons
January: Fafnir - IS, 100 tons (only left this for the last because IS got 2 assaults in a roll)
February: MW4's Hellhound - Clan, 50 tons (replaceable by the Black Lanner)
March: Chimera - IS, 40 tons (or Hellspawn)


I don't think PGI has 2d and 3d artists exclusive for making objects for maps. Otherwise, what they are doing all this time?
Mappers, on the other hand, are completely separated roles (and the last time I checked, they had 2).

I think they are saving the Blood Asp for the big December mech announcement, since it's Paul's favorite pet mech and a fairly popular one at that. I think the RFL-IIC is going to get in around September or October when the games population might settle down for a bit from summer (due to back to school/college and other things). That is, if we are still assuming that we are going with the one mech a month type of deal. I personally hope PGI does something different for once and tries out a 1 IS and 1 Clan mechpack per month.

Requiemking, on 28 July 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

It's supposed to be. It's a IIC mech in everything but name. IIC mechs are uninspired designs as a rule.

Clan IIC's mechs are supposed to be completely new mech designs in the Battletech universe, but play homage to their IS cousin counterparts that they were originally inspired from. I think it's more or less the community that looks down upon them for their namesake. Uninspired designs is kind of a long stretch, since most IIC mechs can be completely taken out of their given roles and perform exceptionally well outside the box. Perhaps if the IIC label wasn't there, maybe the clan IIC's would have more popularity for them in the clan department. Yet again, their original purposes were to serve as second line battlemechs (but still can perform better than the front line omnimechs ironically).

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 30 July 2017 - 03:31 PM.

[Odanan]

Arnold The Governator, on 30 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

I think they are saving the Blood Asp for the big December mech announcement, since it's Paul's favorite pet mech and a fairly popular one at that. I think the RFL-IIC is going to get in around September or October when the games population might settle down for a bit from summer (due to back to school/college and other things). That is, if we are still assuming that we are going with the one mech a month type of deal. I personally hope PGI does something different for once and tries out a 1 IS and 1 Clan mechpack per month.

1 IS & 1 Clan per month would be very cool.

Arnold The Governator, on 30 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Clan IIC's mechs are supposed to be completely new mech designs in the Battletech universe, but play homage to their IS cousin counterparts that they were originally inspired from. I think it's more or less the community that looks down upon them for their namesake. Uninspired designs is kind of a long stretch, since most IIC mechs can be completely taken out of their given roles and perform exceptionally well outside the box. Perhaps if the IIC label wasn't there, maybe the clan IIC's would have more popularity for them in the clan department. Yet again, their original purposes were to serve as second line battlemechs (but still can perform better than the front line omnimechs ironically).

An interesting thing is: Clan IIC mechs are not known as IIC by the Clans, meaning a Marauder IIC is called "Marauder" by the Clanners.
And those mechs outperform omnimechs only in video games with mechlabs. They are usually inferior in TT (many have Std. Engine, for instance), even if you don't consider the versatility of the omnimechs (that can swap omnipods according to the mission).

[Odanan]

SuperFunkTron, on 30 July 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

So that means that the Phantom is a must with its base 151 kph is a must for the Clanners in the near future unless we PGI finds a way to squeeze the Fire Moth into the game. The Piranha would be alright too, I guess.

Yes, Phantom is the faster omnimech (beside the Fire Moth), but many battlemechs could be as fast of even faster (thanks to mechlab).

Piranha (20 tons) and Incubus (30 tons) are examples of light battlemechs that start with the same speed of 151 km/h.

[TheArisen]

SuperFunkTron, on 30 July 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

A jump back to a few pages ago and my grossly late discovery of the Locust. I enjoyed the locust champion so much that I bought the Pirates Bane and have been nothing but impressed. It's a whole different type of warfare at this size and speed!

Other than the Piranha and Fire Moth, is there a chance of any other stupidly fast mechs with similar agility that we could look forward to on the clan side?

The Locust IIC comes with a 200 at 25t and is a battlemech so it would be able to break 150 easily.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Locust_IIC

The Solitaire has a base speed of 162 kph
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Solitaire

Icestorm is a 25t omni with a 300xl, 190 kph....
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Icestorm

Bear Cub, same as Locust IIC
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bear_Cub

Incubus comes with a 270xl, 151kph and it's a Bmech so it could be even faster
http://www.sarna.net.../Incubus_(Vixen)

Spirit, 35t Bmech, 245xl stock so it'd be able to upgrade and hit 160+
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Spirit

Horned Owl, 35t Bmech, same speed as a Firestarter.
http://www.sarna.net..._Owl_(Peregrine)

[Valdarion Silarius]

Odanan, on 30 July 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

An interesting thing is: Clan IIC mechs are not known as IIC by the Clans, meaning a Marauder IIC is called "Marauder" by the Clanners.
And those mechs outperform omnimechs only in video games with mechlabs. They are usually inferior in TT (many have Std. Engine, for instance), even if you don't consider the versatility of the omnimechs (that can swap omnipods according to the mission).

That really depends on what stock IIC variant you are fielding in table top. The Warhammer IIC Prime has been considered to be an excellent mech from others in it's stock configuration, since it runs a clan standard engine and has 20 DHS's to keep most of it's weapons from overheating. The Rifleman IIC Prime was actually banned from tourneys for being a cheese mech for how powerful it was in it's stock prime configuration. It's only downsides was it's speed (which is supplemented with jump jets) and it's heat build up if players had a tendency to alpha it. I haven't heard many bad things from players that ran the IIC mechs in their stock configurations as from here:

http://bg.battletech...hp?topic=1534.0

http://bg.battletech...1&topic=50397.0

http://bg.battletech...p?topic=54808.0

http://bg.battletech...p?topic=47273.0

I'm not 100% sure with TT rules, but I thought the same rules with clan standard engine durability applies from table top as well in the video games. The only real TT experience I had was from Table Top Simulator, where I ran a stock RFL-IIC against a stock WHM-IIC that my friend was playing. He would normally whoop my *** where I would get lucky with cockpit head shots every so often, lol. I did a few custom campaigns in a stock IS Catapult as well on TT sim.

So yeah, I guess the clan omnimechs would have more value in campaign missions on table top, but depending on what mission you are doing I can see some IIC stock mechs being more attractive when factors such as overall C-Bill costs and pilot skill rating (a 4/5 clan pilot in a RFL-IIC can do exceptionally well against higher skilled pilots) come into play.

[Requiemking]

Arnold The Governator, on 30 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Clan IIC's mechs are supposed to be completely new mech designs in the Battletech universe, but play homage to their IS cousin counterparts that they were originally inspired from. I think it's more or less the community that looks down upon them for their namesake. Uninspired designs is kind of a long stretch, since most IIC mechs can be completely taken out of their given roles and perform exceptionally well outside the box. Perhaps if the IIC label wasn't there, maybe the clan IIC's would have more popularity for them in the clan department. Yet again, their original purposes were to serve as second line battlemechs (but still can perform better than the front line omnimechs ironically).

Erm, IIC's are simply IS mechs upgraded to Clan standards. Thats it. They never were anything more than that. The quality of the individual variants was of little meaning because again, they are just IS mechs upgraded to modern Clan standard. Hell, the Rifleman IIC wouldn't even exist if Clan's had won Tukayyid.

[CycKath]

Requiemking, on 30 July 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

Hell, the Rifleman IIC wouldn't even exist if Clan's had won Tukayyid.

Um....

[Valdarion Silarius]

Requiemking, on 30 July 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

Erm, IIC's are simply IS mechs upgraded to Clan standards. Thats it. They never were anything more than that. The quality of the individual variants was of little meaning because again, they are just IS mechs upgraded to modern Clan standard. Hell, the Rifleman IIC wouldn't even exist if Clan's had won Tukayyid.

Um.....



The Rifleman IIC's production year for the general clans was 2845. The Battle of Tukayyid didn't take place until May of 3052.

[Brain Cancer]

Odanan, on 24 July 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

That list alone makes a great point for the reduction of the Heavy Gauss and LBX/20 critical size in 1.

No. Once again, it makes a great point for PGI to hire someone capable of building a MWO construction system that can keep up with TT rules. If a fanmade thing like Solaris Skunkwerks can perform easily what PGI fails at, then they're literally inferior to amateur Java programmers.

Get split-crits working. Anything less just points to PGI's continued failure at understanding what is supposedly their own coding.

Requiemking, on 30 July 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

Erm, IIC's are simply IS mechs upgraded to Clan standards. Thats it. They never were anything more than that. The quality of the individual variants was of little meaning because again, they are just IS mechs upgraded to modern Clan standard. Hell, the Rifleman IIC wouldn't even exist if Clan's had won Tukayyid.

No. Those are (name) (C), like the Archer C, not (name) IIC like the Phoenix Hawk IIC (which happens to be 80 TONS, not 45).